Brexit deal

[Glyn_Wigley]

Whatever. But I doubt that will change Brexiters minds.

If they don't understand how it works in the first place, of course they won't change their mind.

[DonnyOsmond]

Whatever. But I doubt that will change Brexiters minds.

If they don't understand how it works in the first place, of course they won't change their mind.

This. They've been told all the facts.

The UK has only voted against 2% of laws that have come from the EU, the high majority have been voted for. These are people that must hate seeing money put into poorer areas like ours as voting Brexit will only put more money in London and the rest will be held back because of austerity.

[Bentley Bullet]

Have YOU been told all the facts? That 2% only relates to votes on proposed laws that were passed.

There are no official figures of how often the UK successfully opposed proposals or failed to get things it wanted.

[MachoMadness]

You're right BB. That's why the UK was roped into joining Schengen and the Euro. We have no power to do anything thanks to those undemocratic unelected bureaucrats, so remember to vote in the upcoming democratic elections to elect someone to tell them what a bunch of unelected bureaucrats they all are.

[Not Now Kato]

Have YOU been told all the facts? That 2% only relates to votes on proposed laws that were passed.

There are no official figures of how often the UK successfully opposed proposals or failed to get things it wanted.

 

[i_ateallthepies]

Of course, you can't have a vote for every issue. Most decisions have to be made by the government and civil servants in every democratic society.

That's democracy as we in the UK know it.

Brexiters get agitated by unelected bureaucrats from the European Commission administering policy in the UK before our own politicians and civil servants implement them.

Aren't you forgetting, BB, that you're a remainer - or so you keep telling us - so how can you pretend to know what gets brexiters agitated?

[Bentley Bullet]

i_ateallthepies. I was, like you, a remainer - but we lost - so I'm a leaver now - and the way I see it, we're all leavers now.

I know what get's brexiters agitated because I know some! I also know what gets former remainers, like me, agitated, because I know some of them too -
 remoaners who only believe in democracy when it suits.

[i_ateallthepies]

And the democracy you are advocating BB has been PROVEN to be corrupted.  So, you're not a genuine advocate of democracy, quite the opposite in fact.  Anyone with a modicum of common sense can see that.

[scawsby steve]

And the democracy you are advocating BB has been PROVEN to be corrupted.  So, you're not a genuine advocate of democracy, quite the opposite in fact.  Anyone with a modicum of common sense can see that.

Save the whinging and whining for Thursday.

[Bentley Bullet]

i_ateallthepies.

The way you remoaners have treated the leavers has been a major part of the argument, so there's no surprise in the content of your last post.

I'll just have to live with being considered a thick, xenophobic, undemocratic racist berk with no common sense, that's all!

At least I'm happy not being one of you lot!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

And there's the irony.

The one who REALLY thinks Leave voters are thick is Farage. After all, he plays up the anti-elite angle then assumes his supporters are too thick to get the discrepancy when 1/4 of his candidates have City of London or similar backgrounds.

The one who REALLY thinks you're undemocratic is Farage. He assumes that he can ride a coach and horses through electoral law, and you won't give a f**k about it because you don't believe in democracy.

The one who REALLY thinks you have no commonsense is Farage. Because when he's explaining about why it was OK for him to be bankrolled by a businessman to the tune of £400k for a Mayfair flat and a chauffeur driven Range Rover and first class flights to America at the same time as pocketing €9000/month plus expenses from the European Parliament, he says it was OK, because he was planning his life after politics. How thick must he think you are if he assumes you will not see through that one?!?

[Not Now Kato]

Have YOU been told all the facts? That 2% only relates to votes on proposed laws that were passed.

There are no official figures of how often the UK successfully opposed proposals or failed to get things it wanted.

I see that you made a statement and then completely ducked my answer to it.
 
So, here it is again, just for your benefit....
 

 
Now, are you going to admit you were wrong?  Or are you going to ignore facts as usual?
 
The more of your posts I read the more I think you're either a WUM or are deliberately Trolling. Whichever, it's quite clear that you know practically nothing about what democracy is!

