Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: wilts rover on September 28, 2023, 10:26:56 pm
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I notice that claims by the actual Home Secretary in the Heil on Sunday about the ethnicity of grooming have officailly been stated as false today and the paper ordered to print an apology and correction.
Not that you would know it by the lack of coverage in the press and tv, especially the Heil themselves. Seems like a Tory politician being outed as a liar isn't news anymore.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/suella-braverman-child-grooming-gangs-153512587.html
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What's that make Starmer and the Labour party then?
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Government-in-waiting I guess
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''UK households face tax rise of £3,500 a year by next election, finds IFS
Thinktank says Tories have overseen the biggest increase in taxes during a parliament since records began in 1951''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
Got your tickets to the conference yet?
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This thread soon went away from the OP then.
Jeeeez.
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''UK households face tax rise of £3,500 a year by next election, finds IFS
Thinktank says Tories have overseen the biggest increase in taxes during a parliament since records began in 1951''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
Got your tickets to the conference yet?
all you ever want is more gov spending why are you moaning about taxes?
let me guess you wanted more gov support on covid, bills and mortgages? longer lockdowns too
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I posted something about the government you are so defensive about, yet you still want to talk about me, is it some sort of fetish nc?
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''UK households face tax rise of £3,500 a year by next election, finds IFS
Thinktank says Tories have overseen the biggest increase in taxes during a parliament since records began in 1951''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
Got your tickets to the conference yet?
all you ever want is more gov spending why are you moaning about taxes?
let me guess you wanted more gov support on covid, bills and mortgages? longer lockdowns too
I don't know anyone who wanted longer lockdowns.
What some of us wanted was a Government that realised that by putting off lockdowns, you made them longer once the inevitable happened. They could just about be forgiven for getting that wrong in March 2020. Getting it wrong in Autumn 2020 was utterly unforgivable, and led to tens of thousands of avoidable deaths and a far, far longer and more costly lockdown when it did happen.
That mistake must never, ever be forgotten. Nor should the Tory politicians who made that mistake.
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h well, that is how to ignore good news, guess you are old fashioned and still watch BBC news lads, and have caught the morbid bug.
I seem to remember you enjoying talking about jobs going to Frankfurt and Paris in the Banking industry, funny that.
Have a nice sad day, it seems it's what turns you on.
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h well, that is how to ignore good news, guess you are old fashioned and still watch BBC news lads, and have caught the morbid bug.
I seem to remember you enjoying talking about jobs going to Frankfurt and Paris in the Banking industry, funny that.
Have a nice sad day, it seems it's what turns you on.
GB News full of good news shock? Just goes to prove you dont watch it then - they whine and whinge just as much as you do.
Some light reading for you btw:
https://internationalbanker.com/banking/will-london-have-to-send-more-banking-jobs-to-the-eu/
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''UK households face tax rise of £3,500 a year by next election, finds IFS
Thinktank says Tories have overseen the biggest increase in taxes during a parliament since records began in 1951''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
Got your tickets to the conference yet?
all you ever want is more gov spending why are you moaning about taxes?
let me guess you wanted more gov support on covid, bills and mortgages? longer lockdowns too
The issue isn't taxes per se as is obvious, it's who is taxed, how they're taxed, the penalties on those tax avoiding, and then also about who the government gives that money to.
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''UK households face tax rise of £3,500 a year by next election, finds IFS
Thinktank says Tories have overseen the biggest increase in taxes during a parliament since records began in 1951''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
Got your tickets to the conference yet?
all you ever want is more gov spending why are you moaning about taxes?
let me guess you wanted more gov support on covid, bills and mortgages? longer lockdowns too
The issue isn't taxes per se as is obvious, it's who is taxed, how they're taxed, the penalties on those tax avoiding, and then also about who the government gives that money to.
The general public, working people, currently have their highest tax burden since the war.
The richest 10%, including city bankers and financiers, currently have their lowest tax burden since the war.
Vote Tory.
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This is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zjMEh6jnE
The woman is vile, dangerous and a stain on the human race!
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This is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zjMEh6jnE
The woman is vile, dangerous and a stain on the human race!
Anyone still insisting that both sides are the same. Have a word with yourself and ask if you REALLY are going to be happy voting in a way that keeps this piece of nastiness at the top of Govt.
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This is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zjMEh6jnE
The woman is vile, dangerous and a stain on the human race!
Where do we end us as a country if jurors acquit with their conscience instead of the facts?
Is that not the slippery slope that the video talks about?
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This is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zjMEh6jnE
The woman is vile, dangerous and a stain on the human race!
Where do we end us as a country if jurors acquit with their conscience instead of the facts?
Is that not the slippery slope that the video talks about?
In a better place than we would be when politicians, police and judges condem and imprison people due to their prejudices rather than the facts. As far too many recent cases have shown.
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This is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zjMEh6jnE
The woman is vile, dangerous and a stain on the human race!
Where do we end us as a country if jurors acquit with their conscience instead of the facts?
Is that not the slippery slope that the video talks about?
In a better place than we would be when politicians, police and judges condem and imprison people due to their prejudices rather than the facts. As far too many recent cases have shown.
Is that not what i've just posted? surely facts have to be the one and only arbiter for a juror to consider, personal feelings have nothing to do with common law and lead to exactly what you have just described.
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This is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zjMEh6jnE
The woman is vile, dangerous and a stain on the human race!
Anyone still insisting that both sides are the same. Have a word with yourself and ask if you REALLY are going to be happy voting in a way that keeps this piece of nastiness at the top of Govt.
Likewise anyone who'd vote for a puppet like Starmer, someone who amongst all his flagrant corrupt absurdities labels Pink Floyd's The Wall as antisemitic. Also as a "lawyer" claiming being anti Israel is antisemitic, and weaponising that. He's an out and out racist.
Which choice would I make between Tories and Lab - neither.
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Many have accused Roger Waters actions, wardrobe and sets as anti-semitic, has he sued at all ?
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There you go, that's the voice of a Starmerite :facepalm:
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Start a fresh topic on the subject and put up your eveidence
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There already is a thread on the subject Syd.
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Start a fresh topic on the subject and put up your eveidence
Are you really that thick? If not, what is your motivation here on this issue? I gave the facts, google it.
<added>
It is on topic. Braverman is awful, no doubt, she is sick and needs help. BST argued that she is an example of why people should vote Labour, coz "you're either for 'em or against 'em". My point is that they're both sick, neither should be voted for. It's evidence that government is so corrupt, Braverman is just one face of that, and at the same time people are using her sickness to justify voting for, and so effectively approving of, other sickness. Nah.
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Start a fresh topic on the subject and put up your eveidence
Are you really that thick? If not, what is your motivation here on this issue? I gave the facts, google it.
Don't try and big yourself up you have zero credibility, go to bed
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Count the days down.
About 365 till this disgusting Poundland fascist gets booted out.
https://www.ft.com/content/ccf9c260-a98a-4b89-b604-4fa19a9f6a7c
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Lovely woman. A fine example of a ‘Caring Conservative’.
