Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: bobjimwilly on September 20, 2025, 07:31:01 am
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I think most of us knew in our heart of hearts that the Sequentia capital deal was rotten, but finally the deal is fully exposed. Proud to have been on the VSC board at the time and feel a little bit vindicated now in the decisions we took at the time.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/louis-tomlinson-duped-criminal-gang-35934534
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/louis-tomlinson-fooled-criminal-gang-35934625
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The amount of shit thrown at those of us that could see right through the deal was unreal, most of the perpetrators of that shit are no longer regular supporters!
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Paywalls on those two links for me.
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Both work fine for me Hound - I ain't subscribed either. Wierd.
BobG
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Very odd mate.
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It just didn’t seem right at the time and the vitriol aimed at the VSC was unreal
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Important stuff. But also fully important to not get back in to this too much and stay united. The division this caused amongst fans is something I'd never like to see again.
Cudos to those who remained on the vsc board, it certainly put me off doing anything like that again for a long time.
The whole thing was a sad story for all rovers fans and it could have been much worse if that fight was not won.
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Those articles only skim the surface. Ryan's relationship with Phelan goes way back as we know to the Richardson era when Phelan was already a disqualified director and had already been involved in dodgy deals to obtain property.
It still makes my stomach churn thinking back to those days when fans were deliberately misled and deliberately divided by people who knew what was going on.
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It just didn’t seem right at the time and the vitriol aimed at the VSC was unreal
Remember a supporters group was set up and funded by outside influences to try and finish the VSC, those supporters should be humble enough to aplologise, I doubt they will
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Are any of them still around?
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They dont go to the footy any more.
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Glad with obvious hindsight that we didn't go down that route god knows we're we would be now probably similar to Bury
From my memory at the time both vsc and Terry Bramall got lots of stick I'm hopeful when the time comes Terry and his Family will do due diligence and pass us to credible custodians
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The Mirror article states:
"Ryan transferred his 30% shareholding to Sequentia and resigned as Doncaster chairman."
I was always under the impression that he had transferred his shares to TB...?
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Sadly as we see all the time with transfer rumours, we can’t always believe what we read on here either.
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Sadly as we see all the time with transfer rumours, we can’t always believe what we read on here either.
Some of the abuse was disgraceful they need calling ouy
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Sadly as we see all the time with transfer rumours, we can’t always believe what we read on here either.
Respectfully disagree mate. People such as SM were telling us that this was bad for the club and the vsc were the fans reps on the board.
They were holding people to account but a lot of folk held JR as the Messiah and blindly followed him.
Thank God for the vsc and those who were very hands on at the time.
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JR was the Messiah, the fact that he and others were temporarily duped by some con men does not mean he is guilty of anything other than trying to get funding into the club.
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He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Sadly as we see all the time with transfer rumours, we can’t always believe what we read on here either.
Respectfully disagree mate. People such as SM were telling us that this was bad for the club and the vsc were the fans reps on the board.
They were holding people to account but a lot of folk held JR as the Messiah and blindly followed him.
Thank God for the vsc and those who were very hands on at the time.
And this is why the VSC should remain strong, and I urge more people to join
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Sadly as we see all the time with transfer rumours, we can’t always believe what we read on here either.
Respectfully disagree mate. People such as SM were telling us that this was bad for the club and the vsc were the fans reps on the board.
They were holding people to account but a lot of folk held JR as the Messiah and blindly followed him.
Thank God for the vsc and those who were very hands on at the time.
And this is why the VSC should remain strong, and I urge more people to join
The VSC has been a proactive, protective force for the Rovers against predators twice now. It’s Value is proven.
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He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
He was a desperate man. Desperate men make bad decisions.
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The VSC did the job it was set up to do and I’m proud of being a part of it then and now but SM and Rob were subject to far more abuse than I and deserve far more respect for the parts they played. I would urge people to think about joining if they haven’t already done so. I know things are good at present but it can turn ugly very quickly and we need the safeguard of the trust.
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He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
He was a desperate man. Desperate men make bad decisions.
One way of putting it
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Important stuff. But also fully important to not get back in to this too much and stay united. The division this caused amongst fans is something I'd never like to see again.
Cudos to those who remained on the vsc board, it certainly put me off doing anything like that again for a long time.
The whole thing was a sad story for all rovers fans and it could have been much worse if that fight was not won.
The divisiveness issue could be dealt with very easily if a handful of people who were the strongest supporters of the Sequential "deal" and threw the most abuse at people who saw through it, simply did the grown up thing. Admitted how badly wrong they called it and apologised to those they abused.
