Remind me again why we left the EU

[wilts rover]

Man charges after 30 petrol boms were thrown at police on outskirts of Belfast.

The arrest follows 5 nights of rioting in loyalist areas in Belfast and Derry blamed in part on loyalist disquiet over the UK government's Brexit agreement and it's Northern Ireland Protocol:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56631894

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56623901

Back to 1972, thanks Selby.

[selby]

  Look inwards Wilts, for five years you re moaners  have enthused the EU to raise every obstacle in the UK's way and cheered on here when they have done it showing your true colours to have a reasonable and equal standing separation from the EU, and you are still doing it.
  Shame on you and your kind, not accepting a democratic vote and accepting the result, it spoilt your Champaign for Remain party that night and you still haven't got over it.
  The EU will pay in the near future, with a big economic hit, and more countries moving away  from the cartel.
 

[BVB]

'What little countrside we have left'?

Aye, right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach.  If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.

Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights).  I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?

Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.

The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.

All that land was greenfield and woodland.

I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?

A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.

[drfchound]

'What little countrside we have left'?

Aye, right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach.  If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.

Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights).  I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?

Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.

The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.

All that land was greenfield and woodland.

I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?

A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.

A good argument BVB but I don’t think that any of that land was pit land.
If indeed any of it was it would have been a very small part of it.
I have a friend who owns a plot of land on Waggons Way and they have repeatedly been turned down in their attempts to build a private house on it.

[SydneyRover]

  Look inwards Wilts, for five years you re moaners  have enthused the EU to raise every obstacle in the UK's way and cheered on here when they have done it showing your true colours to have a reasonable and equal standing separation from the EU, and you are still doing it.
  Shame on you and your kind, not accepting a democratic vote and accepting the result, it spoilt your Champaign for Remain party that night and you still haven't got over it.
  The EU will pay in the near future, with a big economic hit, and more countries moving away  from the cartel.
 

nothing to do with johnson stabbing may in the back then?

[SydneyRover]

or johnson waiting to the last possible moment to drive the worst deal he could possibly get?

[wilts rover]

  Look inwards Wilts, for five years you re moaners  have enthused the EU to raise every obstacle in the UK's way and cheered on here when they have done it showing your true colours to have a reasonable and equal standing separation from the EU, and you are still doing it.
  Shame on you and your kind, not accepting a democratic vote and accepting the result, it spoilt your Champaign for Remain party that night and you still haven't got over it.
  The EU will pay in the near future, with a big economic hit, and more countries moving away  from the cartel.
 

Look inwards Selby. You won - get over it. Tell us about the great country we have become and ignore the riots.

But no, you wont. You will tell us about any problems in the EU which we are no longer part of.

Because it was never about improving the UK was it Selby. All it was about was being cruel to foreigners.

[Bentley Bullet]

Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?

[Filo]

'What little countrside we have left'?

Aye, right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach.  If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.

Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights).  I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?

Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.

The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.

All that land was greenfield and woodland.

I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?

A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.

A good argument BVB but I don’t think that any of that land was pit land.
If indeed any of it was it would have been a very small part of it.
I have a friend who owns a plot of land on Waggons Way and they have repeatedly been turned down in their attempts to build a private house on it.

The whole length of Wagons Way from the units to the new bridge over the railway is former pit land, in fact most of it is the former site of what was known locally as the red tip. I’m guessing you friend is a showman?

[SydneyRover]

Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?

like the dog that caught the car, you've won brexit and don't know what to do with it, come on bb give us something positive about this omnishambles

[drfchound]

'What little countrside we have left'?

Aye, right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach.  If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.

Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights).  I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?

Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.

The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.

All that land was greenfield and woodland.

I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?

A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.

A good argument BVB but I don’t think that any of that land was pit land.
If indeed any of it was it would have been a very small part of it.
I have a friend who owns a plot of land on Waggons Way and they have repeatedly been turned down in their attempts to build a private house on it.

The whole length of Wagons Way from the units to the new bridge over the railway is former pit land, in fact most of it is the former site of what was known locally as the red tip. I’m guessing you friend is a showman?

Cheers Filo, i wasnt totally sure about that first bit to the new bridge over the railway.
However, the rest of the road, from the bridge to the motorway services and the link from the roundabout onto Bootham Lane and onto Station Road is the majority of the new road.
None of that, as far as i am aware, was brownfield.

[selby]

  Even the Labour party have accepted that to fight the corner of rejoining the EU is electoral suicide for them, and the dunderheads on here still harp on boring everyone with their inane views which even their lords and gods have chucked overboard.
  Lemmings have got nothing on them.

[wilts rover]

Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?

There is a bit of a discussion among Rovers supporters on the main forum at the moment on why Rovers aren't winning. I see several people giving their various bits of expert knowledge on it but I just concentrate on the facts and outcomes at hand. That's all I am qualified at.

Some strange comments on the posts after this one, from people who ought to know better that I wish to totally disassociate myself from.

But thats what you get when you participate in a culture war. A culture war. Probably best not to encourage it if you ask me.