Make people homeless with your policies then wait till Winter to take their tents off them, appealing only to your dwindling core of support.
https://news.sky.com/story/suella-braverman-wants-to-restrict-use-of-tents-by-homeless-people-according-to-report-12999971
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Lovely woman. A fine example of a ‘Caring Conservative’.
Make people homeless with your policies then wait till Winter to take their tents off them, appealing only to your dwindling core of support.
https://news.sky.com/story/suella-braverman-wants-to-restrict-use-of-tents-by-homeless-people-according-to-report-12999971
did she not say remove the tents if in shop doorways? If it was your business and someome had a tent in your shop doorway would you want it removed? Maybe you could invite them on your doorstep instead or your work place
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She describes being homeless as a "lifestyle choice". A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
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I don't think many UK politicians are genuinely evil, but this woman...she is by far the nastiest, most disgusting senior UK politician of my lifetime.
She KNOWS this is what the golf club bigots who make up the Tory party membership wants to hear. She's pissing on the very weakest and most vulnerable in society to position herself for a leadership bid in what's left of the Tory party after next year's car crash election.
Absolutely reprehensible. The only saving grace is that the British people are far too humane and principled ever to elect a party run by a ghoul like her.
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She describes being homeless as a "lifestyle choice". A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
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She describes being homeless as a &quot;lifestyle choice&quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
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She describes being homeless as a &amp;quot;lifestyle choice&amp;quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
We used to have to live in a lake!
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She describes being homeless as a &quot;lifestyle choice&quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
Homelessness in such numbers is the consequence of a failed government , homelessness has increased by 73% since 2010 .
Even during Thatcher's hatchet job on the industrial working class did you see our towns and city centres contain so many homeless people .
This is a country that has more foodbanks than we have MacDonald's restaurants .
Does personal responsibility come in to it ? , of course it does and there are always going to be people who can't be reached as there are people who simply don't want to work .
Once you start stripping away the support systems like mental health or drug addiction centres or indeed the NHS itself then that is a political choice you've made .
As I said earlier we've had some grim economic times in my lifetime in this country but you never saw this kind of social deprivation that we see today .
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She describes being homeless as a &quot;lifestyle choice&quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
Supporting evidence would be helpful bp, such as official homeless numbers, accommodation/bed numbers and of course information on why people became homeless on the first place.
btw, having a roof over your head and being poor are not mutually exclusive.
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She describes being homeless as a &amp;quot;lifestyle choice&amp;quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
Homelessness in such numbers is the consequence of a failed government , homelessness has increased by 73% since 2010 .
Even during Thatcher's hatchet job on the industrial working class did you see our towns and city centres contain so many homeless people .
This is a country that has more foodbanks than we have MacDonald's restaurants .
Does personal responsibility come in to it ? , of course it does and there are always going to be people who can't be reached as there are people who simply don't want to work .
Once you start stripping away the support systems like mental health or drug addiction centres or indeed the NHS itself then that is a political choice you've made .
As I said earlier we've had some grim economic times in my lifetime in this country but you never saw this kind of social deprivation that we see today .
The Blair Govt set out to end rough sleeping and homelessness in 1999. They'd inherited an epidemic of rough sleeping from 18 years of Tory Govt.
By 2005, they'd got rough sleeping numbers nationwide down to 500.
500. In the entire country.
Think back 18 years. You had to go a long way to find anyone sleeping rough.
Then these Kitsons got back in.
I'm shortly going out for my regular evening walk. I'm going to walk the 6km or so into the centre of Sheffield and back. I'll walk past at least 20 rough sleepers.
Mark this well. This does not have to happen. Blair's Govt proved that. It happens when a Govt doesn't prioritise sorting it. And then you get a ghoul like Braverman feasting on the misery.
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
Bpool
You can reduce it to the baseline of very difficult cases.
We KNOW that can be done, because the Blair Govt did it 20 years ago. There's no argument about whether it can be done. The question is, does a Govt WANT to do it?
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
How's the war on drugs going, if as you say that is the answer?
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
How's the war on drugs going, if as you say that is the answer?
war on drugs? What do you mean? Councils will not and rightly so house a current heroin addict unless going into rehab, whats that got to do with war on drugs?
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
Substance abuse is a consequence of becoming homeless but there are many other reasons too .
Not able to afford the rent and poverty .
Leaving prison or the army without a home to go to .
Women or even men escaping abusive relationships .
16 to 18 year old young people are especially vulnerable if they are kicked out by their parents .
All the above have existed for decades in society the key difference is that since 2010 the safety and support systems have systematically been reduced and that is a political choice .
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
How's the war on drugs going, if as you say that is the answer?
war on drugs? What do you mean? Councils will not and rightly so house a current heroin addict unless going into rehab, whats that got to do with war on drugs?
you tell me
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
No. It isn't.
Rough sleeping was almost eliminated during COVID because the Govt prioritised it briefly.
It can be dealt with. It's a question of wanting to. Braverman doesn't want to because it serves her purpose better to villify the homeless and stoke up anger. That's what she does. Because she is a genuinely hateful person.
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
It's a different world alright , but be under no illusions it was a political choice that's created it .
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
No. It isn't.
Rough sleeping was almost eliminated during COVID because the Govt prioritised it briefly.
It can be dealt with. It's a question of wanting to. Braverman doesn't want to because it serves her purpose better to villify the homeless and stoke up anger. That's what she does. Because she is a genuinely hateful person.
was it
?you must not actually get out and about then, and mussy read the papers or believe everything you read bst
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
No. It isn't.
Rough sleeping was almost eliminated during COVID because the Govt prioritised it briefly.
It can be dealt with. It's a question of wanting to. Braverman doesn't want to because it serves her purpose better to villify the homeless and stoke up anger. That's what she does. Because she is a genuinely hateful person.
im not saying she is not a hateful person but if you think you are in dreamworld if you think most prople were off the streets
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
How's the war on drugs going, if as you say that is the answer?
war on drugs? What do you mean? Councils will not and rightly so house a current heroin addict unless going into rehab, whats that got to do with war on drugs?
you tell me
bump
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
No. It isn't.
Rough sleeping was almost eliminated during COVID because the Govt prioritised it briefly.
It can be dealt with. It's a question of wanting to. Braverman doesn't want to because it serves her purpose better to villify the homeless and stoke up anger. That's what she does. Because she is a genuinely hateful person.
was it
?you must not actually get out and about then, and mussy read the papers or believe everything you read bst
I go out for a walk pretty much every evening.
There were very, very few people sleeping rough in Sheffield during the lockdowns. Way, way fewer than before or after.
Why do you assume I don't use my own eyes as well as reading detailed studies by professionals?
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
No. It isn't.
Rough sleeping was almost eliminated during COVID because the Govt prioritised it briefly.
It can be dealt with. It's a question of wanting to. Braverman doesn't want to because it serves her purpose better to villify the homeless and stoke up anger. That's what she does. Because she is a genuinely hateful person.
was it
?you must not actually get out and about then, and mussy read the papers or believe everything you read bst
Your own town is the victim of a failed government , I'd even say failed governments .