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I've been looking back a little.
Wesco 1986, casperjebba and wesisback seem to be worth highlighting. I was attempting to also discover the date of their first and last posts on here but I seem to be suffering from a system refusal to load random pages despite repeated attempts. However, I do not recall seeing posts from any of these three on here for years. It does make you wonder exactly who they were/are and their motivation at the time....
BobG
Later: savvy, who disappeared in 2019, was extremely prolix in his disapproval of our current Chairman. By implication at least he spent a lot of time and energy supporting what was then felt to be, and is now known to be, the indefensible.
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It’s certainly interesting looking back at threads from 10-12 years ago
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Billy ..I agree but I know two of them who were hoodwinked by …and fell for it hook line a sinker .Misplaced loyalties .. No .. but hoodwinked and naive they were as was their Influencer .
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He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
He was a desperate man. Desperate men make bad decisions.
I think the word you’re searching for is ‘selfish’.
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People who care about the club do their due diligence especially when they know them to be dodgy previously. JR only cared about his own inflated ego.
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In those recent podcasts when he came out in support of the club, TB & Gavin, encouraging people to buy season tickets, he said he made mistakes, but that doesn't go far enough to apologies to the people he trod on and those he misled.
Whether Phelans conviction changes that, I don't know. Has he covered any of it in his book? Maybe he's fearful of spilling the beans?
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So currently diving into the murky history, having read the mortuary tribunal regrading O’Brien and dinard saga, turns out Kevin phelan and Aidan phelan are of no relation…oddi thought….the complete history book by Tony bluff is a great readz
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I love the mortuary bit Pinter!! A cracking bit of spellcheckitis!
BobG
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VSC Board Statement
The VSC Board welcomes the news of the verdict of fraud case heard at Leeds Crown Court following the reporting restriction in place until 19th September 2025.
This case involved key figures in the failed takeover of Doncaster Rovers by Sequentia Capital in 2013.
We would further like to pass on our thanks to Judge Belcher, Tim Hannam KC and his team for the prosecution, and the jury members for reaching their decision.
Those involved in the failed takeover and now awaiting sentencing for fraud on January 8th 2026 are Kevin Phelan, Daniel Giles and Adrian Bashforth.
The takeover attempt did enormous damage to the Doncaster Rovers fanbase, which has taken many years to heal. Public support for the Sequentia Capital takeover was expressed by many supporters despite no real information available on who was behind the bid or where the proposed funding was coming from. Support was also given from representatives of Doncaster Rovers Supporters Club, and former club Chairman John Ryan, fronting these bids, even enlisted Louis Tomlinson to promote and help raise funds. Tomlinson later said in a statement that he was “misled”.
The VSC did what a Supporter’s Trust was meant to do. We sought to scrutinise the potential new owners, particularly with regard for the good governance of the Football Club and ensuring that its future would be secure for the benefit of future generations of supporters. The fact that we couldn’t complete this due to a lack of information and those behind Sequentia Capital being unwilling to provide it only raised further concern.
In the face of mounting pressure and speculation the VSC stood firm and worked diligently behind the scenes with various individuals and groups to help ensure that these takeovers did not succeed without full transparency. Some of these people worked at the FA, the EFL, Supporters Direct, and the FSF. We also received help from many Rovers fans and individuals who kept their identity secret and yet provided valuable information, and Conor Ryan, an investigative journalist then working at The Irish Examiner newspaper. We would like to place on record our thanks to all those who supported the VSC.
Now, in the light of this verdict and at a time with Doncaster Rovers in settled and stable ownership whilst other clubs are facing an uncertain future due to ownership issues, with the recent well publicised concerns for Morecambe and Sheffield Wednesday supporters as examples, the actions of the VSC regarding the takeover attempt can finally be viewed as correct and justified by all.
It has taken a long time to get to this point, but the truth about the people behind the ownership bid is now a matter of public record.
In the months to come we will detail more information on how the takeover bids came about and the dangers they held for the club and it’s proud supporters. We will also reach out to the club and individuals involved at the time and ask the questions that need to be asked, and ensure that we are prepared for the future.
Football clubs are the cornerstone of communities, and by ensuring good ownership and holding it to account we can help ensure Doncaster Rovers supporters have a well-run club to enjoy for many more years to come.
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Excellent statement.
And thank you to everyone involved in making sure these crooks didn't get their hands on OUR club.
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Great statement
Some of the more sinister events ought to be revealed, there’s loads that people don’t know
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Agree great statement.
