Ukraine

[Filo]

One of the most chilling lines that John LeCarre out into George Smiley's mouth was this, about his time in Germany in the 1930s.

"I saw them burning books. I knew then it wouldn't be long before they were burning people."

This is a statement of intent that follows straight from Putin's bestial ramblings about Ukraine having no historical right to exist except as a part of Mother Russia.

Putin has said he will burn Ukrainian books and then Ukrainian people?

Putins words are for his heavily censored people’s consumption

[Bristol Red Rover]

So you've not seen the burning of Russian books then. Glad we sorted that.

That's not what I said. Though sadly it seems we sorted out that you are happy to turn a blind eye to state censorship and marginalising chosen people based on race. I can see why you're a Zelensky fan.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I clearly misunderstood you when you said "You've not seen the burning of Russian books then?" as meaning that YOU had. But then you regularly say things in this thread that I don't understand.

For the record, I don't agree with suppressing any reasonable culture. But you are making a mistake in equating the actions on both sides, as you regularly do.

Ukraine brought in the laws to suppress the Russian language after its sovereign territory was invaded by Russia.

Russian forces, by clearly out a Ukrainian library are trying to suppress the culture of a state they have invaded.

The two are not remotely equal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Superb piece here in the FT on how Putin threw himself into this nightmare.

https://www.ft.com/content/80002564-33e8-48fb-b734-44810afb7a49

[Bristol Red Rover]

I clearly misunderstood you when you said "You've not seen the burning of Russian books then?" as meaning that YOU had. But then you regularly say things in this thread that I don't understand.

For the record, I don't agree with suppressing any reasonable culture. But you are making a mistake in equating the actions on both sides, as you regularly do.

Ukraine brought in the laws to suppress the Russian language after its sovereign territory was invaded by Russia.

Russian forces, by clearly out a Ukrainian library are trying to suppress the culture of a state they have invaded.

The two are not remotely equal.

Except Ukraine started marginalising Russian speakers before the invasion. Eg Russian not allowed in Donbas schools. Russian books removed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go on. When did that happen?

[bpoolrover]

10k lefties turned up in Germany to protest about arming Ukraine today

[scawsby steve]

10k lefties turned up in Germany to protest about arming Ukraine today

Seeing as most people would regard Putin and his generals as being ultra-fascists, that's a strange one.

[SydneyRover]

10k lefties turned up in Germany to protest about arming Ukraine today

They should be protesting in moscow then bp

[BillyStubbsTears]

The very far left and the far right are indistinguishable.

It's not really that big a deal is it? 13,000 people in a demo, in a country of 80 million.

[Dutch Uncle]

Very very Dutch protest

https://twitter.com/MollyQuell/status/1629486292076470272?s=20

[i_ateallthepies]

Very very Dutch protest

https://twitter.com/MollyQuell/status/1629486292076470272?s=20

Brilliant, Dutch   

[BillyStubbsTears]

Very very Dutch protest

https://twitter.com/MollyQuell/status/1629486292076470272?s=20

That's superb.

The best church chimes I've ever heard were in The Hague. Seemed to go on for hours.

[SydneyRover]

Dismembering russia in an elegant style

[Usher down the wing.]

At the rally Putin appeared at last Friday in a sports stadium attended by state employees who had been given the day off on the understanding that they would attend, a large number left the stadium before Putin took to the stage.

They could have just popped out for a hot dog.

[Filo]

At the rally Putin appeared at last Friday in a sports stadium attended by state employees who had been given the day off on the understanding that they would attend, a large number left the stadium before Putin took to the stage.

They could have just popped out for a hot dog.

A Sodexo hot dog?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Deliberate targeting of civilians in Donetsk as has been going on since 2014.

At the end of the vid there is an example of Ukraine taking that one step further, deliberate shelling of an ambulance that was rescuing civilians after a previous shelling.

https://youtu.be/iAcPP2WMlX0

[Metalmicky]

Deliberate targeting of civilians in Donetsk as has been going on since 2014.

At the end of the vid there is an example of Ukraine taking that one step further, deliberate shelling of an ambulance that was rescuing civilians after a previous shelling.

https://youtu.be/iAcPP2WMlX0

It's good that the Russians aren't doing similar on a far grander scale eh...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Deliberate targeting of civilians in Donetsk as has been going on since 2014.

At the end of the vid there is an example of Ukraine taking that one step further, deliberate shelling of an ambulance that was rescuing civilians after a previous shelling.

https://youtu.be/iAcPP2WMlX0

Patrick Lancaster?

Alex Jones's favourite vlogger on Ukraine?

You, BRR, are beyond parody.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Deliberate targeting of civilians in Donetsk as has been going on since 2014.

At the end of the vid there is an example of Ukraine taking that one step further, deliberate shelling of an ambulance that was rescuing civilians after a previous shelling.

https://youtu.be/iAcPP2WMlX0

Patrick Lancaster?

Alex Jones's favourite vlogger on Ukraine?

You, BRR, are beyond parody.

Shame your criticism is based on fluff.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Deliberate targeting of civilians in Donetsk as has been going on since 2014.

At the end of the vid there is an example of Ukraine taking that one step further, deliberate shelling of an ambulance that was rescuing civilians after a previous shelling.

https://youtu.be/iAcPP2WMlX0

It's good that the Russians aren't doing similar on a far grander scale eh...

I don't condone any of this war. As far as I can see, there is little or no direct targeting of civilians by Russia as there has been by Ukrania in Donetsk especially since 2014. Their shelling of the city has been relentless for several months. Yes, some industrial targets, an occasional military one but hundreds or thousands of civilian ones. Maybe some are by accident, but the bulk are not - as made evident in the video above.

I haven't seen the evidence, I haven't looked, but it is reported they are once again shelling with large quantities of petal mines in the city. This was done in autumn last year too. I saw the evidence of that - guessing your chosen media didn't show it?

Why are they attacking civilians directly like this?

[BillyStubbsTears]

"Reported".

By Patrick Lancaster by any chance?

[wilts rover]

'As far as I can see there is little or no direct targetting of civilians by Russia'

You wont if you only ever view pro-Russian propoganda will you?

To date, 8101 Ukranian civilians have been killed by Russian action (inc 488 children) and 13479 injured (962 children)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're wasting your time Wilts.

That event last year when Russia lobbed 2 1tonne anti-ship missile warheads into a city centre is still, according to BRR, a targeted attack on a military target, that only killed civilians because it set off a cache of NATO munitions.

I don't know whether it's really sad, or genuinely disgusting to see someone so determined not to face up to what is happening.

[wilts rover]

It's never a waste of time to counter falsehoods Billy.

One day this war will be over and we can all read the books about what happened in it. And this thread will still be here.

[Metalmicky]

To jog BRR's memory......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremenchuk_shopping_mall_attack

[DonnyOsmond]

To jog BRR's memory......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremenchuk_shopping_mall_attack

Memory? He won't have known about it because conspiracy nuts won't have reported it.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Not one condemnation of deliberate Ukraine attacks on civilians. Keep taking the soma pills, boys.

[Bristol Red Rover]

"Reported".

By Patrick Lancaster by any chance?

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/31/ukraine-banned-landmines-harm-civilians

https://www.weeklyblitz.net/news/a-teenager-was-blown-up-by-a-mine-petal-in-donetsk/

And so on. Did your dad do your homework for you too?

[wilts rover]

Not one condemnation of deliberate Ukraine attacks on civilians. Keep taking the soma pills, boys.

What Ukrainian sources do you use to track the conflict in Ukraine?