The last time I was there was two years ago for our away game at Blackpool .
I was shocked at what I saw , I think we'd all agree Blackpool was always edgy but today it's in a shocking state .
You've got a huge homeless community but the fault lies with the government's that have failed the town of Blackpool .
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Have you seen the met police commissioner comments when asked what a " hate march " is ? He says you'll have to ask the home secretary as she has seemingly busy joined up two words from the dictionary and I don't know...
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
How's the war on drugs going, if as you say that is the answer?
war on drugs? What do you mean? Councils will not and rightly so house a current heroin addict unless going into rehab, whats that got to do with war on drugs?
you tell me
bump
Once again Syd, you are asked a question but won’t answer and instead, ask another question yourself.
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
No. It isn't.
Rough sleeping was almost eliminated during COVID because the Govt prioritised it briefly.
It can be dealt with. It's a question of wanting to. Braverman doesn't want to because it serves her purpose better to villify the homeless and stoke up anger. That's what she does. Because she is a genuinely hateful person.
was it
?you must not actually get out and about then, and mussy read the papers or believe everything you read bst
Your own town is the victim of a failed government , I'd even say failed governments .
The last time I was there was two years ago for our away game at Blackpool .
I was shocked at what I saw , I think we'd all agree Blackpool was always edgy but today it's in a shocking state .
You've got a huge homeless community but the fault lies with the government's that have failed the town of Blackpool .
maybe so, but how do you change the homelesnes, anyone not on herion has been offered accommodation anyone on it has been offered rehab, without forcibly taking them off the street you cant do much
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First thing I'd do is make it government policy that private builders are only given planning permission for their big profit semi-detached estates if they also build a set of low-cost terraced houses on a same-sized plot of land. And build the terraces first so they can't 'forget' about them after they build the semis.
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
I see what you're doing with that comment, Blackpool. Give Braverman a pass if she was to simply redefine what it means to be classed as homeless in order to produce a reduction in the numbers. True-blue Tory or what???
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
Substance abuse is a consequence of becoming homeless but there are many other reasons too .
Not able to afford the rent and poverty .
Leaving prison or the army without a home to go to .
Women or even men escaping abusive relationships .
16 to 18 year old young people are especially vulnerable if they are kicked out by their parents .
All the above have existed for decades in society the key difference is that since 2010 the safety and support systems have systematically been reduced and that is a political choice .
I disagree with some of that. Homelessness is often a consequence of substance abuse, rarely the other way around. Substance abuse is mostly a consequence of physical and sexual abuse, broken screwed up family situations, neglect. This then usually boils down to poverty. A society where some take the riches and some are treated as chattle - capitalism, neo liberalism, free markets, conservatism, nationalism - these are the causes of substance abuse. Labour won't fix this even with someone more humanitarian than Starmer, but the tories with the likes of Braverman are simply murderous - anyone voting for a tory these days is literally sticking needles into the arms of children. Shameful.
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We will see, its a different world now to then, i hope so much they will reduce not just the numbers that are classed as homeless but the prople that beg, but time will tell
I see what you're doing with that comment, Blackpool. Give Braverman a pass if she was to simply redefine what it means to be classed as homeless in order to produce a reduction in the numbers. True-blue Tory or what???
not at all i will vote labour at the next election, unless something radically changes homelessness will not change permanently whatever government is in charge thou
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Bpool.
Once again, 1999-2010 and 2020-21 show that it CAN be greatly reduced if politicians are prepared to prioritise it.
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Bpool.
Once again, 1999-2010 and 2020-21 show that it CAN be greatly reduced if politicians are prepared to prioritise it.
it cam be reduced in the short term yes it needs to be done long term and not just in made up stats and in your preferred newspaper
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During covid they housed many homeless in travel lodges ect, that obviously cannot be a long term fix, you cannot for obvious reasons put a heroin addict amywhere near a recovering addict, same with alcohol, where do you propose to house everyone?
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Bpool.
Once again, 1999-2010 and 2020-21 show that it CAN be greatly reduced if politicians are prepared to prioritise it.
it cam be reduced in the short term yes it needs to be done long term and not just in made up stats and in your preferred newspaper
Ah, the magic wand bit, just wave it and hey presto it's fixed forever, but as bst said 'it got fixed' but who let it lapse?
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Bpool.
Once again, 1999-2010 and 2020-21 show that it CAN be greatly reduced if politicians are prepared to prioritise it.
it cam be reduced in the short term yes it needs to be done long term and not just in made up stats and in your preferred newspaper
It WAS done 25 years ago. The number of rough sleepers was reduced by 75% from 1999 to 2003. Then it stayed low until the Tories took over and stopped the programme that had done that.
It's not my job to design those programmes. But far smarter people than me did that. And it worked.
Why are you so insistent this didn't and can't happen?
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No prizes for guessing that one Billy, but a possible nobel if you can fix it.
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I think it's interesting she says being homeless is a "lifestyle choice" and stokes up hatred against homeless people so close to remembrance Sunday, given how many ex-squaddies end up on the streets. Worth remembering what she actually thinks of many of our veterans when she and those like her are parading around in their poppy.
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
Bpool
You can reduce it to the baseline of very difficult cases.
We KNOW that can be done, because the Blair Govt did it 20 years ago. There's no argument about whether it can be done. The question is, does a Govt WANT to do it?
Did some work with the homeless shelter on Union Street back then, 5pm the rough sleepers would head to the back of the Market toilets where a charity gave them A stew Bread roll and cuppa, they would then get across to Union street and get a bed and shower 8 am they would get tea and toast and emerge to shoplift and commit petty crime all day to fund their Drug habit then it was back to the Soup Kitchen at 5pm!
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What's that make Starmer and the Labour party then?
Liars and a fascist party
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She describes being homeless as a &quot;lifestyle choice&quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
Homelessness in such numbers is the consequence of a failed government , homelessness has increased by 73% since 2010 .
Even during Thatcher's hatchet job on the industrial working class did you see our towns and city centres contain so many homeless people .
This is a country that has more foodbanks than we have MacDonald's restaurants .
Does personal responsibility come in to it ? , of course it does and there are always going to be people who can't be reached as there are people who simply don't want to work .
Once you start stripping away the support systems like mental health or drug addiction centres or indeed the NHS itself then that is a political choice you've made .
As I said earlier we've had some grim economic times in my lifetime in this country but you never saw this kind of social deprivation that we see today .
https://www.facebook.com/100002563070144/posts/6662982067130496/
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She describes being homeless as a &amp;quot;lifestyle choice&amp;quot;. A fundamentally evil person, in a just world she'd meet the same end as Mussolini.
Sleeping in a muddy puddle is a lifestyle choice because you didn't choose to sleep in a clean one!
while of course it is not a lifestyle choice for yhe majority it is a choice, out of nearly 90 rough sleepers in blackpool all were offered accommodation or rehab and less than 10 percent accepted, there are many reasons for this of course but over half of the street ones begging have a flat and choose to live on the streets for different reasons
Homelessness in such numbers is the consequence of a failed government , homelessness has increased by 73% since 2010 .
