No Brexit Extension

[SydneyRover]

If only the Tories weren't voted in in 2010 then we wouldn't be having Brexit, even if we still had a referendum. 2010 started austerity which then caused people losing jobs, becoming poorer, etc which allowed Brexiteers to blame on foreigners and the EU, "everything would be different if we were out". People bought into that and here we are. At a time, 2010, when as a country we should have been getting the economy going again we stopped spending which as a result has potentially caused long term hardship.

When the tories talk about levelling up they actually mean razing to the ground.

This: ''Labour councils in England hit harder by austerity than Tory areas
Exclusive: analysis by Guardian and Sigoma shows poorer, Labour-held areas lost over a third of spending power''

‘'In his budget speech on 22 June, 2010, Osborne said his plans would be fair and would protect “the most vulnerable in society” while eliminating the government’s budget deficit.

But the new analysis reveals that, on average, Labour councils saw their spending power reduced by 34%, while the average Conservative council suffered an equivalent decline of less than a quarter (24%). Of the 50 councils which received the deepest budget cuts, 28 were Labour controlled in 2010, while just six were Conservative. The remainder were Liberal Democrat controlled (two) or had no overall control (14)’’

The disparity grew by the end of the decade, with 38 of the 50 worst-hit councils being Labour-controlled while only five were Conservative authorities.

Hackney council reported the biggest percentage cut of any council, losing £180m in real terms, a 41% decline in its spending power. Newham, another east London borough, and Knowsley and Manchester in the north-west of England all suffered similarly deep cuts. All are also Labour areas with high levels of deprivation.

Labour council leaders from the worst-hit areas have told the Guardian that the cuts were so politically skewed as to feel like electoral manipulation. Graham Morgan, Labour leader of Knowsley council, said the targeting of Labour authorities was
“deliberate, and the equivalent of gerrymandering. Funding of some of the most affluent areas increased while ours decreased.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/21/exclusive-labour-councils-in-england-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas

[Not Now Kato]

This is taking back control....
 
https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021/business-travel-extra-requirements
 
Here's a list of the countries within the EU, (including countries who have trade deals with them), who will require us as a 3rd country to comply with their specific rules....
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/providing-services-to-eea-and-efta-countries-after-eu-exit
 
Let's just have a look at just one of the main ones....
 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/france-providing-services-after-eu-exit
 
You really do have to love our 'taking back control', well, unless you've worked it out that it was a lie in the first place!

[Glyn_Wigley]

This is taking back control....
 
https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021/business-travel-extra-requirements
 
Here's a list of the countries within the EU, (including countries who have trade deals with them), who will require us as a 3rd country to comply with their specific rules....
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/providing-services-to-eea-and-efta-countries-after-eu-exit
 
Let's just have a look at just one of the main ones....
 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/france-providing-services-after-eu-exit
 
You really do have to love our 'taking back control', well, unless you've worked it out that it was a lie in the first place!

Us 'taking back control' also means the EU doing the same when we interact with them after Brexit. Some people don't seem to grasp this.

[Not Now Kato]

This is taking back control....
 
https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021/business-travel-extra-requirements
 
Here's a list of the countries within the EU, (including countries who have trade deals with them), who will require us as a 3rd country to comply with their specific rules....
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/providing-services-to-eea-and-efta-countries-after-eu-exit
 
Let's just have a look at just one of the main ones....
 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/france-providing-services-after-eu-exit
 
You really do have to love our 'taking back control', well, unless you've worked it out that it was a lie in the first place!

Us 'taking back control' also means the EU doing the same when we interact with them after Brexit. Some people don't seem to grasp this.

They only have to make one change, we have to make how many.... Some people don't seem to grasp this.

[DonnyOsmond]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-stanley-johnson-boris-french-passport-rachel-book-rakes-progress-a9416636.html

Is this satire?

[Not Now Kato]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-stanley-johnson-boris-french-passport-rachel-book-rakes-progress-a9416636.html

Is this satire?

In fairness, he's always been a supporter of the EU and can see the advantages of being part of it.  Pity so many people failed to see those advantages and were seduced by so many lies!

[drfchound]

 

[idler]

Boris Johnson would have been for remain if it had meant or given him a better chance of becoming PM.
That is the sad thing

[MachoMadness]

The whole family has always been pro-EU. Boris was, until he realised it'd boost his career if he argued that he wasn't.

[selby]

  Idler, your theory has just backed up the fact that in 2016 when the referendum took place, in spite of a government backing staying in, outspending by a massive margin the leave movement, and the EU leaders making statements and threats of punishment. the UK electorate voted to leave.
   Something that for four years some cannot come to terms with, and in spite of all the rhetoric, meetings in secret with EU leaders by all the opposition parties and luminaries such as Starmer, a fifth column of entertainment stars and the BBC, guess what? they lost two elections on the same ticket, the second by a landslide.
   I am expecting bodies in the rivers if we happen to get a free trade deal and things go well.

[idler]

I'm not so sure Selby. Farage might not have attracted as many Tory voters across without BJ.

