Brexit deal

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. You give a one-word answer 'No', and then go on to confirm what I suggested!

[pib]

Do you actually live in the real world.?

I know several young people like you describe and iPhones aside, they don’t have new cars nor go on expensive holidays, and saving for a mortgage deposit is very difficult, never mind getting a mortgage approved..

I saved up for everything I've got on a joe bloggs wage packet. The problem with the majority of the youth is that they want everything now. I work in a company where three youngsters around 19-20 years of wage passed their test and went straight into brand new motors on pcp. The age of buying an old mini with the door hanging off for a monkey for your first motor has gone.

What a load of tosh. No doubt there are some people like that but you can't tar "the majority of youth" with the same brush as 3 people at your work.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No BB

It's not the result of future "uncertainty".

There IS uncertainty in the economic consequences of Brexit because we don't know what sort of Brexit we'll have. But it's not that uncertainty that is causing the economic slowdown.

The slowdown is the result of considered predictions of the LIKELIHOOD of what is going to happen.

The uncertainty is in whether the economic effect of leaving will be bad, very bad or catastrophic.

You seem to live in a world where, because we cannot predict precisely what will happen in the future, we shouldn't make any attempt to estimate what will happen.

How do you go about crossing the road? Surely you can't be certain that some idiot won't come round the corner at 100mph and wipe you out?

[Bentley Bullet]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Yes. If you insist. It is just like that.

[wilts rover]

Considering we haven't even left the EU yet, is the present financial situation more a result of future uncertainty than an actual effect of Brexit?

Nah it's Corbyn's fault. I read it on here ages ago.....

[SydneyRover]

Re-read the posts over the last couple of pages and one can easily see the tenuous grip on reality that brexiters have with desperate posts no links to credible sources and arguments just for the sake of it. Apologies if this post sounds a little condescending but if you don't believe me read the posts.

[Axholme Lion]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

I believe many remainers want Britain to fail so they can say 'I told you so'. If people had started from a position of wanting Britain to succeed rather than rubbishing the nation at every verse end, and telling us how much we need the EU things may have been better. The EU have sensed the weakness and division in Britain and used it to their advantage.
The result should have been accepted and everyone should have pulled together, instead of the treacherous sabotage of the likes of the vile Gina Miller and her big business cronies. Such people do not care a jot about the British working class.

[Boomstick]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

I believe many remainers want Britain to fail so they can say 'I told you so'. If people had started from a position of wanting Britain to succeed rather than rubbishing the nation at every verse end, and telling us how much we need the EU things may have been better. The EU have sensed the weakness and division in Britain and used it to their advantage.
The result should have been accepted and everyone should have pulled together, instead of the treacherous sabotage of the likes of the vile Gina Miller and her big business cronies. Such people do not care a jot about the British working class.

NAIL ON HEAD .

Remoaners bleet on about treason. But I say it's THEM that's being treasonous by trying to derail brexit. Much more damaging.

I said along time ago, this is a time when we should all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

[Hounslowrover]

Gina Miller went to court to ensure Article 50 was enacted by Parliament, the law of the land upheld her case.  The definition of sabotage now apparently includes using the laws of the land to uphold the sovereignty of Parliament, that's why it's so hard to understand what Brexiteers are arguing from when they misrepresent what happened, it's called a fact.

[idler]

I voted to leave because I didn't want to be part of a federal Europe although reluctant to leave many of the other benefits behind.
I have not seen any politician on the leave side look remotely capable of managing any sort of deal acceptable or workable to most people.
I have lost all faith in most politicians and their childish antics.
The Russian money and Facebook scandal coupled with the antics of Putin and Trump leave us needing as many allies as possible. That is financially and politically. I would now like to see us stay in the EU and fight any changes not acceptable to us from the inside.
We have now wasted more than two years on this shambles, let's move quickly to put things right.

[Bentley Bullet]

If the EU want us to stay in why haven't they offered us changes to make remaining more acceptable already?

[The Red Baron]

If the EU want us to stay in why haven't they offered us changes to make remaining more acceptable already?

There are some amongst the Remainers who think that deciding to stay in, whether via a Referendum or via Parliament calling the whole thing off, should be a prelude to us renegotiating the terms of our membership.

I'd have thought the last two years prove that to be as big a delusional fantasy as anything peddled by hard Brexiteers. If we stay in, we accept the EU warts and all, and if we're lucky we might retain some of the concessions we already have - eg staying out of the Euro and keeping the rebate.