Even during Thatcher's hatchet job on the industrial working class did you see our towns and city centres contain so many homeless people .
This is a country that has more foodbanks than we have MacDonald's restaurants .
Does personal responsibility come in to it ? , of course it does and there are always going to be people who can't be reached as there are people who simply don't want to work .
Once you start stripping away the support systems like mental health or drug addiction centres or indeed the NHS itself then that is a political choice you've made .
As I said earlier we've had some grim economic times in my lifetime in this country but you never saw this kind of social deprivation that we see today .
https://www.facebook.com/100002563070144/posts/6662982067130496/
They target the weakest for their own benefit, and then move up the ladder
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Both the tories and labour failed to build anywhere enough social houses,labour have come up with a plan in there last manifesto that in theory is quite a good idea, to build lots of up to date hostels, the problem being it will take years if it ever happens, they tried to build one near where i live and after 6 years of trying they gave up as there were so many objections, so the problem will be where do you build these hostels
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
Bpool
You can reduce it to the baseline of very difficult cases.
We KNOW that can be done, because the Blair Govt did it 20 years ago. There's no argument about whether it can be done. The question is, does a Govt WANT to do it?
Did some work with the homeless shelter on Union Street back then, 5pm the rough sleepers would head to the back of the Market toilets where a charity gave them A stew Bread roll and cuppa, they would then get across to Union street and get a bed and shower 8 am they would get tea and toast and emerge to shoplift and commit petty crime all day to fund their Drug habit then it was back to the Soup Kitchen at 5pm!
Life of luxury aye? any witnesses other than yourself sprot?
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You cant end rough sleeping unless you forcibly take herion uses off the street, you camt house herion uses unless they agree to rehab so what do you propose?
Bpool
You can reduce it to the baseline of very difficult cases.
We KNOW that can be done, because the Blair Govt did it 20 years ago. There's no argument about whether it can be done. The question is, does a Govt WANT to do it?
Did some work with the homeless shelter on Union Street back then, 5pm the rough sleepers would head to the back of the Market toilets where a charity gave them A stew Bread roll and cuppa, they would then get across to Union street and get a bed and shower 8 am they would get tea and toast and emerge to shoplift and commit petty crime all day to fund their Drug habit then it was back to the Soup Kitchen at 5pm!
Life of luxury aye? any witnesses other than yourself sprot?
It sounds like personal experience to me.
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I'd like more info from our cub reporter, who were they and what were their circumstances, did they have medical conditions, were they victims of traumatic incidents etc, how many of them were there? did they go around in a group as described? did you follow them all day sprot or is the information second hand?
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https://twitter.com/skydavidblevins/status/1722383367788802461
Braverman at it again. Nothing to offer but stirring up anger. THE most dangerous senior politician in my lifetime.
You can agree or disagree with people marching for a ceasefire in Gaza. Calling them "hate marchers" is simply disgusting.
And stirring up Ulster while she does it. This from a politician from a party that clung onto power with support from the DUP not long ago.
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At a cost of a billion taxpayer pounds - all for selfish gain.
BobG
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She's deliberately trying to get sacked is the rumour. Basically setting up a run for Tory leader which she's nailed on to get, I think. To be honest, the thought of living in a country run by her in 2029 is f**king terrifying.
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I swing two ways on Braverman. I see the arguments that she's skilfully setting herself up as the next Tory leader and she knows the Tory membership are ugly, racist bigots, so she has to appeal to them. That's it's a certain amount of performance art to chuck red meat to the snarling membership who need someone to despise.
But then I remember her storming out of Westminster after she'd been eliminated in the MPs' vote for Tory leader last year. She was dripping venom as she brain dumped about how our country was full of idle layabouts who wanted something for nothing.
And I'm wondering if she's actually genuinely unhinged and full of hatred.
You know they say that there are people who most despise in other people what they most fear about their own shortcomings? Braverman constantly villifies people who try to come to this country to better themselves, and people who she insists are full of hate.
We just had one Tory leader who was manifestly mentally unwell. I wonder if they are going to choose another one?
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Politicos speculating this morning
1 Sunak agrees with her views
2 Sunak scared to sack her because if he does and things do kick off at the weekend then she was right and by sacking her he was wrong.
She deemed it below her to attend Parliament this morning to answer to Yvette Cooper nd sent the Policing Chappie instead.
She is really coming across a vile hatefull person driven to appeal to the far far right in a bid to become the next leader of the Torry party JMHO
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Just in case you've forgotten, aĺl her troubles in one article
https://news.sky.com/story/suella-braverman-speeding-row-the-latest-in-a-long-line-of-controversies-12886789
I've said it before, lovely woman
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67376996
How weak is Sunak?
Braverman submitted text to No 10 to approve. Then ignored them and said what she wanted. And Sunak can't fire her.
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Or doesn't want to as she is his mouthpiece and he agrees with what she is saying?
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He'd sack her tomorrow if he could, but Braverman is influential with the far right of the party and will already be wooing MPs for a future leadership bid. If he fires her it risks civil war.
He should just sack her, of course, but once again internal Tory party drama comes before the good of the country.
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We are being led into a race and culture war
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I see Cruellas chief henchman leads his followers to China Town, flees in a taxi just before the riot police turned up. How did Mr Robinson know?
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He'd sack her tomorrow if he could, but Braverman is influential with the far right of the party and will already be wooing MPs for a future leadership bid. If he fires her it risks civil war.
He should just sack her, of course, but once again internal Tory party drama comes before the good of the country.
If he’s not sacking her for fear of the ‘right of his party’ that ‘right’ has been ensconced for nearly a decade of this government.
As for her ‘wooing’ the far right, Sunak would be better off distancing himself from that group as this sad bunch of a Tory government lurches towards utter oblivion come the GE.
Braverman can but hope (like her predecessor Pritti Patel) for a comfy seat in the Lords once the dust has settled over this abysmal shambles of a government.
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He'd sack her tomorrow if he could, but Braverman is influential with the far right of the party and will already be wooing MPs for a future leadership bid. If he fires her it risks civil war.
He should just sack her, of course, but once again internal Tory party drama comes before the good of the country.
If he’s not sacking her for fear of the ‘right of his party’ that ‘right’ has been ensconced for nearly a decade of this government.
As for her ‘wooing’ the far right, Sunak would be better off distancing himself from that group as this sad bunch of a Tory government lurches towards utter oblivion come the GE.
Braverman can but hope (like her predecessor Pritti Patel) for a comfy seat in the Lords once the dust has settled over this abysmal shambles of a government.
Ooooh no.
Braverman is not aiming for the Lord's
She wants the leadership of the Tory party.
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I swing two ways on Braverman. I see the arguments that she's skilfully setting herself up as the next Tory leader and she knows the Tory membership are ugly, racist bigots, so she has to appeal to them. That's it's a certain amount of performance art to chuck red meat to the snarling membership who need someone to despise.