Well done and a big THANK YOU to all involved in the work to uncover what was really going on back then. We owe you a debt.
It was easy at the time to get carried away by the hype. I admit I was one who did to some extent. But it was obviously just window dressing for people with dodgy motives and others with blind ambition.
I’d like to understand more and I look forward to hearing more. It’s important as preventing we don’t end up in a similar position ever again.
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Great statement
Some of the more sinister events ought to be revealed, there’s loads that people don’t know
Agree. I don't think we'll get full closure until such time as we know more about what motivated those key individuals to tread where they shouldn't.
As Rob says in the statement though, they key thing is learning and helping the next generation to be prepared and be vigilant.
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Great statement
Some of the more sinister events ought to be revealed, there’s loads that people don’t know
That’s very true Filo, but we’ve waited years for the Police investigation to conclude so that we can give out the details that we’ve held onto. This should have been heard in court last year but kept getting moved until it was heard this year. It was a difficult case and involved about 14 individuals and many millions yet just 3 individuals have been named.
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I'd like to add my sincere thanks to Martin, Rob and the others at the VSC for standing firm in the face of the vitriol and abuse they suffered at the time of this whole shabby episode.
As supporters of DRFC we owe them a huge debt of gratitude for refusing to give way and for protecting our club against what would have been a disaster.
Not for the first time, I say "thank heavens for the VSC".
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I'd like to add my sincere thanks to Martin, Rob and the others at the VSC for standing firm in the face of the vitriol and abuse they suffered at the time of this whole shabby episode.
As supporters of DRFC we owe them a huge debt of gratitude for refusing to give way and for protecting our club against what would have been a disaster.
Not for the first time, I say "thank heavens for the VSC".
Perfectly said. I echo every word of this.
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At last a bit of vindication for what we as a VSC Board at that time went through. Heaven knows how Martin and Rob have kept going through the years in their VSC roles.
Simply knowing the ins and outs from then turned me away from DRFC and footy in general.
It's not a case of we tild you so, but the JR Messiah Bli keys had to come off.
He knew full well what he was involved with right from the off - not a desperate man doing desperate things - far from it. He knew the potential ramifications and that was clear at a VSC meeting before the 2013 season- he stood there in the meeting and almost screamed, 'let me tell you why Doncaster Rovers need Sequentia Capital' then when very quiet when asked some pertinent questions regarding Sequentia. he was fully immersed, involved and will be implicated i am sure when all the other stuff comes out fully.
Gav, Terry, Dick (Rip), Liam Scully, Andrew etc etc etc have all spent various parts of the last 10+ years clearing the shit up. Notwithstanding Martin and R9b.
I am sure that when Martin and co are okayed to give the full story over the next few weeks/months - everyone else will at last see what we were unfortunately privvy to.
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Respectfully disagree mate. People such as SM were telling us that this was bad for the club and the vsc were the fans reps on the board.
They were holding people to account but a lot of folk held JR as the Messiah and blindly followed him.
Thank God for the vsc and those who were very hands on at the time.
I think some additional context is needed here...
Only two and a bit years prior the VSC (not the same people, but the same organisation) had been championing Willie McKay's experiment and dismissing and belittling many of those who dared to question it or call it our rather than get blithely behind it, less they upset John Ryan.
With that in mind, you can understand why some fans, especially without the benefit of the full facts at their disposal, may have been wary of going along with the VSC on this issue.
I'm not excusing any abuse that VSC committee members may have received by any means (that's undeniably not right), but I think, as Fal says, it's unfair (and unhelpful) to start calling out fans who might have had a different view to the VSC at the time.
I'm not in that group – the fanzine was also calling out the Louis Tomlinson centred deal and backed the VSC for doing so, and I duly also copped my own share of abuse for doing so – but in hindsight I can understand why many found it hard to fully get behind the VSC's efforts at the time.
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Viva
I'm sure you remember it WASN'T just that some folk ",found it hard to fully get behind the VSC's efforts at the time".
The level of abuse and vitriol on here towards the VSC at the time and since was worse than anything I've ever seen. That spread out into other social media, and onto the terraces where "f**k the VSC" tags and chants became commonplace.
In a sensible, grown up world, there's some serious apologising to be done by a few people over that. I won't hold my breath.
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Whilst yes the truth has come out please don’t jump at those who were calling you guys out back then. They weren’t privy to the facts and only had what was being shared in the public domain to go on.
Respectfully disagree mate. People such as SM were telling us that this was bad for the club and the vsc were the fans reps on the board.