The time for attempts at renegotiation surely ended with Cameron's half-hearted attempts before 2016.

[IDM]

I think idler has made a very good point..  voting to leave on a matter of principle and then being let down by the politicians..

I agree it is better to stay in and argue our case as part of the club..

Does that make idler a remoaner.?  Not in my book it doesn’t, it’s an honest appraisal of the unfortunate reality we are now faced with..

[Axholme Lion]

Gina Miller went to court to ensure Article 50 was enacted by Parliament, the law of the land upheld her case.  The definition of sabotage now apparently includes using the laws of the land to uphold the sovereignty of Parliament, that's why it's so hard to understand what Brexiteers are arguing from when they misrepresent what happened, it's called a fact.

So you're telling me that Gina Miller and her millionaire chums are concerned for the welfare of the average British worker? All the likes of that lot are concerned with is how little they get away with paying us, or employ an eastern European instead. That's one thing they got right in the Russian revolution sorting the likes of her!

[Hounslowrover]

She wants to in the EU which protects workers' rights, leaving will lead to deregulation of the ordinary workers' rights. What about the fact you called her lawful pursuit sabotage?

[SydneyRover]

Gina Miller went to court to ensure Article 50 was enacted by Parliament, the law of the land upheld her case.  The definition of sabotage now apparently includes using the laws of the land to uphold the sovereignty of Parliament, that's why it's so hard to understand what Brexiteers are arguing from when they misrepresent what happened, it's called a fact.

So you're telling me that Gina Miller and her millionaire chums are concerned for the welfare of the average British worker? All the likes of that lot are concerned with is how little they get away with paying us, or employ an eastern European instead. That's one thing they got right in the Russian revolution sorting the likes of her!

Gina Miller

She has been a leading campaigner against hidden charges in pensions and investment and what she has described as "flagrant mis-selling within the asset management market". She set up Miller Philanthropy (now rebranded the True and Fair Foundation) in 2009, and established MoneyShe.com in 2014, as a female-focused investment brand.[10][15]

True and Fair Campaign
In January 2012,[19][25] she set up the True and Fair Campaign, with the stated aim to "limit the possibility of future mis-selling or financial scandals through greater transparency."[17] This initiative attracted the animosity of part of the City, earning her the nickname of "black widow spider".[20] She reported being called "a disgrace [whose] lobbying efforts would bring down the entire City",[16] and the Daily Mail reported that she had been criticised because her firm SCM had not disclosed the size of the fund it is managing for its clients.[26][27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Miller


How selfish can you get eh.

[Axholme Lion]

She wants to in the EU which protects workers' rights, leaving will lead to deregulation of the ordinary workers' rights. What about the fact you called her lawful pursuit sabotage?

She was a front for big business trying to throw a spanner in the works.

[Pancho Regan]

If the EU want us to stay in why haven't they offered us changes to make remaining more acceptable already?

Because our Prime Minister has made it clear to them from Day 1 that "The people have spoken" and "Brexit means Brexit".

[foxbat]

The Prime minister is like an alcoholic in denial , and need s to face reality.
how many times does she have to be told ?

Theresa May does not have many cards to play as she approaches next week’s crunch Commons vote on her Brexit deal. One of the few to hand is the argument that British business supports the draft pact she has signed with the EU. However, things are not as positive as the prime minister and her advisers might like.

The Harvard report, based on interviews with small and medium-sized businesses, academics and trade associations, takes a different view. It suggests that a lot of SMEs are much less enthusiastic about the May deal than is the CBI.
As the Harvard report says: “Most companies want more detail, less uncertainty, and a greater guarantee of future proximity to the EU than the government’s proposals offer.”

It says that for most companies “the May deal is inferior to remaining in the EU or moving more decisively to a much closer relationship with the EU that includes continued participation in the Single Market and flexible access to EU skills and labour”.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The fact that people on here think that their fellow countrymen WANT the country to fail shows the pit that we are in.

It is an appalling state of affairs and deeply depressing.

Of COURSE I don't want the f**king country to fail. What a stupid thing to think. If there was any way that we could leave the EU and be a happier, fairer and stronger country, I'd jump at it. No one has given any indication how any of that is possible. The hole that we're in now is so deep that it's a question of finding the least bad way out.

Beyond belief that people genuinely think that we want the country to fail so we can say "told you so."