But then I remember her storming out of Westminster after she'd been eliminated in the MPs' vote for Tory leader last year. She was dripping venom as she brain dumped about how our country was full of idle layabouts who wanted something for nothing.
And I'm wondering if she's actually genuinely unhinged and full of hatred.
You know they say that there are people who most despise in other people what they most fear about their own shortcomings? Braverman constantly villifies people who try to come to this country to better themselves, and people who she insists are full of hate.
We just had one Tory leader who was manifestly mentally unwell. I wonder if they are going to choose another one?
I believe you have the outlined quote the wrong way around.
People who i know that are the children of 1st generation immigrants have very high hopes and aspirations to do well and succeed in their career paths, what they find very difficult to comprehend is others who are simlar and have not fully taken advantage of the massive opportunities that have been afforded to them.
Its like all the effort and sacrifice that others, including parents and close relatives have made to ensure that they made the very best of their chances in a country that would allow them to has been wasted through a lack of application, determination and desire.
This would be something that a born and bred individual would never really be able to fully understand as they would have never had to walk in those footsteps.
We can all agree that she has said and done some very unsavoury things but did you ever think for a moment that someone in her position can see and know the magnitude of the opportunities that some people have missed out on and how frustrating it could be for an individual who has been there and done it?
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I swing two ways on Braverman. I see the arguments that she's skilfully setting herself up as the next Tory leader and she knows the Tory membership are ugly, racist bigots, so she has to appeal to them. That's it's a certain amount of performance art to chuck red meat to the snarling membership who need someone to despise.
But then I remember her storming out of Westminster after she'd been eliminated in the MPs' vote for Tory leader last year. She was dripping venom as she brain dumped about how our country was full of idle layabouts who wanted something for nothing.
And I'm wondering if she's actually genuinely unhinged and full of hatred.
You know they say that there are people who most despise in other people what they most fear about their own shortcomings? Braverman constantly villifies people who try to come to this country to better themselves, and people who she insists are full of hate.
We just had one Tory leader who was manifestly mentally unwell. I wonder if they are going to choose another one?
I’ve watched a lot of her interviews recently. I’m no body language expert but I can tell she doesn’t fully believe everything she is spouting. She’s another politician that has started an agenda based on what is probably a core belief and it’s just spiralled out of control and she’s thinks she has to keep running with it. It’s probably dragged her into a place she doesn’t want to be but taking a backward step would be detrimental to her career in her mind.
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I swing two ways on Braverman. I see the arguments that she's skilfully setting herself up as the next Tory leader and she knows the Tory membership are ugly, racist bigots, so she has to appeal to them. That's it's a certain amount of performance art to chuck red meat to the snarling membership who need someone to despise.
But then I remember her storming out of Westminster after she'd been eliminated in the MPs' vote for Tory leader last year. She was dripping venom as she brain dumped about how our country was full of idle layabouts who wanted something for nothing.
And I'm wondering if she's actually genuinely unhinged and full of hatred.
You know they say that there are people who most despise in other people what they most fear about their own shortcomings? Braverman constantly villifies people who try to come to this country to better themselves, and people who she insists are full of hate.
We just had one Tory leader who was manifestly mentally unwell. I wonder if they are going to choose another one?
I’ve watched a lot of her interviews recently. I’m no body language expert but I can tell she doesn’t fully believe everything she is spouting. She’s another politician that has started an agenda based on what is probably a core belief and it’s just spiralled out of control and she’s thinks she has to keep running with it. It’s probably dragged her into a place she doesn’t want to be but taking a backward step would be detrimental to her career in her mind.
“Audience capture is a self-reinforcing feedback loop that involves telling one's audience what they want to hear and getting rewarded for it.”
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I swing two ways on Braverman. I see the arguments that she's skilfully setting herself up as the next Tory leader and she knows the Tory membership are ugly, racist bigots, so she has to appeal to them. That's it's a certain amount of performance art to chuck red meat to the snarling membership who need someone to despise.
But then I remember her storming out of Westminster after she'd been eliminated in the MPs' vote for Tory leader last year. She was dripping venom as she brain dumped about how our country was full of idle layabouts who wanted something for nothing.
And I'm wondering if she's actually genuinely unhinged and full of hatred.
You know they say that there are people who most despise in other people what they most fear about their own shortcomings? Braverman constantly villifies people who try to come to this country to better themselves, and people who she insists are full of hate.
We just had one Tory leader who was manifestly mentally unwell. I wonder if they are going to choose another one?
I’ve watched a lot of her interviews recently. I’m no body language expert but I can tell she doesn’t fully believe everything she is spouting. She’s another politician that has started an agenda based on what is probably a core belief and it’s just spiralled out of control and she’s thinks she has to keep running with it. It’s probably dragged her into a place she doesn’t want to be but taking a backward step would be detrimental to her career in her mind.
She has one of the most senior jobs in the country. I doubt very much she is in a place she doesn't want to be.
She is playing up to the Daily Mail/GB News crowd. Neither of those two media outles have ever criticised her - nor her them.
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Just a thought.
I'm guessing Braverman must be very ill and unable to speak in public today.
Only...she's so passionate in her condemnation of "hate marchers". But so far she's not said a dicky bird about Yaxley-Lennon and his knuckle-dragging followers kicking off yesterday.
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Good to see the Met police effectively calling her out for inciting the counter protesters.
They should go a step further and arrest her.
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How many times did Schnapps mention anti semetic placards and Hamas supporters bringing it back to the march with hardly a mention of the EDL and other thugs who tried to wreck things. He obviously doesn't watch any news channel as his only comment was I heard it whilst I was laying a wreath at The Cenotaph which has now become an iconic place of worship.
And effectively agreeing with what Cruella said by refusing to condemn her article and saying they weren't the words he would have used, what would he have said I wonder?
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I'd like more info from our cub reporter, who were they and what were their circumstances, did they have medical conditions, were they victims of traumatic incidents etc, how many of them were there? did they go around in a group as described? did you follow them all day sprot or is the information second hand?
The Charity M25 ran the Union street site the Manager was Jim Steicke , the other facillities I worked with where the Organisation that now is called OPEN HOUSE, Doncaster NHS Drug Treatment services, and the Town centre CCTV unit (There’s a big clue for you there)
Most of The people I observed were long term Heroin addicts, who funded their habit by petty Crime, mainly Shoplifting and Breaking into Cars. When the shops shut they would make their way into Hexthorpe, Hyde Park and Wheatley were they would target the vulnerable 2 up 2 down Terraced housing, most of them had been kicked out by their parents who had tolerated their thieving until the day they stole the TV set, that was usually the straw that broke the Camels back. I managed to get 3 or 4 back into society but most were not interested and were happy with their lifestyle. No ex Services, when I worked in the Prisons the ex Service men. Were really heavily outreached and offered tons of support.that was a different team heavily funded by the Government ex service men’s schemes.
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How many times did Schnapps mention anti semetic placards and Hamas supporters bringing it back to the march with hardly a mention of the EDL and other thugs who tried to wreck things. He obviously doesn't watch any news channel as his only comment was I heard it whilst I was laying a wreath at The Cenotaph which has now become an iconic place of worship.
