Brexit deal

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because free movement of workers is integral to being in the Single Market. Every person in the EU has the right to move to other EU countries to work and set up residence. Abrogating that right automatically puts you outside the SM and would badly damage our economy.

We CAN refuse entry to people who are legally undesirable or are moving with no intention of working.

By the way, both Norway and Switzerland buy into free movement rules because of the economic advantages that accrue from the resultant tie ins with the EU economy.

But when we voted to leave the EU we voted to leave the single market.

If that's your end point, why the f**k did you ask me that question in the first place?

It's almost as if you're not really interested in discussing things like a grown up and just prefer dicking about.

What I meant to add was it was because free movement of workers is integral to being in the Single Market why we voted to leave.

Yes, I appreciate that. And I've said throughout the past 3 years that a big part of that was due to calculated deception of voters by Farage. He consistently put Norway forward as an example of what sort of relationship with the EU we could aspire to have outside the EU, whilst never once saying that Norway was part of the free movement agreement.

In simple terms, Leave voters were deceived into believing that we could opt out of all the bits they didn't like (like free movement, paying into the EU, accepting EU market regulations) and keep all the bits we did like (like trade with the EU on terms as advantageous as at present).

They weren't making a balanced decision between what we would gain and what we would lose.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right. Ok.

So. I'll ask for the ninth or tenth time.

What specific things do you think we would have got from a deal with the EU if we'd all shown a bit more of the Dunkirk Spirit.

Simple enough question and I KNOW that you've thought about it a lot because you raise this issue once a fortnight.

So tell us. What specific things should we have got from the EU?

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't know specifically what we should have achieved if we'd been united. Unlike you, I'm one of those Remain voters who can't read the future, but it almost certainly didn't help matters being split down the middle. Perhaps the EU, on seeing the public split along with the BBC bias might be hoping for a second referendum, and on that basis are unwilling to offer anything better than the deal already offered.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So once again we get a null answer to a straightforward question.

BB, like pretty much everyone who supports Leave, has no idea why they dislike the EU's approach to the Brexit negotiations. But they just do.

And it's all the fault of the Remainers.

I know this seems like one of those f**king daft nightmares that you will wake up from at any moment, but it's here, now and defining the country our kids will grow up in. Grand, int it?

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes BST, it is very much the fault of the Remainers in my opinion. It's the Remainers approach to the Brexit negotiations that I dislike so much, and I know I'm not alone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So you've no idea why the negotiations were shit and you've no idea what more we should have got from them, but you know it's Remainers to blame?

And like Trump often claims: A lot of people are saying this.

Does that sum up tonight's excursion?

[Bentley Bullet]

You said they were shit, not me! I say they failed because they didn't get the votes needed to succeed. The problem is, Remainers wouldn't have agreed to them no matter how good they were, and even pretend Remainers like Corbyn wouldn't have agreed to them either. Remainers all over the country from the very top right down to third division off-topic football forums would have all rejected the negotiations.

[SydneyRover]

It doesn't matter if you don't know what you want why are you crying about it?

[Bentley Bullet]

Is that a question for Billy or me?

[SydneyRover]

Is that a question for Billy or me?

I wouldn't under any circumstance think that BST didn't know what he wanted.

[Bentley Bullet]

Ah, you mean a second referendum. A typical example of a bloke who knows what he wants and is crying about it.

I see what you mean.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

The Parliamentary arithmetic is simple.

If the right wing of the Tory party, which campaigned most vigorously for Brexit, had voted for May's deal, we'd have already left the EU.

You've been given lots of chances to criticise the right wing of the Tory party and you've ducked every one. You've instead chosen to blame Remainers for us not leaving the EU yet.

So I'll ask you a really,really simple couple of questions. What is it that the right wing of the Tory party didn't like about May's deal? And why is it the fault of Remainers that the EU weren't able to give us a deal that would have satisfied the right wing of the Tory party?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ah, you mean a second referendum. A typical example of a bloke who knows what he wants and is crying about it.

I see what you mean.