They were holding people to account but a lot of folk held JR as the Messiah and blindly followed him.
Thank God for the vsc and those who were very hands on at the time.
I think some additional context is needed here...
Only two and a bit years prior the VSC (not the same people, but the same organisation) had been championing Willie McKay's experiment and dismissing and belittling many of those who dared to question it or call it our rather than get blithely behind it, less they upset John Ryan.
With that in mind, you can understand why some fans, especially without the benefit of the full facts at their disposal, may have been wary of going along with the VSC on this issue.
I'm not excusing any abuse that VSC committee members may have received by any means (that's undeniably not right), but I think, as Fal says, it's unfair (and unhelpful) to start calling out fans who might have had a different view to the VSC at the time.
I'm not in that group – the fanzine was also calling out the Louis Tomlinson centred deal and backed the VSC for doing so, and I duly also copped my own share of abuse for doing so – but in hindsight I can understand why many found it hard to fully get behind the VSC's efforts at the time.
I remember writing that piece with you, Glenn. Grateful of your support at a time when it felt like there wasn't much around.
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Viva
I'm sure you remember it WASN'T just that some folk ",found it hard to fully get behind the VSC's efforts at the time".
The level of abuse and vitriol on here towards the VSC at the time and since was worse than anything I've ever seen. That spread out into other social media, and onto the terraces where "f**k the VSC" tags and chants became commonplace.
In a sensible, grown up world, there's some serious apologising to be done by a few people over that. I won't hold my breath.
We got that some fans were blinded by JR's confidence in the deal. We got that some fans wanted more success.
We also had to stand by what the Trust is there for and why Andy Liney et al established it. We wanted it to be true and transparent as much as anyone. The fact it wasn't and those involved couldn't or wouldn't answer our questions just meant we had to keep challenging.
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Viva.
I think you’re being unfair here, although I agree with some elements of what you say.
Let’s not forget it was the VSC that raised numerous funds which they handed over to JR in his early years getting DRFC off the ground. It was also the VSC, in the shape of Andy Liney, who negotiated the move to the Keepmoat. JR might have been the public figure yet it was Andy who attended the meetings and sat with the planners at DMBC.
It was that short period after Andy left that the VSC lost its way. Andy handed the reigns to someone who quite clearly had no grasp of what a supporters trust was about. I called it the John Ryan fan club as all the work and effort went into supporting him. I got a call from Supporters Direct asking if I could have a closer look at what was going on, and I’ve been involved ever since! It was during that period that the tie up with Willie McKay was instigated and it took a while to get the VSC back on track.
So yes I agree that at that time they were doing the wrong thing but prior, and subsequent to that period, theyhave acted as you would expect.
I would also suggest that people wait until we’ve published the details of that period before casting judgement. There’s an awful lot to be told!!
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Great statement
Some of the more sinister events ought to be revealed, there’s loads that people don’t know
There are still things that we can’t say unfortunately
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So currently diving into the murky history, having read the mortuary tribunal regrading O’Brien and dinard saga, turns out Kevin phelan and Aidan phelan are of no relation…oddi thought….the complete history book by Tony bluff is a great readz
Have you read the court transcripts? I did at the time spending lots of hours going through them. I don't wish to do that again.
Also looks like this latest court verdict has rekindled the whole affair across the pond.
https://www.facebook.com/share/19niwSkiRp/
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It will be good to read it all, hopefully it can be allowed, but given what is being said so far it may also be tinged with sadness and no doubt anger.
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Viva.
I think you’re being unfair here, although I agree with some elements of what you say.
Let’s not forget it was the VSC that raised numerous funds which they handed over to JR in his early years getting DRFC off the ground. It was also the VSC, in the shape of Andy Liney, who negotiated the move to the Keepmoat. JR might have been the public figure yet it was Andy who attended the meetings and sat with the planners at DMBC.
It was that short period after Andy left that the VSC lost its way. Andy handed the reigns to someone who quite clearly had no grasp of what a supporters trust was about. I called it the John Ryan fan club as all the work and effort went into supporting him. I got a call from Supporters Direct asking if I could have a closer look at what was going on, and I’ve been involved ever since! It was during that period that the tie up with Willie McKay was instigated and it took a while to get the VSC back on track.
So yes I agree that at that time they were doing the wrong thing but prior, and subsequent to that period, theyhave acted as you would expect.
I would also suggest that people wait until we’ve published the details of that period before casting judgement. There’s an awful lot to be told!!