And effectively agreeing with what Cruella said by refusing to condemn her article and saying they weren't the words he would have used, what would he have said I wonder?
He's a nasty Kitson who is thinking about his place in a future Braverman-led Tory party.
He's the poster boy of the current Tory party. Perfect example of the total lack of principle and preparedness to consider any (and I mean ANY) move to further his own career.
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I'd like more info from our cub reporter, who were they and what were their circumstances, did they have medical conditions, were they victims of traumatic incidents etc, how many of them were there? did they go around in a group as described? did you follow them all day sprot or is the information second hand?
The Charity M25 ran the Union street site the Manager was Jim Steicke , the other facillities I worked with where the Organisation that now is called OPEN HOUSE, Doncaster NHS Drug Treatment services, and the Town centre CCTV unit (There’s a big clue for you there)
Most of The people I observed were long term Heroin addicts, who funded their habit by petty Crime, mainly Shoplifting and Breaking into Cars. When the shops shut they would make their way into Hexthorpe, Hyde Park and Wheatley were they would target the vulnerable 2 up 2 down Terraced housing, most of them had been kicked out by their parents who had tolerated their thieving until the day they stole the TV set, that was usually the straw that broke the Camels back. I managed to get 3 or 4 back into society but most were not interested and were happy with their lifestyle. No ex Services, when I worked in the Prisons the ex Service men. Were really heavily outreached and offered tons of support.that was a different team heavily funded by the Government ex service men’s schemes.
thanks for that sprot, don't you think people in this position should be treated as medical patients rather than criminals? keep them alive until they get off their particular habit?
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I'd like more info from our cub reporter, who were they and what were their circumstances, did they have medical conditions, were they victims of traumatic incidents etc, how many of them were there? did they go around in a group as described? did you follow them all day sprot or is the information second hand?
The Charity M25 ran the Union street site the Manager was Jim Steicke , the other facillities I worked with where the Organisation that now is called OPEN HOUSE, Doncaster NHS Drug Treatment services, and the Town centre CCTV unit (There’s a big clue for you there)
Most of The people I observed were long term Heroin addicts, who funded their habit by petty Crime, mainly Shoplifting and Breaking into Cars. When the shops shut they would make their way into Hexthorpe, Hyde Park and Wheatley were they would target the vulnerable 2 up 2 down Terraced housing, most of them had been kicked out by their parents who had tolerated their thieving until the day they stole the TV set, that was usually the straw that broke the Camels back. I managed to get 3 or 4 back into society but most were not interested and were happy with their lifestyle. No ex Services, when I worked in the Prisons the ex Service men. Were really heavily outreached and offered tons of support.that was a different team heavily funded by the Government ex service men’s schemes.
thanks for that sprot, don't you think people in this position should be treated as medical patients rather than criminals? keep them alive until they get off their particular habit?
My own thoughts are that we should de criminalise drugs and given them the stuff on prescription, the Drug barons won't be happy but heigh ho!
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I'd like more info from our cub reporter, who were they and what were their circumstances, did they have medical conditions, were they victims of traumatic incidents etc, how many of them were there? did they go around in a group as described? did you follow them all day sprot or is the information second hand?
The Charity M25 ran the Union street site the Manager was Jim Steicke , the other facillities I worked with where the Organisation that now is called OPEN HOUSE, Doncaster NHS Drug Treatment services, and the Town centre CCTV unit (There’s a big clue for you there)
Most of The people I observed were long term Heroin addicts, who funded their habit by petty Crime, mainly Shoplifting and Breaking into Cars. When the shops shut they would make their way into Hexthorpe, Hyde Park and Wheatley were they would target the vulnerable 2 up 2 down Terraced housing, most of them had been kicked out by their parents who had tolerated their thieving until the day they stole the TV set, that was usually the straw that broke the Camels back. I managed to get 3 or 4 back into society but most were not interested and were happy with their lifestyle. No ex Services, when I worked in the Prisons the ex Service men. Were really heavily outreached and offered tons of support.that was a different team heavily funded by the Government ex service men’s schemes.
thanks for that sprot, don't you think people in this position should be treated as medical patients rather than criminals? keep them alive until they get off their particular habit?
I wonder what the people who were getting robbed thought.
Shoplifting is in epidemic proportions and costs businesses thousands of pounds and leads to job losses.
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My own thoughts are that we should de criminalise drugs and given them the stuff on prescription, the Drug barons won't be happy but heigh ho!
I'm sure the drug lords will love the British Government driving down the prices of the growers when they buy the stuff they'll smuggle into every other country.
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The Coop boss has has plenty to say about retail crime lately ..................... aye?
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She's gone. Well done Sunak, finally.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67376996
How weak is Sunak?
Braverman submitted text to No 10 to approve. Then ignored them and said what she wanted. And Sunak can't fire her.
Mmmm.
Well he has done.
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She's gone. Well done Sunak, finally.
Get the popcorn out, sit back and watch the Conservative Party eat itself now
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Cameron to replace her?
Speculation on the news this morning.
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The person most unsuited to a role since Danny Schofield.....
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Cameron to replace her?
Speculation on the news this morning.
Think Cameron might get Foreign Secretary job myself hound.
I could be wrong as I usually am. ;)
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the government is through the barrel and scraping the cellar floor
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Can't believe the woke left have cancelled her, just because she incited a gang of coked-up racists to attack the Cenotaph on Armistice Day.
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I wonder when we’ll get her letter slagging Richy off?
That’ll get the Tories fighting in their Gentleman’s (sic) clubs.
But do you get to write a bitter resignation letter if you’ve been sacked?
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Cameron to replace her?
Speculation on the news this morning.
Think Cameron might get Foreign Secretary job myself hound.
I could be wrong as I usually am. ;)
Can he though, he's neither an MP or lord? I always thought he should have stayed as an MP but he didn't.
Fwiw if he can do it he should he'd be good at it.
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the government is through the barrel and scraping the cellar floor
What’s going on in Australia Sydney ?
Please tell us. What do you think about the Australian government. I am sure everyone would be really interested.
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the government is through the barrel and scraping the cellar floor
What’s going on in Australia Sydney ?
Please tell us. What do you think about the Australian government. I am sure everyone would be really interested.
couldn't be further from the truth CR
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Cameron to replace her?
Speculation on the news this morning.
Think Cameron might get Foreign Secretary job myself hound.
I could be wrong as I usually am. ;)
Can he though, he's neither an MP or lord? I always thought he should have stayed as an MP but he didn't.
Fwiw if he can do it he should he'd be good at it.
It’s ok bfyp.
Everyone is aware that the government can change the rules.
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Cameron to replace her?
Speculation on the news this morning.
Think Cameron might get Foreign Secretary job myself hound.
I could be wrong as I usually am. ;)
I must admit that I cheat a bit when prophesizing the future. I wait until BST offers his prognosis and then go the other way.
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Cameron should be trade minister, there's a few deals yet to be done
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Lord Cameron it is, then. Lock up your pigs!