So you just ignore the numerous times I've said I'd take a Norway-type deal?

I don't know what you get out of this, but I truly hope it's worth it.

[Bentley Bullet]

 The Tory right-wing rejected the deal because of the backstop agreement. They wanted to leave but didn't think the deal was right. The Remainers, on the other hand, wanted to reject everything in order to have a second referendum.

[Bentley Bullet]

Ah, you mean a second referendum. A typical example of a bloke who knows what he wants and is crying about it.

I see what you mean.

So you just ignore the numerous times I've said I'd take a Norway-type deal?

I don't know what you get out of this, but I truly hope it's worth it.

Isn't it funny how you didn't agree with Farage at the time he suggested a Norway type agreement!

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Tory right-wing rejected the deal because of the backstop agreement. They wanted to leave but didn't think the deal was right. The Remainers, on the other hand, wanted to reject everything in order to have a second referendum.

No, no, no. That doesn't work.

I asked what the EU should have done to make the deal acceptable to the right wing of the Tory party.

We've been through this many times. The Tory party under May took the decision to own the Brexit negotiations. THEY decided to put party politics above the wonderful coalition of national unity that you desire. They entirely excluded everyone else from having any input whatsoever in the negotiations.

And then they came up with a deal that the right wing of the Tory party rejected.

So I'll ask you again.

What deal should the EU have offered that would have been acceptable to the right wing of the Tory party.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ah, you mean a second referendum. A typical example of a bloke who knows what he wants and is crying about it.

I see what you mean.

So you just ignore the numerous times I've said I'd take a Norway-type deal?

I don't know what you get out of this, but I truly hope it's worth it.

Isn't it funny how you didn't agree with Farage at the time he suggested a Norway type agreement!

No BB. Come on. You're better than this.

We talked about this a few weeks ago. I never believed Farage was serious about a Norway deal. He was bullshitting the gullible. So of course I didn't agree with him...


....and anyway, in 2016 I wouldn't have agreed with him anyway would I? Because I think a Norway deal would be much worse than Remaining. So of course I wouldn't have wanted a Norway deal before the Referendum. I wanted us to Remain.

By late 2016, I'd have accepted a Norway deal as the least bad outcome of Brexit. But Farage was already moving on to a Norway deal being a betrayal by then (who'd have thought he'd do that eh? Shock! Horror!) And by late 2016, May was interpreting Brexit as meaning so ethi g far more detached than Norway's arrangement. And refusing to discuss that decision with anyone. So Norway's not been in the table since late 2016. Not because of Remainers' decisions. Because the Tory party and those to the right of them decided it wasn't acceptable.

Like I say. We went through this a couple or three weeks back. You seem to be struggling with your memory. Maybe you should take a moment to read what I think rather than thi k what you want me to think? It'd save both of us a lot of time and effort.

[Bentley Bullet]

Well, Billy boy, not being a right-wing Tory member I don't know! Perhaps you're a closet right-wing Tory member and you know? All I know is what I've already told you owd lad.

What do you think would have been acceptable to the right-wing of the Tory party?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

I've said it consistently for 3 years.

NOTHING would have been acceptable to the right wing of the Tory party.

Because this was never about Brexit. It was about who controls the Tory party.

They've won that battle. And they've used their useful idiots with their passions about the EU and the sanctity of the democratic process to do the job for them.

Congratulations. You've done your job.

[Bentley Bullet]

And what job have I done! Sorry, but I really have to laugh sometimes!!

[Bentley Bullet]

You've done the job better than me. You've made the Remain vote a choice of the obnoxious!

[BillyStubbsTears]

"You" plural.

The millions of you who have naively bought into this idea that you were standing up for democracy, by falling into line with the Hard Brexiters. Those of you who thought (bless) that you were upholding a principle, when what you were really doing was putting the shits up the Tory party that if they didn't take us into a hard Brexit, they'd be turfed out so they'd better pass the reins onto Boris and the nutter wing of the party.

That's what the whole issue has been about all along.