This is really good context for anyone that felt frustrated around the “experiment” period, thanks so much for sharing.
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
Still now were told there are things they still cant talk about.
JR is still the best chairman and owner we've ever had, unless some of the snide insinuations against him on here are backed with proof and evidence, then that will never change.
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are backed with proof and evidence.
Not entirely sure you've grasped how the legal process works there.
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
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Anyone who looked at the Sequentia Capital website and thought "this looks like a kosher company" really shouldn't be preparing their own food. That alone should have set off 140dB alarm bells.
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are backed with proof and evidence.
Not entirely sure you've grasped how the legal process works there.
It's settled now, let's hear it all.
Or is there some other reason for still keeping quiet?
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
Would you care to link the to the said posts.
Because as I remember it, nothing was explained, and still isn't.
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are backed with proof and evidence.
Not entirely sure you've grasped how the legal process works there.
It's settled now, let's hear it all.
Or is there some other reason for still keeping quiet?
So are you confident in predicting nothing further will be come out then?
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It's still an active court case until the sentencing hearing. Nothing more will be shared until after conclusion.
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Tony. Why must you always believe there is a conspiracy? Have you read the rules by which the VSC operates? Have you no understanding of the legal processes in this country? Have you no faith in anybody at all telling the truth? Have you no memory?
What you imply is downright shameful.
BobG
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On the subject of best ever Rovers chairman, there are possibilities beyond JR. Charlie Wilson and Terry Bramall immediately spring to mind for example. Who was chairman during the halcyon days of the mid 1950's too?
BobG
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
Would you care to link the to the said posts.
Because as I remember it, nothing was explained, and still isn't.
Why don't you go and look for them? Then consider whether you are as informed on this as you thought you were.
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Tony. Why must you always believe there is a conspiracy? Have you read the rules by which the VSC operates? Have you no understanding of the legal processes in this country? Have you no faith in anybody at all telling the truth? Have you no memory?
What you imply is downright shameful.
BobG
Oh get a grip of yourself
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
Would you care to link the to the said posts.
Because as I remember it, nothing was explained, and still isn't.
Why don't you go and look for them? Then consider whether you are as informed on this as you thought you were.
Im not wasting my time searching for something that doesn't exist
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Im not wasting my time searching for something that doesn't exist
Hahaha! Priceless.
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Can we put and to the bickering please and end to the subject
At the end of the day we have a club to support and a board (vsc and the club as whole ) that are doing great things for this great club of ours
ROVER TI I DIE !!!!!!!!
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
Would you care to link the to the said posts.
Because as I remember it, nothing was explained, and still isn't.
Why don't you go and look for them? Then consider whether you are as informed on this as you thought you were.
Im not wasting my time searching for something that doesn't exist
If only you could be that bothered about not wasting everybody else's time...
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
Still now were told there are things they still cant talk about.
JR is still the best chairman and owner we've ever had, unless some of the snide insinuations against him on here are backed with proof and evidence, then that will never change.
That's quite an irony given the VSC's stance was asking JR to provide some further Transparency and reassurance about the source of the funding.
Publicly available resources revealed what we knew about Sequentia and Kevin Phelan. Until JR could provide that evidence, we weren't in a position to change that stance.
You can make your own mind up now, especially with the benefit of hindsight, who had the most to hide?
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Sadly, I've reached the conclusion, DBR, that we're talking to pork. It's all clearly completely wasted effort.
BobG
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
Would you care to link the to the said posts.
Because as I remember it, nothing was explained, and still isn't.
Why don't you go and look for them? Then consider whether you are as informed on this as you thought you were.
Im not wasting my time searching for something that doesn't exist
You can find it in 30 seconds. You prefer to stay ignorant and certain of your own (wrong) opinions. On this as on so much else.
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
I’ll have to disagree there TS. At the time, there were posts on this very forum explaining why we didn’t trust the deal—hence the meetings where JR was invited to discuss it. We also held both public and private discussions with those who disagreed with us, explaining why we felt we had to oppose it. And we made a point of reminding everyone, almost daily, of the Trust’s responsibility to be so thorough.
Would you care to link the to the said posts.
Because as I remember it, nothing was explained, and still isn't.
Why don't you go and look for them? Then consider whether you are as informed on this as you thought you were.
Im not wasting my time searching for something that doesn't exist
You can find it in 30 seconds. You prefer to stay ignorant and certain of your own (wrong) opinions. On this as on so much else.
Ok, I've had a look, and theres nothing, not a thing.