[bobjimwilly]

Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?

like the dog that caught the car, you've won brexit and don't know what to do with it, come on bb give us something positive about this omnishambles

just in case you missed this BB

[Forum Admin]

We have removed some posts from this thread and will continue to do so where we feel posters are resorting to personal slanging matches. Thanks.

[Filo]

We have removed some posts from this thread and will continue to do so where we feel posters are resorting to personal slanging matches. Thanks.

You would do well to have a word with posters clearly trying to bait a response

[drfchound]

I totally agree Filo.

[Bentley Bullet]

BJW, did I ever, EVER say there were any positives up to this point regarding Brexit, other than democracy had prevailed?

Now, while you're here perhaps you can tell me why lies concerning the contents of my private messaging haven't been addressed, as I requested?

[scawsby steve]

Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?

like the dog that caught the car, you've won brexit and don't know what to do with it, come on bb give us something positive about this omnishambles

I'll give you it instead. We're all getting vaccinated.

How's the omnishambles in France going?

[SydneyRover]

you seem to forget SS I wasn't chasing it?

[SydneyRover]

''Health Secretary Matt Hancock has claimed Brexit allowed the UK to approve a Covid vaccine more quickly than other European Union (EU) countries.

"We do all the same safety checks and the same processes, but we have been able to speed up how they're done because of Brexit," he said in an interview with Times Radio.

And the Leader of the House of Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, tweeted: "We could only approve this vaccine so quickly because we have left the EU."''

''The EU - through the European Medicines Agency (EMA) - has yet to approve a coronavirus vaccine.

But the idea that Brexit enabled the UK to press ahead and authorise one is not right.

It was actually permitted under EU law, a point made by the head of the UK's medicines regulator on Wednesday''

https://www.bbc.com/news/55163730

you'd think hancock would know more about this?

[Bentley Bullet]

The government explained its refusal to participate in the joint EU vaccine purchasing scheme earlier this year by saying that it could secure doses more quickly itself. Others, however, claimed that Brexit will actually make the rollout of the UK’s vaccination programme more difficult. Who was right?

The UK could have followed the same course of vaccine action if it were still an EU member, but as staying in the EU’s medicines regulator was Labour’s policy and Keir Starmer's own personal choice, it can be claimed that the UK could have been in a far worse position now under Labour.

[SydneyRover]

dunno, dunno who said that

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755

[Dutch Uncle]

This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755

Excellent thread. I do have two small comments which do not affect the overall logic and conclusions.

First, as an aside, the current rioting has not been triggered by Brexit, rather the refusal to prosecute any Sinn Fein political members for a mass funeral of an IRA man at a time of strict limits (8 people i think) at other funerals. These same political figures had laid down that very law.  However the underlying tensions on Brexit had already hugely stoked Unionist anger with the GB-NI border appearing - the very last thing they wanted, and seen by them as a first step to being cut off from the UK, then a border poll and secession of NI to Ireland.

Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.

The GFA was a wonderful way of giving both sides what they wanted -  unfettered access to Ireland for Republicans who could more or less feel they were in Ireland anyway (hence their remain vote for the status quo), and unfettered access to GB for Unionists guaranteeing their staying within the UK. Ironically the Unionists voting Leave may well be voting to bring about what they fear most.

This Government has disgracefully sold out Northern Ireland on the altar of 'taking back control'. Ironic that in my lifetime they are the government least capable of controlling anything at all, be it economics, borders or pandemics.   



Edit: This is a very important quote: 
'Leaving the customs union and the single market makes a border either between NI and GB or between NI and RoI inevitable.'

Denied by all Leave Politicians at every single opportunity.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DU.
I get that line about the Sinn Fein funeral issue being the proximate cause, not least because Arlene Foster was screaming about it repeatedly yesterday in fire and brimstone tones (before quietly saying that of course she didn't condone violence...)

But that has come in an atmosphere of increasing belligerent behaviour among Unionists who are understandably pissed off about being lied to over the GB/NI border. To be honest, Foster yesterday sounded like a politician trying to re-direct that anger away from the Brexit cause that she supported.


You're bang on about the importance of that quote. It is simple logic that has been denied over and again by Johnson's cabal. Further down the thread, Yates sums it up like this:
"The Leave narrative switched from 'we will never allow a NI-GB border and there will only be one between I/NI if the EU put one up' to 'this protocol thing has been forced on us by the EU we must get rid of it or not apply it'."

Lies and deception every step of the way. And now this is where we are.

[Dutch Uncle]

Absolutely BST. Totally agree.

[SydneyRover]

It's a trajedy already made, who will ever forget this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NFfUOJwDE

in vino veritas

[Metalmicky]

This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755

Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.

Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.

Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...

[wilts rover]

This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755

Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.

Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.

Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...

No I disagree. It wasn't inevitable. There could have been other forms of Brexit that would have meant there was a lesser effect of Brexit on NI.

What made it likley was Johnson's hard Brexit - and then his lying about it. As soon as he told the DUP no British PM would ever put a border in the Irish Sea, then agreed a deal to put a border in the Irish Sea, then told people he hadn't - there was going to be trouble.

I heard Peter Hain on the radio just now say Brexit had poured petrol on the flame of the troubles. And that funeral was the match.

What it needs now are wise heads and calm politicians on all sides. We have Boris Johnson and Brandon Lewis.