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. If you had a better track record in your predictions more of us with no common sense might believe you and maybe even support your hatred towards everyone you don't agree with.

[Bentley Bullet]

Have YOU been told all the facts? That 2% only relates to votes on proposed laws that were passed.

There are no official figures of how often the UK successfully opposed proposals or failed to get things it wanted.

I see that you made a statement and then completely ducked my answer to it.
 
So, here it is again, just for your benefit....
 

 
Now, are you going to admit you were wrong?  Or are you going to ignore facts as usual?
 
The more of your posts I read the more I think you're either a WUM or are deliberately Trolling. Whichever, it's quite clear that you know practically nothing about what democracy is!

No, I can't, because There are no official figures! Besides, it's all about the principle.

[SydneyRover]

I think even if you were presented with all the facts in the world about the corrupt process of brexit and the bad deal for the uk you would still moan about some false denial of democracy, still no use crying over spilt milk, hehe

[Bentley Bullet]

It's reached the time when we really should be crying over spilt milk, considering there's supposed to be no snap in the shops by now!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST. If you had a better track record in your predictions more of us with no common sense might believe you and maybe even support your hatred towards everyone you don't agree with.

Which predictions are those BB?

The one where I predicted in 2010 that Austerity would lead to a decade of depressed growth and wages, and a lurch to the populist anti-immigrant Right?
Or the one where I predicted Trump would be elected a year before the vote?
Or the one where I predicted the exact outcome of the Scottish independence referendum?
Or the countless times where I predicted that you would ignore facts put in from of you and come back with a daft ad hominem?

Hatred of people who don't agree with me?

Really?

You REALLY think that?

It's not hatred of people who don't agree with me you daft sod. It's bewilderment at people who won't engage with facts.

Thing is, I KNOW how smart you are. Never doubted that. And I don't hate you for disagreeing with me. I just don't get your method of arguing. Which seems to consist of repeatedly asking the same questions, ignoring the answers then accusing people of being condescending.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Have YOU been told all the facts? That 2% only relates to votes on proposed laws that were passed.

There are no official figures of how often the UK successfully opposed proposals or failed to get things it wanted.

I see that you made a statement and then completely ducked my answer to it.
 
So, here it is again, just for your benefit....
 

 
Now, are you going to admit you were wrong?  Or are you going to ignore facts as usual?
 
The more of your posts I read the more I think you're either a WUM or are deliberately Trolling. Whichever, it's quite clear that you know practically nothing about what democracy is!

No, I can't, because There are no official figures! Besides, it's all about the principle.

That's odd. No official figures, but you state it's happening. What do you know that the officials don't?

Brexiters get agitated by unelected bureaucrats from the European Commission administering policy in the UK before our own politicians and civil servants implement them.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. If you had a better track record in your predictions more of us with no common sense might believe you and maybe even support your hatred towards everyone you don't agree with.

Which predictions are those BB?

The one where I predicted in 2010 that Austerity would lead to a decade of depressed growth and wages, and a lurch to the populist anti-immigrant Right?
Or the one where I predicted Trump would be elected a year before the vote?
Or the one where I predicted the exact outcome of the Scottish independence referendum?
Or the countless times where I predicted that you would ignore facts put in from of you and come back with a daft ad hominem?

Hatred of people who don't agree with me?

Really?

You REALLY think that?

It's not hatred of people who don't agree with me you daft sod. It's bewilderment at people who won't engage with facts.

Thing is, I KNOW how smart you are. Never doubted that. And I don't hate you for disagreeing with me. I just don't get your method of arguing. Which seems to consist of repeatedly asking the same questions, ignoring the answers then accusing people of being condescending.

BST. I was thinking more of predictions that are on the subject of Brexit, such as the one about there being no food on the shelves by now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You really thought that was a prediction rather than a deliberate over-exaggeration to make a point?

And there was me thinking you had one of the best senses of humour in here.

See, what you've done is what Leave.EU did the other day. There was an excellent documentary following despairing EU MEPs through the process of the Brexit negotiations. At one point, a couple of the junior researchers were, at the end of a particularly difficult day, jokingly saying to the camera, "You see our plan! It's worked! To make UK a colony of Europe! Ha-ha."

