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So it appears that the deal that is emerging is identical in principle to the one that May agreed with the EU in November 2018, and which the ERG and DUP said was unacceptable. (That's the one before the backstop was introduced.)There'll be plenty of flannel claiming it's fundamentally different, which you can buy into if that's what you want. But it's the same deal.
Quote from: Donnywolf on October 16, 2019, 02:28:28 pmI still hang my head in despair at what is the biggest single political mess I have lived through WHICHEVER way you personally have voted.I still hate people saying as Ian Duncan Smith did this morning " people write to me and talk to me and stop me on the street and just say - "lets just get this done" we have had a vote and we want it finished NOW"I suspect he knows (or suspects that if a second Referendum turns up) the likely outcome to "finish it" would end in a Remain vote. The latest Poll of Polls shows Remain if offered would come out somewhere like 54 - 46 and thats why that abysmal bloke ......Baker MP just wants a "tolerable" deal that he and others can vote for rather than lose the prize they have worked , schemed and subverted the last Referendums result forWhat a selfish git he and others like him are. Throw us to the Wolves so he / they can cheer their own greatness I'm not so sure the polls at all show that. The biggest was a Comres poll published this morning of 26000 people (big for a poll) which did not at all show that (42% for remain, 50% leave (out of 2 options), 8% don't knows. But it is just one poll.
I still hang my head in despair at what is the biggest single political mess I have lived through WHICHEVER way you personally have voted.I still hate people saying as Ian Duncan Smith did this morning " people write to me and talk to me and stop me on the street and just say - "lets just get this done" we have had a vote and we want it finished NOW"I suspect he knows (or suspects that if a second Referendum turns up) the likely outcome to "finish it" would end in a Remain vote. The latest Poll of Polls shows Remain if offered would come out somewhere like 54 - 46 and thats why that abysmal bloke ......Baker MP just wants a "tolerable" deal that he and others can vote for rather than lose the prize they have worked , schemed and subverted the last Referendums result forWhat a selfish git he and others like him are. Throw us to the Wolves so he / they can cheer their own greatness
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1184529443471142913?s=19Well done Brexiteers, the IRA are back.
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on October 16, 2019, 04:16:18 pmQuote from: Donnywolf on October 16, 2019, 02:28:28 pmI still hang my head in despair at what is the biggest single political mess I have lived through WHICHEVER way you personally have voted.I still hate people saying as Ian Duncan Smith did this morning " people write to me and talk to me and stop me on the street and just say - "lets just get this done" we have had a vote and we want it finished NOW"I suspect he knows (or suspects that if a second Referendum turns up) the likely outcome to "finish it" would end in a Remain vote. The latest Poll of Polls shows Remain if offered would come out somewhere like 54 - 46 and thats why that abysmal bloke ......Baker MP just wants a "tolerable" deal that he and others can vote for rather than lose the prize they have worked , schemed and subverted the last Referendums result forWhat a selfish git he and others like him are. Throw us to the Wolves so he / they can cheer their own greatness I'm not so sure the polls at all show that. The biggest was a Comres poll published this morning of 26000 people (big for a poll) which did not at all show that (42% for remain, 50% leave (out of 2 options), 8% don't knows. But it is just one poll.I have seen (couldnt be bothered to read) this really long piece by Prof Curtice - the bloke they have on for every election these daysThis was the bit I focussed on (after he talked about it on TV this morning) :True, as has been the position ever since our poll of polls series began at the beginning of 2018, the balance of support is now tilted in favour of Remain rather than, as in the referendum, in favour of Leave. Indeed, the current average of Remain 52%, Leave 48% is the exact mirror image of what emerged from the ballot boxes in June 2016.However, this does not mean that there is a discernible, key group of Leave voters who have changed their minds about Brexit. That much becomes clear if, as in the table below, we examine separately the current vote intentions of those who voted Remain in 2016 and those who backed Leave. In both cases over 85% say they would vote exactly the same way as they did in 2016. The sound and fury of the last three years has left the vast majority of voters unmoved. And although 8% of those who backed Leave say that they would now vote Remain, they are counterbalanced by 8% of Remain supporters who indicate that they would now support Leave.The principal reason why public opinion is now tilted towards Remain is because, as we have noted before, those who did not vote three years ago prefer Remain to Leave by around two to one (if they express a view at all). In part, at least, this reflects the fact that this group of abstainers consists disproportionately of younger voters who in general are more likely to back Remain. However, it also suggests that, far from being certain to produce a majority for Remain, the outcome of a second referendum could turn on the ability or otherwise of the Remain side to mobilise the support of a group of voters who cannot necessarily be relied upon to vote at all... and if you or anybody else has too much time on their hands it comes from this monster article.https://whatukthinks.org/eu/author/johncurtice/
1 MP who was facing deselection leaves the party and that's a disaster.21 Tory MPs get booted out last month including two ex-Chancellors and it's no big deal.