Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

An interesting vid from a pro western news channel, France 24, showing a side of events not available on BBC. Watch if you have interest in the Ukraine situation, otherwise go back to your biscuit dunking and the cricket.
https://youtu.be/CcQJJIvakwo

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get that right.

There's shelled buildings left right and centre.

There's Ukrainian soldiers all over the place.

But that woman insists it isn't the Russians who are attacking the city, it is the Ukrainians?

And this is supposed to make what point exactly?

[Nudga]

Meanwhile Zelensky is meeting Ben Stiller, hosting U2 concerts and doing his best 1984 act at Glastonbury,all done in his little green pristine costume.

[wilts rover]

Meanwhile Zelensky is meeting Ben Stiller, hosting U2 concerts and doing his best 1984 act at Glastonbury,all done in his little green pristine costume.

Thanks for the info - although did you not know you are supposed to give both sides? So what is it Putin is doing?

[Nudga]

No I didn't know I was supposed to give two sides, is it in the vsc terms and conditions?

[wilts rover]

No I didn't know I was supposed to give two sides, is it in the vsc terms and conditions?

No just this thread. You need to read back quite a few pages where a regular poster tells us we need to give both sides when discussing Ukraine.

I am sure he will forgive you this time but thought this might be useful info for future posts.

I am happy to believe that you are not biased to only one side because you have only posted about one side - but I can certainly see how other people can become suspicious about it...

[Nudga]

Nothing suspicious bro, Pootin plays his part in the theartre of war equally well, he's just better dressed and has less celebrity friends.

[bobjimwilly]

Pootin plays his part

Yeah, those sneaky Ukrainians are just as bad as Putin. Especially all those civilians he is shelling - those bas**rds had it coming...

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Ukraine fired missiles at residential areas of Moscow today.



Oh. Sorry. Silly me. No they didn't, it was Russia who fired missiles at flats in Kyiv.

My mistake. So easy to get it wrong when you are trying to have a go at bothsidesism.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating by the way, how much of an overlap there is on the Venn Diagram of "COVID sceptics" and "Ukraine bothsidesism".

I wonder what on earth could be the common denominator?

[Nudga]

Bullshit radar

[Bristol Red Rover]

I see Ukraine fired missiles at residential areas of Moscow today.



Oh. Sorry. Silly me. No they didn't, it was Russia who fired missiles at flats in Kyiv.

My mistake. So easy to get it wrong when you are trying to have a go at bothsidesism.

Apparently an armaments factory across the road. If so, v careless, but not firing "at" civilians. Or maybe you have other info?
#billyblinkers

[Bristol Red Rover]

I see Ukraine fired missiles at residential areas of Moscow today.



Oh. Sorry. Silly me. No they didn't, it was Russia who fired missiles at flats in Kyiv.

My mistake. So easy to get it wrong when you are trying to have a go at bothsidesism.

Apparently an armaments factory across the road. If so, v careless, but not firing "at" civilians. Or maybe you have other info?
#billyblinkers

Pootin plays his part

Yeah, those sneaky Ukrainians are just as bad as Putin. Especially all those civilians he is shelling - those bas**rds had it coming...

You miss the Ukraine shelling of Donetsk? And the continued use of human shields by Ukraine? Maybe you're wearing the same blinkers as BST?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR.
And where do you get your information from that there was an armaments factory in Kyiv, next door to an apartment block? Source?

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR.
And where do you get your information from that there was an armaments factory in Kyiv, next door to an apartment block? Source?

You may be right, that it wasn't. However, there is a factory making helmets and other military equipment in that district of Kyiv. There may well be others
https://www.uarms.com.ua/home

[Bristol Red Rover]

Meanwhile near Donetsk, Ukraine is targetting a monestery. Ukrainian forces are targeting the monastery near Donetsk - see attached vid

"The other day we ended up in the almshouse of the Holy Assumption Nikolo-Vasilyevsky Monastery, where old women live. But, thank God, there were no human casualties."

"Also this week, incendiary shells were fired at the building of St. Xenia the Blessed, where the sewing and icon-painting workshops are located, the second floor of the building burned down. In addition, only in recent days, the house of mercy, the fraternal building, and the bakery have been damaged."

"On the day the correspondent of the "Donbass decides" channel was in the Holy Assumption Nikolo-Vasilyevsky Monastery in the south of the DPR, the Ukrainian Armed Forces fired at the monastery twice."

"The shelling of the temples of the monastery by the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine goes on continuously, although there are no military men close to that, but only hundreds of refugees are hiding."

[BillyStubbsTears]

What's your source for the relative locations of the bombed domestic dwelling and this factory?

And as for "there may well be others". Jesus f**king Christ...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile near Donetsk, Ukraine is targetting a monestery. Ukrainian forces are targeting the monastery near Donetsk - see attached vid

"The other day we ended up in the almshouse of the Holy Assumption Nikolo-Vasilyevsky Monastery, where old women live. But, thank God, there were no human casualties."