The lying, devious Kitsons at Leave.EU tweeted that video clip and it was watched by thousands. They cut it before the researchers burst out laughing and rolled their eyes and they cut out the bit at the start where they made it clear they were parodying how the Brexit-maniacs want you to see EU officials. Because Leave.EU want to deliberately misrepresent humour as something they can throw at Leave supporters to wind them up.

When they do that, they are clearly and unquestionably treating their followers with contempt by choosing to misrepresent something that was never intended to be taken remotely seriously. They do that because they are lying, devious Kitsons. Why you do it, I have no idea.

[Bentley Bullet]

You really thought that was a prediction rather than a deliberate over-exaggeration to make a point?

 It was deliberate scaremongering. Not one you'd invented, I admit, but one that that you'd jumped on the bandwagon of.

And there was me thinking you had one of the best senses of humour in here.
Oh, I laughed at it!

[SydneyRover]

BST. If you had a better track record in your predictions more of us with no common sense might believe you and maybe even support your hatred towards everyone you don't agree with.

Which predictions are those BB?

The one where I predicted in 2010 that Austerity would lead to a decade of depressed growth and wages, and a lurch to the populist anti-immigrant Right?
Or the one where I predicted Trump would be elected a year before the vote?
Or the one where I predicted the exact outcome of the Scottish independence referendum?
Or the countless times where I predicted that you would ignore facts put in from of you and come back with a daft ad hominem?

Hatred of people who don't agree with me?

Really?

You REALLY think that?

It's not hatred of people who don't agree with me you daft sod. It's bewilderment at people who won't engage with facts.

Thing is, I KNOW how smart you are. Never doubted that. And I don't hate you for disagreeing with me. I just don't get your method of arguing. Which seems to consist of repeatedly asking the same questions, ignoring the answers then accusing people of being condescending.

BST. I was thinking more of predictions that are on the subject of Brexit, such as the one about there being no food on the shelves by now.

Oh there is plenty of food on the shelves right now BB but only by courtesy of those donating time money and goods to food banks, remind me how many there are in the UK? or just ignore the question.

[SydneyRover]

''Electoral Commission to visit Brexit party offices over funding concerns''

''Brown said the European parliament should be investigating the disclosures last week that Farage had received about £450,000 in financial support from Arron Banks, the Eurosceptic businessman who funded Farage’s Leave.EU Brexit campaign during the 2016 referendum. That could be a clear conflict of interest with Farage’s duties as an MEP, he added''

Farage accused Brown of an “absolutely disgusting smear” against his party. “This from the man who was part of a Labour party who, through Lord Levy, were making a lot of big donors members of the House of Lords,”

I would have been more impressed if Farage had said we have nothing to hide are accounts are open for all to see.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/20/electoral-commission-visit-brexit-party-offices-funding-gordon-brown-paypal

[BillyStubbsTears]

You really thought that was a prediction rather than a deliberate over-exaggeration to make a point?

 It was deliberate scaremongering. Not one you'd invented, I admit, but one that that you'd jumped on the bandwagon of.

Jesus wept.

Honest suggestion. I think you need some time off pal.

[Bentley Bullet]

Sydney. What have food banks got to do with BST's comments? He claimed there would be no food on shops shelves by May this year!

[SydneyRover]

Sydney. What have food banks got to do with BST's comments? He claimed there would be no food on shops shelves by May this year!

It was a sort non sequitur poke at any VSC tory supporters, I thought you would have recognised that immediately.

Modified: And this is why I keep banging on about it ............

''In modern Britain, hunger has become normal. That is an outrage''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/21/britain-hunger-food-poverty


































i thought you may have had

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes, Sydney. If that's the case it is definitely time to say goodbye to the big two parties and vote for an alternative one that Wants Fundamental Political Change.

[scawsby steve]

BB

And there's the irony.

The one who REALLY thinks Leave voters are thick is Farage. After all, he plays up the anti-elite angle then assumes his supporters are too thick to get the discrepancy when 1/4 of his candidates have City of London or similar backgrounds.

