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Quote from: Mr1Croft on January 15, 2019, 10:17:01 pm By normal precedents, a defeat of 232 votes on a minority Government's flagship policy would see the Prime Minister resigning before the night is over. But we live in unprecedented times. But it the Leader of The Opposition cannot table a Vote of No Confidence when a minority Government loses by such a staggering margin then when can he? Take your point but likely another day wasted for effectively nothing.....
By normal precedents, a defeat of 232 votes on a minority Government's flagship policy would see the Prime Minister resigning before the night is over. But we live in unprecedented times. But it the Leader of The Opposition cannot table a Vote of No Confidence when a minority Government loses by such a staggering margin then when can he?
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on January 15, 2019, 10:23:25 pmQuote from: Mr1Croft on January 15, 2019, 10:17:01 pm By normal precedents, a defeat of 232 votes on a minority Government's flagship policy would see the Prime Minister resigning before the night is over. But we live in unprecedented times. But it the Leader of The Opposition cannot table a Vote of No Confidence when a minority Government loses by such a staggering margin then when can he? Take your point but likely another day wasted for effectively nothing.....May isn't going to report back to Parliament on what she will do next until Monday - so we have actually got 5 wasted days (so far).Of course even if she looses the vote tomorrow she doesn't have to step down. She has 14 days to see if she can regain the confidence of the house.
. The word from ,,................ - none of them have been given any indication of what Plan B is, which is one reason that Hancock floundered earlier (the other being that he is f**king hopeless).
I think the more likely outcome is that the whole process is effectively taken out of her hands. The thought of her being allowed, on behalf of the country, to go back to the EU to ask them for changes which might be sufficient to turn round a vote like this is simply bizarre. I'm genuinely concerned that she has something approaching a mental health problem if she really thinks that is remotely possible. The word from Cabinet leaks is that she has been becoming more and more secretive - none of them have been given any indication of what Plan B is, which is one reason that Hancock floundered earlier (the other being that he is f**king hopeless).There were rumours last week of the Chairs of the Select Committees forming an ad hoc Brexit Executive Committee, taking over the entire process on behalf of MPs and thrashing out a way forward that would have a chance of getting a majority in the House. Effectively by-passing the PM. It's unprecedented, but the unprecedented seems to be standard at the moment.
A Corbyn ministry terrifies me
Quote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 07:51:35 amA Corbyn ministry terrifies meWhich of his policies terrify you?
.... and back on one of 2 horses - I had to laugh at the "sneer" by May at the Lib Dems. They stood in the last General Election on a "Second Referendum - with a view to keeping us in the EU" and what happened ? They got ONLY 7% of the people supporting that she sneered againHowever that 7% was a total of 2.3 million votes (7.4 of the total Votes cast) and it won them 12 SeatsMay (attempting to produce a strong and stable Govt dont forget) and her Party got 13.6 mllion votes. They got 42% of the Votes but got 317 SeatsWhoa whoa - so that means the Libs got about a sixth of the Votes that the Conservatives yet got a thirtieth of the Seats ? You would think that they would have got about 42 Seats surely .... Cant be right surely ? Well under first past the post it is exactly what happensSneer at the Libs May - then look at the DUP. Total Votes they got 292,000 (292 thousand !) That got them 10 Seats . 10 Seats with only 300k ish Votes ? Lib Dems (sneered at) got as we have seen 2.3 million Votes - lets call that 7 times more than the DUP but only 2 seats more.Ironic that May sneers at the LibDems and yet got the DUP and their 10 Seats to allow her to form that much trumpeted "strong and stable Govt" - She gave them everything they asked for to ensure they would come on board - and of course they will prop her up again todayPoor old Green Party got 525 thousand Votes lets call it twice as many as the DUP and 1 Seat - yes a tenth of those got by the DUP. If they (The Greens) ask for anything financial for what may be a very worthy cause May laughs them out of the placeIt just CANT be right
Quote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 07:51:35 amA Corbyn ministry terrifies meWhy?You’ve seen what damage the present dictator has done?
Quote from: Filo on January 16, 2019, 08:20:17 amQuote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 07:51:35 amA Corbyn ministry terrifies meWhy?You’ve seen what damage the present dictator has done?And I've said to you before Filo (on Twitter) that neither of the main parties are fit to rule
Quote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 08:25:56 amQuote from: Filo on January 16, 2019, 08:20:17 amQuote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 07:51:35 amA Corbyn ministry terrifies meWhy?You’ve seen what damage the present dictator has done?And I've said to you before Filo (on Twitter) that neither of the main parties are fit to ruleWhat policies are you against from Labour though?