[IDM]

  Idler, your theory has just backed up the fact that in 2016 when the referendum took place, in spite of a government backing staying in, outspending by a massive margin the leave movement, and the EU leaders making statements and threats of punishment. the UK electorate voted to leave.
   Something that for four years some cannot come to terms with, and in spite of all the rhetoric, meetings in secret with EU leaders by all the opposition parties and luminaries such as Starmer, a fifth column of entertainment stars and the BBC, guess what? they lost two elections on the same ticket, the second by a landslide.
   I am expecting bodies in the rivers if we happen to get a free trade deal and things go well.

Can’t come to terms with it.?

I would contend a huge amount of remain voters have come to terms with it, but many more leave voters haven’t come to terms with the car crash that brexit is actually becoming..

Wanting to get the best for the country isn’t denying the actual result..  keep your “ha ha you lost” perspective for the playground where it belongs..

[wilts rover]

  Idler, your theory has just backed up the fact that in 2016 when the referendum took place, in spite of a government backing staying in, outspending by a massive margin the leave movement, and the EU leaders making statements and threats of punishment. the UK electorate voted to leave.
   Something that for four years some cannot come to terms with, and in spite of all the rhetoric, meetings in secret with EU leaders by all the opposition parties and luminaries such as Starmer, a fifth column of entertainment stars and the BBC, guess what? they lost two elections on the same ticket, the second by a landslide.
   I am expecting bodies in the rivers if we happen to get a free trade deal and things go well.

Meetings in secret by all the opposition parties?

Does that include the ones Farage had?

And were there any other 'secret' meetings that I missed. Because the only ones I remember are the ones that were on the front pages of the newspapers with press conferences after - thats how 'secret' they were?

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Idler, your theory has just backed up the fact that in 2016 when the referendum took place, in spite of a government backing staying in, outspending by a massive margin the leave movement, and the EU leaders making statements and threats of punishment. the UK electorate voted to leave.
   Something that for four years some cannot come to terms with, and in spite of all the rhetoric, meetings in secret with EU leaders by all the opposition parties and luminaries such as Starmer, a fifth column of entertainment stars and the BBC, guess what? they lost two elections on the same ticket, the second by a landslide.
   I am expecting bodies in the rivers if we happen to get a free trade deal and things go well.

A Free Trade Agreement (which you have shown no evidence of knowing the slightest thing of understanding) will still be worse for the UK economy than remaining in the Single Market. Having said that, having an FTA will still be much better than the economic suicide of going No Deal.

[wilts rover]

But in order for there to be a FTA we will have to follow EU rules and the Northern Ireland protocol with border checks to the mainland.

Is that really Brexit?

[selby]

  Glyn, you get this We don't want to remain in the single market, with the restrictions it would place on us, can you understand that?
  Wilts stop getting your knickers in a twist, the opposition parties formed what was really a fifth column to undermine the leave campaign, they were and are disgusting in their attitude to the UK electorate.
   You and they still don't realise how counter productive the whole campaign by the leave big wigs was, and how belittling your opposition entrenched the leave voters, you failed to pick up on the fact that the bullying from all sides was just getting the cold shoulder.
   The calling people thick, uneducated, they don't know what they are doing, gammon, just got the B******s to that treatment and you still don't get it.

[drfchound]

But in order for there to be a FTA we will have to follow EU rules and the Northern Ireland protocol with border checks to the mainland.

Is that really Brexit?

Wilts, I am thinking back to those leave voters who told me they voted that way “so we can get back control of our borders”

[wilts rover]

I do keep asking hound but no one seems prepared to say exactly what it is we should be expecting to see for this to be a 'good' agreement.

Lower nuclear safety standards, lower food standards, greater capacity for money laundering - thats what the govenment appear to want. Is this what the people who voted Leave want?

What would be a good deal? What would be a bad one?

[wilts rover]

  Glyn, you get this We don't want to remain in the single market, with the restrictions it would place on us, can you understand that?
  Wilts stop getting your knickers in a twist, the opposition parties formed what was really a fifth column to undermine the leave campaign, they were and are disgusting in their attitude to the UK electorate.
   You and they still don't realise how counter productive the whole campaign by the leave big wigs was, and how belittling your opposition entrenched the leave voters, you failed to pick up on the fact that the bullying from all sides was just getting the cold shoulder.
   The calling people thick, uneducated, they don't know what they are doing, gammon, just got the B******s to that treatment and you still don't get it.

Selby, there's only one person here getting there knickers in a twist and it ain't me. It's not me claiming that well advertised meetings with press conferences afterwards were 'secret'.

I don't care about the campaign anymore. I have accepted the result - it seems you can't. You won. Get over it. Tell us all how great it is going to be now because...

[SydneyRover]

I've always been intrigued by those that could persuade suicide bombers that they would have a better future if they would just release the trigger. 

[Glyn_Wigley]

But in order for there to be a FTA we will have to follow EU rules and the Northern Ireland protocol with border checks to the mainland.

Is that really Brexit?

In order to have an FTA both we and the EU will have to follow rules that we decide between ourselves. I would imagine that the rules that are already used for movements between the EU and third countries would be the default.