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Lord Cameron it is, then. Lock up your pigs!
Forgot about the pig story!
:lol:
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
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https://www.politico.eu/article/the-smiling-new-face-of-chinas-belt-and-road-program-david-cameron/
Good to have a supporter of the Chinese Government as Foreign Secretary. I bet he's got a state of the art Huawei phone in his grubby paw right now.
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And of course during leveson
''There was laughter in court 73 of the royal courts of justice when Jay asked Brooks how Cameron would sign off his texts, prompting Lord Justice Leveson to make a rare intervention to ask why this was necessary.
Jay said he was happy to be overruled and withdraw the question. After a pause, Brooks turned to Leveson to ask what his decision was, and the judge instructed her to "answer the question".
"He would sign them off 'DC' in the main. Occasionally, he would sign them off 'LOL', lots of love, until I told him it meant laugh out loud and then he didn't sign them like that any more," Brooks replied''
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/may/11/rebekah-brooks-david-cameron-texts-lol
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
None of the Cabinet are ever elected to their post..!
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
None of the Cabinet are ever elected to their post..!
I think you know what I mean!
We also have a Foreign Sec that can not be held to account in the House of Commons
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Simon Jenkins writes:
''When the solution to your problem is David Cameron, you know you’re in deep trouble''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/13/david-cameron-cabinet-suella-braverman-rishi-sunak
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Ironic that David Cameron was one of only 3 PM's in the last 25 years not to have a minister from outside of parliament. Theresa May and John Major being the others. Everyone else had (including Labour for the entire time they were in power).
It's an interesting area and we're actually out of step with other countries where it happens frequently (EG the USA). Perhaps we'd be better off if the government could appoint from outside of elected officials but with parliament having to sign them off or something like that?
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I have to admit it's a fairly drastic way for Rishi to say that not one of his MPs are fit to be Foreign Secretary!
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Rishi Sunak is going to be horrified when he realises he's just taken on someone responsible for part of the failed last 30 years.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12590587/amp/Rishi-Sunak-vow-end-30-years-failed-status-quo-politics-Tory-conference-speech-scraps-northern-leg-HS2.html&ved=2ahUKEwiirJKV9cCCAxUVh1wKHc5iDqoQyM8BKAB6BAgNEAI&usg=AOvVaw3iD9oIFXFdnicr2mUwFqd_
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Ironic that David Cameron was one of only 3 PM's in the last 25 years not to have a minister from outside of parliament. Theresa May and John Major being the others. Everyone else had (including Labour for the entire time they were in power).
It's an interesting area and we're actually out of step with other countries where it happens frequently (EG the USA). Perhaps we'd be better off if the government could appoint from outside of elected officials but with parliament having to sign them off or something like that?
But shouldn't that occur only in an area of special need (although frost struggled in NI) rather than because of a lack of talent in parliament?
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Look out for Lord Boris as Minister For Women!
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Ironic that David Cameron was one of only 3 PM's in the last 25 years not to have a minister from outside of parliament. Theresa May and John Major being the others. Everyone else had (including Labour for the entire time they were in power).
It's an interesting area and we're actually out of step with other countries where it happens frequently (EG the USA). Perhaps we'd be better off if the government could appoint from outside of elected officials but with parliament having to sign them off or something like that?
I didn't think you can have a non-Parliamentary Minister of State?
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Ironic that David Cameron was one of only 3 PM's in the last 25 years not to have a minister from outside of parliament. Theresa May and John Major being the others. Everyone else had (including Labour for the entire time they were in power).
It's an interesting area and we're actually out of step with other countries where it happens frequently (EG the USA). Perhaps we'd be better off if the government could appoint from outside of elected officials but with parliament having to sign them off or something like that?
I didn't think you can have a non-Parliamentary Minister of State?
The point is why do they have to be elected to hold positions, is it the best way? Possibly not.
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I've absolutely no problem with having non-MPs as senior ministers. You want the very best people for the job.
The problem is that, in this case, the very best person they could find is the PM who made the two worst political decisions (Austerity and the Brexit referendum) in my lifetime. What that does is to show how absolutely shocking the other potential choices are in this Tory party.
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I should add, it's not just that they were awful decisions for the effect they had on the future of the country. They were decisions that he didn't have to make in a crisis. They were choices to give him what he thought was party political advantage.
He went for Austerity despite all the economic theory and evidence purely because it gave him a stick to beat Brown with.
He went for the Brexit referendum to address the threat of Farage undermining him from the Far Right in the 2015 election.
He was a shocking PM who did untold damage to this country. The fact that he's all that Sunak can now turn to shows that the Tories need to be out of power for a generation.
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The political equivalent of giving it Big Sam til the end of the season. But without the hope that he'll actually keep you up.
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Ironic that David Cameron was one of only 3 PM's in the last 25 years not to have a minister from outside of parliament. Theresa May and John Major being the others. Everyone else had (including Labour for the entire time they were in power).
It's an interesting area and we're actually out of step with other countries where it happens frequently (EG the USA). Perhaps we'd be better off if the government could appoint from outside of elected officials but with parliament having to sign them off or something like that?
I didn't think you can have a non-Parliamentary Minister of State?
The point is why do they have to be elected to hold positions, is it the best way? Possibly not.
It's better than a situation such as Trump politicising his Executive appointments against his enemies as he says he will if he gets elected again. It's what Cummings was trying to do here.
The point of Parliamentary appointments is that they are then accountable to Parliament.
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
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In other good news, Therese Coffey has finally gone too.
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As he is no longer an actual MP is he allowed to attend The Commons?
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As he is no longer an actual MP is he allowed to attend The Commons?
No, although the Commons can vote to compel him to stand at the edge of the House and be questioned.
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I've absolutely no problem with having non-MPs as senior ministers. You want the very best people for the job.
The problem is that, in this case, the very best person they could find is the PM who made the two worst political decisions (Austerity and the Brexit referendum) in my lifetime. What that does is to show how absolutely shocking the other potential choices are in this Tory party.
And the Labour Party are full of wise Men and Women who are going to make our country great again.
Yes I can’t wait.
Being serious it’s easy when you’re in opposition isn’t it? Talk is cheap. How Starmer is going to do what he wants to do over 2 full terms in office is quite frankly pie in the sky.
Both The Conservatives and the Labour Party have wasted Billions of tax payers money over the last 26 and a half years. Billions.
To be honest the Raving Loony party could have done a better job.
I have never been so disillusioned with politicians as I am at present.
We are desperately crying out for a really strong leader who is neither on the right or left with his views.
There just doesn’t seem to be anyone out there coming up through the ranks who remotely fits that bill.
It’s extremely worrying.
Bringing back Cameron looks like an act of desperation to me. The man that thought the British people should have a referendum on the EU.
Did he honestly think 95% of the adult population knew what would be best for this country.
I thought that’s what we elect politicians to do.
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Who would you "elect" as foreign secretary, Diane Abbott?
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Who would you "elect" as foreign secretary, Diane Abbott?
God forbid.
Angela Raynor as Home Secretary or any ministerial post for that matter. Give me strength.