[Bentley Bullet]

All that's far too clever for me owd lad! Maybe the Russians have invaded the Viking site and took over the brain cells of all the members that actually possess some. bas**rds! They dint get me though!!

I rate like Boris me!!!

[albie]

BB/BST,

Get yourselves a room, Lads!
The homo erotic tension of your jousting might be too much for the weak minded.

In fact, we could have a whip round on here, for you both to go off and consummate,
a game of "Bite the Bentley Bullet with a quick Blubbery Stubbery" .

It might let us all get back to the matter in hand!

[SydneyRover]

I think I have whiplash from the spin!

John McDonnell's threat to embroil Queen if PM defies confidence vote branded a 'coup'

''The shadow chancellor suggested he would send Jeremy Corbyn to Buckingham Palace “in a cab” to tell the 93-year-old monarch the party was ready to assume power, in the latest sign that MPs seeking to stop a no-deal Brexit are planning to embroil Her Majesty in politics as they run out of parliamentary options''

About time the old girl got off her backside and actually did something.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/07/john-mcdonnell-threatens-march-palace-tell-queen-taking-boris1/

[SydneyRover]

Australia sending its best to support brexit.

Tony Abbott used to promote pro-Brexit group despite having 'no affiliation'

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/08/tony-abbott-used-to-promote-pro-brexit-group-despite-having-no-affiliation

Watch the video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT9XS_TvzQ

[Herbert Anchovy]

I still believe that the UK COULD be better off outside of the EU. However, it absolutely sickens me to the core that this issue has become hijacked by the Tory right. When I voted to leave in 2016 never for one moment did I believe that it would eventually lead to BJ becoming PM and his lunatic pals getting their hands on power. When I voted to leave I expected a sensible withdrawal where we would maintain close economic ties with the EU whilst withdrawing from the political influence it has. Unfortunately it's turned into a bloodbath. Who's at fault? As with most things, blame doesn't lay with one side. Remain supporting MP's would have voted down any agreement that the PM had come back with. Indeed, very soon after the referendum I heard an MP on the radio state, categorically, that they would use Parliament to stop Brexit. Full stop. On the other end of the scale, the hard Brexit MPs didn't want any agreement. They want a complete withdrawal from the EU with no compromise whatsoever and they're also savvy enough to use this to get power in the Tory party which, as BST correctly points out, is the real reason behind all of this.

[Filo]

I still believe that the UK COULD be better off outside of the EU. However, it absolutely sickens me to the core that this issue has become hijacked by the Tory right. When I voted to leave in 2016 never for one moment did I believe that it would eventually lead to BJ becoming PM and his lunatic pals getting their hands on power. When I voted to leave I expected a sensible withdrawal where we would maintain close economic ties with the EU whilst withdrawing from the political influence it has. Unfortunately it's turned into a bloodbath. Who's at fault? As with most things, blame doesn't lay with one side. Remain supporting MP's would have voted down any agreement that the PM had come back with. Indeed, very soon after the referendum I heard an MP on the radio state, categorically, that they would use Parliament to stop Brexit. Full stop. On the other end of the scale, the hard Brexit MPs didn't want any agreement. They want a complete withdrawal from the EU with no compromise whatsoever and they're also savvy enough to use this to get power in the Tory party which, as BST correctly points out, is the real reason behind all of this.

I voted leave, and those feelings are echoed by me, given a 2nd referendum I would vote to stay on the basis that I am now informed on the outcome of leaving, in 2016 nothingwas made clear at all

[Bentley Bullet]

We All know more now than we did back in 2016. The annoying thing is Remainers deny that. Remainers claim to have known how everything would pan out from the start. That's why they insist on trying to control the minds of anyone who dares show any positivity about leaving the EU by calling them thick, stupid, childish berks and the likes of. And that's not all. Their negativity and sheer determination for Brexit to fail has directed the course of events, leading to low confidence in investments while also providing the EU with more ammunition to treat us like shit.

[SydneyRover]

Everyone knows more than we did three years ago the problem for Remainers is getting the Anti-UK leavers is for them to explain what all the advantages are or even to explain what they want.