You say it takes 30.seconds, then show me
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Well.
See that "Search" button.
Amazing thing.
You type in "sequentia" and "Vsc" into the search bar.
You put in the name of a prominent VSC person, like RobTheRover into the "By User" entry.
You choose "Show oldest topics first" because you want to know what was said at the time.
And you get this, stating clearly why the VSC were on guard against Sequentia.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=243092.msg391362#msg391362
Maybe a bit more practice at looking for info and a bit less shooting your mouth off in future?
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"He's got verbal diarrhoea" as my old Dad used to say.
Coupled with serious brain atrophy.
BobG
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And lo it did come to pass that the gobshite's gnashing of teeth did fall silent.
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So one post buried in the archives of the forum?
Hardly transparent communication.
Hence my point that you cant be surprised when people had a pop at the vsc at the time.
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So one post buried in the archives of the forum?
Hardly transparent communication.
Hence my point that you cant be surprised when people had a pop at the vsc at the time.
How many posts do you want?
You made a statement, that post contradicts what you claim, repeating what you claim over and over again doesn’t make it true
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So one post buried in the archives of the forum?
Hardly transparent communication.
Hence my point that you cant be surprised when people had a pop at the vsc at the time.
How many posts do you want?
You made a statement, that post contradicts what you claim, repeating what you claim over and over again doesn’t make it true
That's not my point though is it.
The vast majority of Rovers fans dont use this forum, so how would they know?
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So one post buried in the archives of the forum?
Hardly transparent communication.
Hence my point that you cant be surprised when people had a pop at the vsc at the time.
How many posts do you want?
You made a statement, that post contradicts what you claim, repeating what you claim over and over again doesn’t make it true
That's not my point though is it.
The vast majority of Rovers fans dont use this forum, so how would they know?
You were questioning the transparency of the VSC at the time, a statement was shown to you from the VSC at the time, a statement you claimed in a post further down the thread “doesn’t exist” make your mind up what you are trying to say!
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=295258.msg1420293#msg1420293
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So one post buried in the archives of the forum?
Hardly transparent communication.
Hence my point that you cant be surprised when people had a pop at the vsc at the time.
How many posts do you want?
You made a statement, that post contradicts what you claim, repeating what you claim over and over again doesn’t make it true
That's not my point though is it.
The vast majority of Rovers fans dont use this forum, so how would they know?
You were questioning the transparency of the VSC at the time, a statement was shown to you from the VSC at the time, a statement you claimed in a post further down the thread “doesn’t exist” make your mind up what you are trying to say!
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=295258.msg1420293#msg1420293
Again, its not the point i am making
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So one post buried in the archives of the forum?
Hardly transparent communication.
Hence my point that you cant be surprised when people had a pop at the vsc at the time.
How many posts do you want?
You made a statement, that post contradicts what you claim, repeating what you claim over and over again doesn’t make it true
That's not my point though is it.
The vast majority of Rovers fans dont use this forum, so how would they know?
Certainly at the time years back there were various other communication angles, the website, twitter as was, Facebook etc. it was a big topic, nobody remotely interested in rovers can pretend they knew nothing of it.
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I feel that if the vsc were more transparent at the time as to why they were fighting it, then some of the animosity could have been alleviated.
Still now were told there are things they still cant talk about.
JR is still the best chairman and owner we've ever had, unless some of the snide insinuations against him on here are backed with proof and evidence, then that will never change.
We were very, very, transparent at the time. We were overrun with individuals, and groups, who wanted to express their opinion on us as a group and as individuals. Certain posts that we put out on here attracted thousands upon thousands of views, some running into 25 - 30,000 territory. We were so popular people even chanted our name at home and away games!! JR even talked about us on the radio!!
Some of those threads we 'archived' though, because certain individuals kept returning to them many months and years later, which dragged up the old us and them animosity. Don't worry though, we still have them, along with copies of all the literature we received. And, seeing as this penny hasn't dropped yet despite repeating it over and over, we have been careful with what we've been saying over the years because we were well aware of the Police investigation into certain individuals. And we were well aware of the court case too and we couldn't prejudice that either.
And, repeating ourselves again, we will disclose the full story as we see it, the truth about the very dubious lawyer and the others in the scam, the threats to us as individuals, the two takeover bids that were just one, why they wanted our club, the physical and verbal abuse at matches, and we will release the documentation we hold that will puncture your balloon for you. But I make this offer to JR, if he wants to meet up and answer our questions then I'll be more than happy to meet with him.
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Theres no baloon to burst, merely making a valid point.