The one who REALLY thinks you're undemocratic is Farage. He assumes that he can ride a coach and horses through electoral law, and you won't give a f**k about it because you don't believe in democracy.

The one who REALLY thinks you have no commonsense is Farage. Because when he's explaining about why it was OK for him to be bankrolled by a businessman to the tune of £400k for a Mayfair flat and a chauffeur driven Range Rover and first class flights to America at the same time as pocketing €9000/month plus expenses from the European Parliament, he says it was OK, because he was planning his life after politics. How thick must he think you are if he assumes you will not see through that one?!?

The same way that Nick Clegg, Vince Cable, and the rest of the sleazebags regarded Lib Dem voters as being thick and without common sense in 2010?

[SydneyRover]

May's 10 points to amend that WaB, the key statement is ''for the life of this parliament'' so whatever workers rights, backstop etc etc when the period is up it's everyone for themselves, does anyone think they will get a good deal with boris in charge?

from the evil Guardian:

1. Alternative arrangements

What is it? A pledge to seek another way to solve the Northern Irish backstop conundrum by finding different border plans, most likely involving technology, before the backstop deadline of December 2020.

Who will like it? It is aimed at Tory Brexiters and the Democratic Unionist party, but the pledge is not new and too woolly to be worth much.

2. Keeping Northern Ireland aligned

What is it? A promise that if the backstop does come into force, Northern Ireland will stay aligned with the rest of the UK on regulations and customs rather than be separated by a border in the Irish Sea.

Who will like it? See point one. This is aimed at the same people, and they will be similarly underwhelmed.

3. MPs’ approval

What is it? It says “negotiating objectives and final treaties” must be approved by MPs.

Who will like it? In theory, a broad range of MPs will be encouraged by this guarantee of their role. In reality, it makes little difference.

4. Workers’ rights

What is it? A promised new bill guaranteeing that workers’ rights in the UK will not lag behind those in the EU.

Who will like it? Labour MPs in leave seats, although this has already been promised several times and is thus factored in.

5. Environmental protection

What is it? Similar to the above point, a guarantee that standards will not dip below EU ones, with a new independent watchdog to monitor this.

Who will like it? Mainly Labour MPs and green-minded Tories, though again, apart from the promised watchdog, this is nothing new.

6. Frictionless trade

What is it? A promise to seek “as close to frictionless trade in goods with the EU as possible while outside the single market and ending free movement”.

Who will like it? This is essentially a restatement of the blindingly obvious implied by May’s longstanding commitments, so it’s hard to see how it will impress anyone.

7. Just-in time supply chains

What is it? A pledge to match EU rules for goods and agrifood products that might otherwise face border checks, thus avoiding excess delays for businesses.

Who will like it? As with six, it’s not so much that anyone will object to this as whether it can be delivered.

8. A ‘customs compromise’

What is it? MPs will be allowed to decide on post-Brexit customs arrangements – but from a choice of a temporary customs unions or May’s existing plan for a “customs arrangement”.

Who will like it? Potentially, no one. Some Tories will dislike the prospect of even a temporary customs union; Labour MPs want a permanent one, which is not on offer.

9. Second referendum

What is it? A guarantee of a Commons vote on whether the final deal should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.

Who will like it? Again, possibly not very many people. Opponents of a second referendum will dislike the concession; those who back the idea want a guarantee of a new public vote.

10. Changes to political declaration

What is it? A “legal duty” to secure the necessary changes to the political declaration added to the deal with the EU to reflect the changes.

Who will like it? This also seems like a completely obvious thing to do, raising the possibility it was mainly added to the list to round it up to 10.

It appears that the conservatives have been outmanoeuvred by the feckless May, cannot get rid of her unless she agrees to go.

''Theresa May proves herself the woman who has nothing for everyone''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/21/theresa-may-proves-herself-the-woman-who-ha

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And yet it still will not get through will it?

A very senior person in my business yesterday summed it up by saying frankly it does not matter what Brexit we get but that we end it one way or another as the uncertainty is what kills us.

I think we could all agree we want it sorting one way or another.....