Grow up.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Are you suggesting that an organisation of nearly 500 million should make fundamental changes because of the attitudes of 17 million people, many of whom don't actually seem to know what it does?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think idler has made a very good point..  voting to leave on a matter of principle and then being let down by the politicians..

I agree it is better to stay in and argue our case as part of the club..

Does that make idler a remoaner.?  Not in my book it doesn’t, it’s an honest appraisal of the unfortunate reality we are now faced with..

Except the real let down by politicians wasn't the one AFTER the vote (as inept as that has been).

It was the politicians BEFORE the vote, beguiling people into thinking that we could leave the EU AND be richer, safer, happier.

It was bullshit from Day 1, peddled by bas**rds with a history of bullshitting, from Farage, through Johnson, Gove, Fox and Redwood.

A bunch of lying shysters, the lot of them. Everything they said was lies from Turkey joining the EU, to the £350m claim, to the deal that we could demand, to the insistence that experts who pointed out their lies were bent.

They whipped up expectations that could never be satisfied and we're all paying for it now.

Whatever the final outcome, we are a more fractured society as a result of their egos, ambitions and f**king stupidity and that will take decades to correct.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB

Are you suggesting that an organisation of nearly 500 million should make fundamental changes because of the attitudes of 17 million people, many of whom don't actually seem to know what it does?

No BST, I'm suggesting the EU should make changes to make it more possible so that 63 million people - more than 13% of the EU membership, may decide to stay.

[Axholme Lion]

BB

Are you suggesting that an organisation of nearly 500 million should make fundamental changes because of the attitudes of 17 million people, many of whom don't actually seem to know what it does?

Don't take this the wrong way, but who are the likes of Malta, Luxembourg, Lithuania and the rest to dictate too us?
Some pay in and some take out...

[IDM]

Why should Scotland and Wales have a say in the parliament which looks after England.?

[Muttley]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

I believe many remainers want Britain to fail so they can say 'I told you so'. If people had started from a position of wanting Britain to succeed rather than rubbishing the nation at every verse end, and telling us how much we need the EU things may have been better. The EU have sensed the weakness and division in Britain and used it to their advantage.
The result should have been accepted and everyone should have pulled together, instead of the treacherous sabotage of the likes of the vile Gina Miller and her big business cronies. Such people do not care a jot about the British working class.

NAIL ON HEAD .

Remoaners bleet on about treason. But I say it's THEM that's being treasonous by trying to derail brexit. Much more damaging.

I said along time ago, this is a time when we should all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

Good of the country?

Every single economic forecast says that Brexit will damage the country.

Surely if we're pulling together for the good of the country, then we should all be pulling for Remaining in the EU.

[wilts rover]

I prefer his: a movement led by hedge fund millionaires, city bankers and the aristocratic elite, such as Jacob Rees--Mogg, John Redwood, Ian Duncan Smith, Lord Digby Jones, Nigel Farage and Alexander Boris dePfellel Johnson, funded by American billionaires and Russian oligarchs, represents the British working class more than every trade union and the people saying a no-deal Brexit will lead to the collapse of manufacturing and agriculture! Some support is that!

[Boomstick]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

I believe many remainers want Britain to fail so they can say 'I told you so'. If people had started from a position of wanting Britain to succeed rather than rubbishing the nation at every verse end, and telling us how much we need the EU things may have been better. The EU have sensed the weakness and division in Britain and used it to their advantage.
The result should have been accepted and everyone should have pulled together, instead of the treacherous sabotage of the likes of the vile Gina Miller and her big business cronies. Such people do not care a jot about the British working class.

NAIL ON HEAD .

Remoaners bleet on about treason. But I say it's THEM that's being treasonous by trying to derail brexit. Much more damaging.

I said along time ago, this is a time when we should all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

Good of the country?

Every single economic forecast says that Brexit will damage the country.

Surely if we're pulling together for the good of the country, then we should all be pulling for Remaining in the EU.

No, we voted to LEAVE. it's HAPPENING.
the sooner remainers accept this, then we can all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

[bedale rover]

BB

Are you suggesting that an organisation of nearly 500 million should make fundamental changes because of the attitudes of 17 million people, many of whom don't actually seem to know what it does?

Don't take this the wrong way, but who are the likes of Malta, Luxembourg, Lithuania and the rest to dictate too us?
Some pay in and some take out...

They are equal members of the EU