Quote from: DonnyOsmond on January 16, 2019, 08:33:55 amQuote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 08:25:56 amQuote from: Filo on January 16, 2019, 08:20:17 amQuote from: Ldr on January 16, 2019, 07:51:35 amA Corbyn ministry terrifies meWhy?You’ve seen what damage the present dictator has done?And I've said to you before Filo (on Twitter) that neither of the main parties are fit to ruleWhat policies are you against from Labour though?I'm more aghast at Corbyn (and abbot) than Labour itself. A more moderate labour would have a chance at my vote (at the moment I find myself politically homeless).If you wanted to look at specifics there isn't much, though I am opposed to re nationalizing railways, my view there is that you pay for a service as you use it - I dislike the idea of subsidising things. I do agree with certain social policies. UC is a massive failure and the NHS has to be protected at all costs though people need to realise outsourcing (currently necessary) is might be same as privatisation (unacceptable in the case of the NHS). My major concern is financial, the tax the rich and companies mantra looks great on paper but in practice doesn't work. When they fail to extract the money needed it falls on the rest of us who can't move ourselves or our money overseas to pay for all these policies.Don't get me started on his falklands sovereignty either........In short, totally disillusioned
Quote from: Donnywolf on January 16, 2019, 07:43:57 am.... and back on one of 2 horses - I had to laugh at the "sneer" by May at the Lib Dems. They stood in the last General Election on a "Second Referendum - with a view to keeping us in the EU" and what happened ? They got ONLY 7% of the people supporting that she sneered againHowever that 7% was a total of 2.3 million votes (7.4 of the total Votes cast) and it won them 12 SeatsMay (attempting to produce a strong and stable Govt dont forget) and her Party got 13.6 mllion votes. They got 42% of the Votes but got 317 SeatsWhoa whoa - so that means the Libs got about a sixth of the Votes that the Conservatives yet got a thirtieth of the Seats ? You would think that they would have got about 42 Seats surely .... Cant be right surely ? Well under first past the post it is exactly what happensSneer at the Libs May - then look at the DUP. Total Votes they got 292,000 (292 thousand !) That got them 10 Seats . 10 Seats with only 300k ish Votes ? Lib Dems (sneered at) got as we have seen 2.3 million Votes - lets call that 7 times more than the DUP but only 2 seats more.Ironic that May sneers at the LibDems and yet got the DUP and their 10 Seats to allow her to form that much trumpeted "strong and stable Govt" - She gave them everything they asked for to ensure they would come on board - and of course they will prop her up again todayPoor old Green Party got 525 thousand Votes lets call it twice as many as the DUP and 1 Seat - yes a tenth of those got by the DUP. If they (The Greens) ask for anything financial for what may be a very worthy cause May laughs them out of the placeIt just CANT be rightNot much in politics comes over as “right” does it.Look at how Scotland voted in the 2017 GE.The SNP won almost three times as many seats as the Conservatives but only got 8% more of the whole votes.SNP 35 seats from 977,569 votes.Conservatives 13 seats from 747,949.To take it a bit further, Labour won only 7 seats from 717,007 votes.You shouldn’t be surprised by those figures you quoted Wolfie.
ERG want to keep her in place, Glyn, as a blame sponge.As Mr Croft says, if May survives the VoC with just a thin sliver of votes, her position going into multi party discussion to seek a majority is weakened.Treeza needs to cut a new deal at the time she has least negotiating traction. The EU can't pull a rabbit out of the hat for her, and why should they?Nothing to offer, unless she makes concessions that will alienate her own support base.No-one is going to follow her regardless, after the shambles today, apart from the DUP who will milk it dry.I think she will try to press time by returning with the same deal tweaked. The Speaker may refuse her permission on the basis of no substantive change.Thats all she has....unless she realigns around an amendment which goes against everything she has been saying from the get go.
I think JC is going to hammer the second referendum option now.
Quote from: GazLaz on January 16, 2019, 11:04:24 amI think JC is going to hammer the second referendum option now. The pressure from his party probably gives him no choice, what that means for his chances in an election are questionable, probably positive in London etc, but in places like Barnsley? Granted it's probably not enough to see them lose that many seats.Equally he's clearly anti EU himself, will be very hard for him to change his view on his 20-30 years of beliefs...Glyn, on May the Tories will vote least bad, they can push Theresa May a huge amount she needs them, they cannot risk a Corbyn victory giving them no chance of achieving their aims.