Perhaps I put the point across in a way that could have been better.
most of the people who criticised the vsc at the time jumped on the band wagon without knowing the facts, facts which they were unaware of or didn't have access to.
We clearly all should be grateful to the vsc, and I personally thank them for all they have done and continue to do.
But I also dont blame people at the time for getting frustrated, although the ones that abused physically and verbally were bang out of order.
Thanks again to the vsc, and I'll leave it at that.
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That's better.
If you're now retracting the accusation that the VSC were at least partly responsible for the animosity through not being transparent at the time, when they WERE as transparent as they could be, that's a decent conclusion.
The animosity as I recall it, came from a very common issue in those sorts of exchanges. Folk deciding they knew, just KNEW there was some ulterior motive going on, and doubling down on that despite the evidence in front of them.
I've always thought that says far more about those people than they ever realise.
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Theres no baloon to burst, merely making a valid point.
Perhaps I put the point across in a way that could have been better.
most of the people who criticised the vsc at the time jumped on the band wagon without knowing the facts, facts which they were unaware of or didn't have access to.
We clearly all should be grateful to the vsc, and I personally thank them for all they have done and continue to do.
But I also dont blame people at the time for getting frustrated, although the ones that abused physically and verbally were bang out of order.
Thanks again to the vsc, and I'll leave it at that.
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Theres no baloon to burst, merely making a valid point.
Perhaps I put the point across in a way that could have been better.
most of the people who criticised the vsc at the time jumped on the band wagon without knowing the facts, facts which they were unaware of or didn't have access to.
We clearly all should be grateful to the vsc, and I personally thank them for all they have done and continue to do.
But I also dont blame people at the time for getting frustrated, although the ones that abused physically and verbally were bang out of order.
Thanks again to the vsc, and I'll leave it at that.
Will you be joining the VSC, now you realise the value of it’s existence?
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That's better.
If you're now retracting the accusation that the VSC were at least partly responsible for the animosity through not being transparent at the time, when they WERE as transparent as they could be, that's a decent conclusion.
The animosity as I recall it, came from a very common issue in those sorts of exchanges. Folk deciding they knew, just KNEW there was some ulterior motive going on, and doubling down on that despite the evidence in front of them.
I've always thought that says far more about those people than they ever realise.
Nope, im still standing by my point.
But as usual, you go to the extreme and interpret things way off.
I just wanted to clarify my point in another way.
But then its got nothing to do with you.
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Theres no baloon to burst, merely making a valid point.
Perhaps I put the point across in a way that could have been better.
most of the people who criticised the vsc at the time jumped on the band wagon without knowing the facts, facts which they were unaware of or didn't have access to.
We clearly all should be grateful to the vsc, and I personally thank them for all they have done and continue to do.
But I also dont blame people at the time for getting frustrated, although the ones that abused physically and verbally were bang out of order.
Thanks again to the vsc, and I'll leave it at that.
Will you be joining the VSC, now you realise the value of it’s existence?
I've never disputed the value if its existence.
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Theres no baloon to burst, merely making a valid point.
Perhaps I put the point across in a way that could have been better.
most of the people who criticised the vsc at the time jumped on the band wagon without knowing the facts, facts which they were unaware of or didn't have access to.
We clearly all should be grateful to the vsc, and I personally thank them for all they have done and continue to do.
But I also dont blame people at the time for getting frustrated, although the ones that abused physically and verbally were bang out of order.
Thanks again to the vsc, and I'll leave it at that.
Will you be joining the VSC, now you realise the value of it’s existence?
I've never disputed the value if its existence.
So will you be joining?
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What a desperately unedifying spectacle this thread has turned into.
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And all caused by one jumped up little twerp who can't read, can't research and can't take no for an answer. A complete bell end.
BobG
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Theres no baloon to burst, merely making a valid point.
Perhaps I put the point across in a way that could have been better.
most of the people who criticised the vsc at the time jumped on the band wagon without knowing the facts, facts which they were unaware of or didn't have access to.
We clearly all should be grateful to the vsc, and I personally thank them for all they have done and continue to do.
But I also dont blame people at the time for getting frustrated, although the ones that abused physically and verbally were bang out of order.
Thanks again to the vsc, and I'll leave it at that.
Will you be joining the VSC, now you realise the value of it’s existence?
I've never disputed the value if its existence.
Surely if the supposed buyers give no information about their finances the VSC can only declare that until they receive this information they can’t endorse the bid. The Uncle Ken fiasco surely should have made all fans very wary of unsubstantiated bids. When the whole truth comes out about threats made to VSC members comes out you may change your stance.