"Also this week, incendiary shells were fired at the building of St. Xenia the Blessed, where the sewing and icon-painting workshops are located, the second floor of the building burned down. In addition, only in recent days, the house of mercy, the fraternal building, and the bakery have been damaged."

"On the day the correspondent of the "Donbass decides" channel was in the Holy Assumption Nikolo-Vasilyevsky Monastery in the south of the DPR, the Ukrainian Armed Forces fired at the monastery twice."

"The shelling of the temples of the monastery by the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine goes on continuously, although there are no military men close to that, but only hundreds of refugees are hiding."

Source?

[Bristol Red Rover]

What's your source for the relative locations of the bombed domestic dwelling and this factory?

And as for "there may well be others". Jesus f**king Christ...

I assume you haven't ever looked at this, but yes it's shocking that the city has arms manufacturers in populated areas. I understand your outrage.

From what I can make out that civilian building is across the street from the Artem Plant that makes rockets and missiles. The plant was hit directly. Another write up says that tower block was hit by the fall out from a Ukraine interception of a missile. Multiple sources, yes via Telegram, but then the BBC aren't going to broadcast this are they? I could chase sources further but you'll still want to believe it was Putin that personally aimed it at civilians.

Here's some mainstreaam info about a previous hit on this place https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-struck-kyiv-rocket-plant-with-missiles-2022-04-29/

Vid showing the explosions
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1519831101358940164

You have to ask why Russia would want to be targetting a civilian residence, and pretty much miss (a direct hit would have caused far more damage, eg building gone), when it can be hitting military targets?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Meanwhile near Donetsk, Ukraine is targetting a monestery. Ukrainian forces are targeting the monastery near Donetsk - see attached vid

"The other day we ended up in the almshouse of the Holy Assumption Nikolo-Vasilyevsky Monastery, where old women live. But, thank God, there were no human casualties."

"Also this week, incendiary shells were fired at the building of St. Xenia the Blessed, where the sewing and icon-painting workshops are located, the second floor of the building burned down. In addition, only in recent days, the house of mercy, the fraternal building, and the bakery have been damaged."

"On the day the correspondent of the "Donbass decides" channel was in the Holy Assumption Nikolo-Vasilyevsky Monastery in the south of the DPR, the Ukrainian Armed Forces fired at the monastery twice."

"The shelling of the temples of the monastery by the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine goes on continuously, although there are no military men close to that, but only hundreds of refugees are hiding."

Source?

Erm.... watch the vid. It's currently on the front line about 10 miles SW of Donetsk.
Т0509, Mykil's'ke, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 85720
Go to satellite and zoom in and you can see the buildings.

Though in BST land, the judgement would be that the Russians are shelling it?

[Bristol Red Rover]

What's your source for the relative locations of the bombed domestic dwelling and this factory?

And as for "there may well be others". Jesus f**king Christ...

So hopefully you understand Ukraine manufactures missiles next to, or in amongst, residential areas. A left over from Soviet days perhaps?

Here's the Russian Mod version of events. Makes more sense than the western media version. Maybe the truth lies somewhere between?

On June 26, Russian Aerospace Forces launched 4 high-precision air-based missiles at the workshops of Artyom missile corporation located in Shevchenkovsky district of Kiev. This enterprise produced ordnance for Ukrainian multiple rocket-launching systems (MRLS).

According to live recording data, all of the 4 missiles have reached the target. The facility has been neutralised. Civilian infrastructure of Kiev has not been affected by high-precision armament.

Kiev regime attempted to intercept Russian high-precision missiles by the means of air defence deployed in the city. Ukrainian S-300 and Buk-M1 air defence system crews had launched over 10 air defence missiles.

Due to lack of interoperability between the launching ramps of the air defence systems and electronic facilities deployed in residential areas, 2 S-300 air defence missiles have been intercepted by Ukrainian Buk systems. One of the intercepted air defence missiles has presumably fallen down to a residential building.

[danumdon]

Fascinating by the way, how much of an overlap there is on the Venn Diagram of "COVID sceptics" and "Ukraine bothsidesism".

I wonder what on earth could be the common denominator?

Would you like to share that info for all or did you just make it up to suit your narrative again.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Are there any depths Putin won't sink to murder civilians.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287

Not too long ago a radio intercept caught a Russian General ordering his artillery battalion to aim at civilian targets. Seems to be a tactic to take out supermarkets and shops as part of their early stages of lattening of towns.

Is he trying to incite WW3 and will he succeed?

[danumdon]

Are there any depths Putin won't sink to murder civilians.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287

Not too long ago a radio intercept caught a Russian General ordering his artillery battalion to aim at civilian targets. Seems to be a tactic to take out supermarkets and shops as part of their early stages of lattening of towns.

Is he trying to incite WW3 and will he succeed?

It's scandalous that they've been allowed to get away with if for so long, i wonder how far this will be allowed to persist.