Is that what we have got to look forward to in possibly 6 to 12 months time.
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
No.
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A piece of artwork for Billy or Sydney to frame and hang up.
https://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1724037826767884358?s=46
;)
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
No.
Then isn't it fair to point out his failings?
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A piece of artwork for Billy or Sydney to frame and hang up.
https://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1724037826767884358?s=46
;)
Darren Grimes.
Dear God up above.
The internet is so wonderful in so many ways. But it's Yin and Yang.
For every access you get to truly brilliant minds and their insights, you also get exposed to bottom feeding gobshites like Grimes, who would never have been heard of in pre-intenet days.
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Amazingly lots of the 52pc who Voted Leave said they wanted to free themselves of the Rules and Laws dictated to us by people in the EU who were unelected AND they could not get rid of by voting them out
Cameron is now one of that exact category. Elected by nobody and now free to make Rules and Laws in this Country and nobody but nobody can vote him out
Irony of ironies
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
No.
Then isn't it fair to point out his failings?
His failings as PM many years ago has little or nothing to do with his ability to do this job, right now.
You do not want a competent Tory Home Secretary, whoever it may be.
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Who would you "elect" as foreign secretary, Diane Abbott?
God forbid.
Angela Raynor as Home Secretary or any ministerial post for that matter. Give me strength.
Is that what we have got to look forward to in possibly 6 to 12 months time.
Angela Raynor will make an excellent senior minister
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
No.
Then isn't it fair to point out his failings?
His failings as PM many years ago has little or nothing to do with his ability to do this job, right now.
You do not want a competent Tory Home Secretary, whoever it may be.
Wait for the question
Do you believe Brexit is a success?
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I have to admit it's a fairly drastic way for Rishi to say that not one of his MPs are fit to be Foreign Secretary!
Yes but there's none left , 327 have already had the job !!
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We now have an unelected PM and a Unelected Foreign Sec, dictatorship anyone?
Who would you "elect" as foreign secretary, Diane Abbott?
God forbid.
Angela Raynor as Home Secretary or any ministerial post for that matter. Give me strength.
Is that what we have got to look forward to in possibly 6 to 12 months time.
Angela Raynor will make an excellent senior minister
We will possibly see in 6/12 months
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Camps, haven’t you heard, it is cut and dried, stitched on.
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
No.
Then isn't it fair to point out his failings?
His failings as PM many years ago has little or nothing to do with his ability to do this job, right now.
You do not want a competent Tory Home Secretary, whoever it may be.
Do you really need to ask whether I want us to be governed by competent people?
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Jesus H Corbett.
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724115325283700826
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I'm sure ( no I'm not sure ) that Cameron can't speak in House of Commons as the HOL and HOC are " designed" ( who designed that idea ) to be kept completely apart
Apparently Hoyle is looking at the intricacies of the " problem "
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The despised Tory is dead. Long live the despised Tory.
Do YOU think he was a good PM?
No.
Then isn't it fair to point out his failings?
His failings as PM many years ago has little or nothing to do with his ability to do this job, right now.
You do not want a competent Tory Home Secretary, whoever it may be.
Do you really need to ask whether I want us to be governed by competent people?
I didn’t say people, as you well know.
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Phew.
Alright. Do you actually think I want Tory politicians to be utterly incompetent when they are running the country?
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I'm sure ( no I'm not sure ) that Cameron can't speak in House of Commons as the HOL and HOC are " designed" ( who designed that idea ) to be kept completely apart
Apparently Hoyle is looking at the intricacies of the " problem "
Surely the rules would be the same as when Lord Carrington was Foreign Secretary?
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Jesus H Corbett.
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724115325283700826
Remember when "woke" just meant "aware of systemic racism"?
What is her job going to be? Putting stuff in boxes marked "woke" and "not woke"? This is just not serious behaviour.
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Phew.
Alright. Do you actually think I want Tory politicians to be utterly incompetent when they are running the country?
Billy, when you start with the condescending comedy ‘phews’, I’ve no interest in carrying on the debate with you.
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Belton.
I did that because it's frustrating when someone reads into a post an intent that was never there.
But I can see where this is in danger of going, so I'll drop out too.
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''Cameron’s appointment comes two years after BBC Panorama revealed documents suggesting Mr Cameron had made about made about £8 million promoting Greensill Capital, whose boss Lex Greensill had previously been given his own office in Downing Street. The company, which collapsed in 2021, left investors missing billions of dollars, with criminal inquiries ongoing to this day in Germany and Switzerland''
https://bylinetimes.com/2023/11/13/david-cameron-rishi-sunak-braverman-reshuffle-braverman-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-political-integrity/
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(My) greatest regret is that we lost the Brexit referendum, that I didn't prevail.
David Cameron in his autobiography, 2019
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/29/764199387/david-cameron-calls-the-brexit-referendum-his-greatest-regret
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She was happyto serve under a Pm without a mandate and uses that to attack him today
Sit back folks, and watch the Tory Party implode
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It won't because sunak is on the right side of the argument. Her statements pathetic.
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It won't because sunak is on the right side of the argument. Her statements pathetic.
If she has a written document that he signed and then reneged on, as she appears to hint at in that, then Sunak will be the next Tory ex-PM. No way will the Dail Heil let him get away with that.
Speculation that is why Cameron has been brought in. Next PM if Sunak goes.
Popcorn sales going through the roof I hear.
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Wow!
The Tory Civil War is going to be Denaby Rules.
They can wave goodbye to power for a generation if this is how they are going to act.
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Wow!
The Tory Civil War is going to be Denaby Rules.
They can wave goodbye to power for a generation if this is how they are going to act.
The only way I can see them recovering in the short-to-mid term is for them to go on bended knee and beg Ruth Davidson to give up her peerage and become leader. Other than her I can't see anyone that stands out that might be able to turn it around for them.
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Why, is Ruth Davidson a good enough Tory to compete against the magnificent Keir Starmer?
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Why, is Ruth Davidson a good enough Tory to compete against the magnificent Keir Starmer?
No one is good enough.
He has a 20 point lead.
Foregone conclusion mate.
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Hound, I'll have you know that Starmer is about as genuine as ............................... his supporters!
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It’s all kicked off!
https://x.com/mahyartousi/status/1724773875253178761?s=61
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It’s all kicked off!
https://x.com/mahyartousi/status/1724773875253178761?s=61
Hmm. My personal opinion is that they are both absolute kitsons. However is there really any need to post racist stereotypes?
Or are you playing to the crowd?
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It’s all kicked off!
https://x.com/mahyartousi/status/1724773875253178761?s=61
Hmm. My personal opinion is that they are both absolute kitsons. However is there really any need to post racist stereotypes?
Or are you playing to the crowd?
It's an interesting point.
The video was posted by someone who I believe has Indian ancestry.
Is it ok to laugh at that then, if someone from that cultural background posts something poking fun at a stereotype of that culture?
Was it wrong to laugh at Goodness Gracious Me? (The comedy series, not Peter Sellers' blatantly racist song.)