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Sadly, and in hindsight of knowing as many of the ins and outs at the time as was possible, JR was always involved with (as politely as poss) 'dodgy' people.
I believe, had The Conference had the same level of 'right and proper ownership' protocols as the FL -JR wouldn't have been allowed to take the reigns in the first place.
It is going to be a sad day and a real eye opener for many people when Martin, Rob, TB, GB and other folk involved with the club at the time (like Liam Scully, as an example) can start publicising the information.
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I understand what is being intimated about JR but I think the people you quote will have too much class and respect for the good things John did to try to destroy his reputation .It is not a characteristic that is consistent with the club’s management and key Influencers .
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I've always wondered, Brian, just how much of what has happened in the past is actually history re-written. Truth, indubitably, is not absolute. But I dislike seeing it be re-written before my own eyes.
Bob
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Both me and my dad were shareholders and in one particular meeting couldn't understand why JR was blocking everything Ken Richardson tried to do, later we realized he was trying to stop the club going to a bunch of crooks so I firmly believe JR had the clubs interest at heart, he just didn't have the money to take us to the top end of championship
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Both me and my dad were shareholders and in one particular meeting couldn't understand why JR was blocking everything Ken Richardson tried to do, later we realized he was trying to stop the club going to a bunch of crooks so I firmly believe JR had the clubs interest at heart, he just didn't have the money to take us to the top end of championship
JR had JR interests at heart, nothing more and nothing less
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I came to think that JR's primary motive for his ownership of the club was to satisfy his narcissism but whether that is fair on JR or not what can't be disputed is that he put a great deal of his personal wealth into the club and we the supporters had a whale of a time whilst it lasted.
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Both me and my dad were shareholders and in one particular meeting couldn't understand why JR was blocking everything Ken Richardson tried to do, later we realized he was trying to stop the club going to a bunch of crooks so I firmly believe JR had the clubs interest at heart, he just didn't have the money to take us to the top end of championship
JR had JR interests at heart, nothing more and nothing less
Ok then, if he didn't have the clubs interests at heart and only his own. What were they? What were his motives?
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Both me and my dad were shareholders and in one particular meeting couldn't understand why JR was blocking everything Ken Richardson tried to do, later we realized he was trying to stop the club going to a bunch of crooks so I firmly believe JR had the clubs interest at heart, he just didn't have the money to take us to the top end of championship
JR had JR interests at heart, nothing more and nothing less
Ok then, if he didn't have the clubs interests at heart and only his own. What were they? What were his motives?
He wanted his moment in the sun, to play Football Manager with other people’s money.
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Both me and my dad were shareholders and in one particular meeting couldn't understand why JR was blocking everything Ken Richardson tried to do, later we realized he was trying to stop the club going to a bunch of crooks so I firmly believe JR had the clubs interest at heart, he just didn't have the money to take us to the top end of championship
JR had JR interests at heart, nothing more and nothing less
Ok then, if he didn't have the clubs interests at heart and only his own. What were they? What were his motives?
He wanted his moment in the sun, to play Football Manager with other people’s money.
And when he was the owner and saved the club ?
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Both me and my dad were shareholders and in one particular meeting couldn't understand why JR was blocking everything Ken Richardson tried to do, later we realized he was trying to stop the club going to a bunch of crooks so I firmly believe JR had the clubs interest at heart, he just didn't have the money to take us to the top end of championship
JR had JR interests at heart, nothing more and nothing less
Ok then, if he didn't have the clubs interests at heart and only his own. What were they? What were his motives?
He wanted his moment in the sun, to play Football Manager with other people’s money.
And when he was the owner and saved the club ?
You will have to wait for further answers as I’ve been asked to stay quiet until all the legal proceedings have finished.
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It's hardly unreasonable for a local boy done good like JR to treat himself to the ultimate plaything by acquiring his hometown club. He saw an opportunity to buy us when we were at rock bottom and he was wealthy enough at that time to take us on a hell of a ride. I'd expect ego/narcissism whatever you want to call it plays its part as I would imagine it does with any big ticket purchase! It would be daft to suggest that JR only did what he did out of purely charitable reasons. He's a businessman first and foremost. In his position I'd do the same!
What i understand however is that irrespective of his motives as to why he bought the club, when he walked away, he wrote off £4 million in loans that were due to him. I dont begrudge him his ego/narcissim if that's the case.
He's not a philanthropist and has never pretended to be.