It doesn't help when you have people like Macron with his raving hard on thinking he has any influence in these matters. His posturing has made it almost acceptable to some that Putin can push the envelope until it's closing in om itself. This pillock should of been told in no uncertain terms to wind his neck in, his constant communications with Putin has not helped, he's better off leaving this to the professionals. The EU really need to tell this pipsqueak to concentrate on his home affairs before he manages to completely fu*k that up also.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What's your source for the relative locations of the bombed domestic dwelling and this factory?

And as for "there may well be others". Jesus f**king Christ...

I assume you haven't ever looked at this, but yes it's shocking that the city has arms manufacturers in populated areas. I understand your outrage.

From what I can make out that civilian building is across the street from the Artem Plant that makes rockets and missiles. The plant was hit directly. Another write up says that tower block was hit by the fall out from a Ukraine interception of a missile. Multiple sources, yes via Telegram, but then the BBC aren't going to broadcast this are they? I could chase sources further but you'll still want to believe it was Putin that personally aimed it at civilians.

Here's some mainstreaam info about a previous hit on this place https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-struck-kyiv-rocket-plant-with-missiles-2022-04-29/

Vid showing the explosions
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1519831101358940164

You have to ask why Russia would want to be targetting a civilian residence, and pretty much miss (a direct hit would have caused far more damage, eg building gone), when it can be hitting military targets?

Go on. "From what you can make out". What does that mean? Have you done your own analysis of where the buildings that we hit were, and  where the Artem factory is?

And how do you know what is done at the Artem factory? Do they fit explosives and propellant into rockets at the site? And if so, where is your source?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Are there any depths Putin won't sink to murder civilians.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287

Not too long ago a radio intercept caught a Russian General ordering his artillery battalion to aim at civilian targets. Seems to be a tactic to take out supermarkets and shops as part of their early stages of lattening of towns.

Is he trying to incite WW3 and will he succeed?

No doubt someone will be along to tell us the Ukrainians were making hats there or something and thus it's a justifiable target.

Standing up to Russia is worth the economic hit, this just reinforces that.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Are there any depths Putin won't sink to murder civilians.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287

Not too long ago a radio intercept caught a Russian General ordering his artillery battalion to aim at civilian targets. Seems to be a tactic to take out supermarkets and shops as part of their early stages of lattening of towns.

Is he trying to incite WW3 and will he succeed?

Agreed, this is outrageous. Guessing you are also meaning that Ukraines doing the same are excused or doing it without consent of generals?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Are there any depths Putin won't sink to murder civilians.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287

Not too long ago a radio intercept caught a Russian General ordering his artillery battalion to aim at civilian targets. Seems to be a tactic to take out supermarkets and shops as part of their early stages of lattening of towns.

Is he trying to incite WW3 and will he succeed?

No doubt someone will be along to tell us the Ukrainians were making hats there or something and thus it's a justifiable target.

Standing up to Russia is worth the economic hit, this just reinforces that.

What a naff reply. Sorry to hear you've been recuited into the Billy Blinkers Brigade

There was a missile factory in the region of the previous disaster, and then also it was said that the damage was cause by air defense, you judge, but use your brain and think about the more likely reasons.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR.


Please give us your sources from which you derive your conclusions.

Only, from what  I have seen, the missile strikes were about 300m to the east of the Zavod Artem building.
GeoLocation of the missile strikes
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1541072713497952256

https://www.google.com/maps/place/50%C2%B027'44.5%22N+30%C2%B029'14.3%22E/@50.4619001,30.4854194,17.01z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x699da0a42525c1ed!8m2!3d50.46237!4d30.4873!5m1!1e4
(Zavod Artem is about 300m to the West of that GeoLocation).


And as far as I can see, there is zero evidence other than Russian propaganda, that missiles are made in the Artem building. Certainly, on Google Street View, the Artem Building looks nothing like a factory - more a rundown office.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.4619546,30.4830697,3a,75y,352.79h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siqpr1Pttud-3bEULJcxhuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4

And of course this could be a cover, but the Zavod Artem website says they are a supplier of domestic electrical equipment.
https://td-artem.prom.ua/



I assume you have more definitive data to support your assertions?

[wilts rover]

The Ukrainian defense ministry said the strike was deliberately timed to coincide with the mall's busiest hours and cause the maximum number of victims.

The Ukrainian air force said the mall was hit by Kh-22 anti-ship missiles fired from Tu-22 bombers from the region of Kursk in western Russia.

"The missile fire on Kremenchuk struck a very busy area which had no link to the hostilities," the city's mayor Vitali Maletsky wrote on Facebook.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/27/at-least-10-killed-in-missile-strike-on-ukrainian-shopping-mall-a78123

The Kh-22 is an anti-ship missile, highly inaccurate and not intended for us against ground targets. Such missiles “are highly inaccurate and therefore can cause severe collateral damage and casualties.”

Use of them in this way, on this target, is a war crime.