Border checks - wherever the Customs Border between the UK and the EU is deemed to be - are inevitable once we leave the Single Market, even if we have an FTA. Don't let anyone bullshit you with the 'we don't know what the arrangements are going be' waffle, there will be checks.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Glyn, you get this We don't want to remain in the single market, with the restrictions it would place on us, can you understand that?

The whole point of the Single Market is doing away with restrictions, can you understand that??

[drfchound]

I do keep asking hound but no one seems prepared to say exactly what it is we should be expecting to see for this to be a 'good' agreement.

Lower nuclear safety standards, lower food standards, greater capacity for money laundering - thats what the govenment appear to want. Is this what the people who voted Leave want?

What would be a good deal? What would be a bad one?

I don’t think anyone actually knows what a good or a bad deal is wilts.
To be fair, we could end up in a better position, but then again we might not.
Only the passing of time will answer that, probably a long time.
In about ten years someone will post in here and tell us that they knew all along what the outcome was going to be (with the benefit of hindsight of course).

[Not Now Kato]

I do keep asking hound but no one seems prepared to say exactly what it is we should be expecting to see for this to be a 'good' agreement.

Lower nuclear safety standards, lower food standards, greater capacity for money laundering - thats what the govenment appear to want. Is this what the people who voted Leave want?

What would be a good deal? What would be a bad one?

I don’t think anyone actually knows what a good or a bad deal is wilts.
To be fair, we could end up in a better position, but then again we might not.
Only the passing of time will answer that, probably a long time.
In about ten years someone will post in here and tell us that they knew all along what the outcome was going to be (with the benefit of hindsight of course).

Hound, how on God's green earth can we end up in a better position?  Tell me one club on the planet where you can get a better deal not being a member than members of that club can.
 
People were seduced by lies and false promises. Where are all these unicorns going to come from?  It should be quite clear by now that they don't need us more than we need them!

[SydneyRover]

I do keep asking hound but no one seems prepared to say exactly what it is we should be expecting to see for this to be a 'good' agreement.

Lower nuclear safety standards, lower food standards, greater capacity for money laundering - thats what the govenment appear to want. Is this what the people who voted Leave want?

What would be a good deal? What would be a bad one?

That's crap hound a good deal is a deal better than what is available today one that serves people's needs better, how the hell do you think with less bargaining power that a better deal could be obtained with anyone, only with the passing of time????

So if lower food standards, worse conditions for workers, curtailed human rights are used to gain worse trade deals how long do you think it will take the populace to notice?






I don’t think anyone actually knows what a good or a bad deal is wilts.
To be fair, we could end up in a better position, but then again we might not.
Only the passing of time will answer that, probably a long time.
In about ten years someone will post in here and tell us that they knew all along what the outcome was going to be (with the benefit of hindsight of course).

[drfchound]

Two of the Leftwaffe out early today.
As I said, we won’t know for a few years.
Of course a good deal is better than a bad one.
Do you know for a fact that we won’t get a good deal or that other countries won’t want to deal with us (that’s the UK by the way SR).

I agree though NNK, the voters were deceived by lies by the Brexit people.
 

[IDM]

“Leftwaffe”

Really.?  You’re better than that surely.?

[Not Now Kato]

Two of the Leftwaffe out early today.
As I said, we won’t know for a few years.
Of course a good deal is better than a bad one.
Do you know for a fact that we won’t get a good deal or that other countries won’t want to deal with us (that’s the UK by the way SR).

I agree though NNK, the voters were deceived by lies by the Brexit people.

I would love to know how we can get a better deal with the EU than the one we had before we decided to leave.  Even a supposed good deal, (whatever that turns out to be - if anything), can never be as good - it would be pointless for the EU to exist otherwise, they simply can't treat us as equal to the members of their club let alone better!
 
Have you looked at those links I posted earlier, from out own Government, telling business in the UK what they will have to do to trade with each individual nation in the EU?  Have you considered the implications on UK business?
 
Oh, and we already trade with the rest of the world via trade deals struck with the EU.  Do you, or anyone here, think that we as a small island can get better deals with the rest of the world than the ones we had as part of the EU?  Have a look what New Zealand think....
 
https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/06/18/nz-ready-to-get-heavy-with-the-uk/
 
It isn't about being left, or right, or centre; it's about what's best for this country.  Why would anyone in their right mind want to downgrade?
 
But I am glad you agree that those who voted Leave were deceived by the lies of the Leave Campaigns; sadly, we're now about to pay the price for that.

[SydneyRover]

I suppose that why various businesses form trade groups, take plumbers merchants for instance a few of them could get together and form a commercial alliance buy in bulk and get a better discount from an OEM or supplier that sort of thing. It's fairly straight forward no magic about it.

[selby]

  Well I accept that people have different views to me, but I think that the biggest difference between us is that I absolutely defend your right to do so, but it would be nice and a change for you lot to try and do so without belittling and insulting other peoples views and accept that others do not agree.
   That is one of the remains biggest problems, reading the populations mood, and what they wanted. which caused entrenchment and resentment, something that a political movement can never overcome.
   Lose someone and they are very hard to recover, the Labour movement in this country will have to learn to live with that.