Next

[IC1967]

Better work ethic, better educated are just two reasons that spring to mind! Prepared to work overtime at a moments notice, and more reliable would be others!

Thank you Savvy. It's as I said. The Polish workers are 'superior' to the 'inferior' Brits. It makes complete sense that Next would want to get workers from Poland before getting them from Britain.

I refer you all to my previous posts on the matter, especially on page 1. I was the only one saying it as it is. All you lefties were bothered about was having a go at me when what I said was total utter common sense. You lefties need to come into the real world.

So all you that say Next should prioritise Brits over Poles need to get an abject apology sorted. It will be accepted with good grace and I'll say no more about it.

[BobG]

It's well known, and has been for decades, that there are a lot of jobs that Brits won't willingly do.  That's why no matter how much smoke and flame there is about immigration, beneath the propaganda and hyperbole, it will continue. Business needs it. And its business that calls the shots. Of course, that also means that there is an institutionalised underclass without a job who will rely on the dole for most of their life. Why can't folk see that, given the culture and values we now have, this is an inevitable neccesity? Have you noticed? All the politics isn't about 'getting people back to work'. It's about demonising them as scroungers and cutting their cost. In other words, this country is in the process of abandoning a substantial minority of its population. Who was it said 'There is no such thing as society..."? Well, she's delivered it alright. Poor buggers.

BobG

[IC1967]

I don't call that an abject apology. Blaming Maggie for the situation is laughable.

The dependency culture has been created by Labour. Maggie wanted people to stand on their own two feet. The complete opposite of what Labour wanted. Gordon brown took it to a new level by giving nearly the whole population Tax Credits. This was a blatant misuse of borrowed money to buy votes.

Labour have made life too easy for people. They created a situation where you could get more by not working than working. That's the real problem.

[BobG]

I really cannot understand how you can be so blind to events in relatively recent history that have a direct influence upon how we are today. It's not very much of an exaggeration to say that that woman, along with Hayek and a few others, defined, laid out and created the entire culture, values and philosophy establsihed throught western society today. Have you ever wondered just what role that set of values has had, continues to have, in creating the circumstances we see today in the Middle East, parts of Africa and indeed the streets of London today?

BobG

[Savvy]

Better work ethic, better educated are just two reasons that spring to mind! Prepared to work overtime at a moments notice, and more reliable would be others!

Thank you Savvy. It's as I said. The Polish workers are 'superior' to the 'inferior' Brits. It makes complete sense that Next would want to get workers from Poland before getting them from Britain.

I refer you all to my previous posts on the matter, especially on page 1. I was the only one saying it as it is. All you lefties were bothered about was having a go at me when what I said was total utter common sense. You lefties need to come into the real world.

So all you that say Next should prioritise Brits over Poles need to get an abject apology sorted. It will be accepted with good grace and I'll say no more about it.

Hold your horses fella! No one said anything about superior, the idea since the 90's has been to work smarter, not harder. Problem is the people who have got the ability to bring the change in mindset about haven't got a clue of where to start.  Their too busy carrying out that wonderful feat of management by cost cutting here and cost cutting there!!! To support my thinking, I ask you what are the first two departments that get raped when cost "effiencies" have to be made? Answer, research and development and training!!!! Two of the very departments that have led to way in countries such as Japan and Taiwan etc in capturing markets that used to be ours!!!!

[IC1967]

I think it is fair say that overall the Poles are 'superior' workers. Better educated, harder working, more flexible etc. sounds like the word superior fits the bill.

I agree that the quality of management leaves a lot to be desired. There is far too much short term thinking for my liking. There is hope on the horizon though. Give it a few years and the superior foreign workers will be in management positions and things will improve. We have a lot to thank our Polish friends for.

[IC1967]

I really cannot understand how you can be so blind to events in relatively recent history that have a direct influence upon how we are today. It's not very much of an exaggeration to say that that woman, along with Hayek and a few others, defined, laid out and created the entire culture, values and philosophy establsihed throught western society today. Have you ever wondered just what role that set of values has had, continues to have, in creating the circumstances we see today in the Middle East, parts of Africa and indeed the streets of London today?

BobG

I think you'll find politicians favoured the Keynesian approach to that of Hayek. That's why the national debt is now so large in many Western countries. Unfortunately the politicians only took on-board the spending part of his theories and ignored the mending the roof while the sun is shining part of his philosophy. Typical politicians, especially Labour ones.

I for one think that Western culture (although not perfect) has improved as time has gone on. For example there is far less racism and homophobia about today than there was in the golden age you hark back to. Women's rights have also improved a lot in this time. I could go on, but hopefully by now you are getting my drift.

[BobG]

I really can't think what it is that drives all his short termism you decry so much 1967..... Oh. wait a minute. The profit motive - as exemplified by the business moguls at politics ever since 1979 - colloquially known as the Tory party. oh. And if you don't think Hayek and his pals have set the western agenda for the last 30 odd years you need your bumps feeling.

BobG

[Savvy]

I think the focus on short term profits has done for this country from an economic output point of view! Awarding contracts/outscourcing based on lowest cost is one concept that particularly tickles me.  As Dr Deming would say "Its not what you pay, its what you get for your money that counts, price, without some measure of quality means nothing!"

I've used a simple example to demonstrate before, If you need a set of spark plugs for your car, and they cost £3 and last six months, but there is another set that costs £5 but last twelve months which one would you buy?

Another classic is measuring outcomes, like road traffic accidents, or school league tables, they tell you what has happened, where they happened and how they happened, but not a f***ing word on how to improve or prevent them!!!! Ofsted is just a counting house!!!

Would take a massive paradigm shift to get us back on track Bob!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Savvy/Bob

I suggest reading The State We're In by Will Hutton. Written 20 odd years ago, he contrasts the UK economic system (based on shareholder value and liquidity of companies, meaning that Directors have to provide constant immediate profits and dividends or risk having funds pulled by shareholders) with more long-term views held in Japan or Germany.

The comparison with Japan was sound on a corporate funding and governance level, but if course Japan has collapsed economically for other reasons, predominantly getting itself into a permanent deflationary spiral due to the mad Austerity policies of the late 1990s.

But the comparison with Germany is illuminating. Their approach is to tie workers, funders, shareholders and managers into a long-term mutually beneficial relationship. Loom what that has done for BMW, VAG, Siemens, etc,etc. Compare and contrast with our approach which has destroyed our manufacturing base.

Hutton gives examples from the early 90s of UK companies voraciously hoovering up weaker rivals, asset stripping them to provide dividends for shareholders, then throwing the husks away.

A mad way to run an economy. And what we're left with is the low productivity economy that we now have.

Well worth a read.

[Dagenham Rover]

Savvy/Bob

I suggest reading The State We're In by Will Hutton. Written 20 odd years ago, he contrasts the UK economic system (based on shareholder value and liquidity of companies, meaning that Directors have to provide constant immediate profits and dividends or risk having funds pulled by shareholders) with more long-term views held in Japan or Germany.

The comparison with Japan was sound on a corporate funding and governance level, but if course Japan has collapsed economically for other reasons, predominantly getting itself into a permanent deflationary spiral due to the mad Austerity policies of the late 1990s.

But the comparison with Germany is illuminating. Their approach is to tie workers, funders, shareholders and managers into a long-term mutually beneficial relationship. Loom what that has done for BMW, VAG, Siemens, etc,etc. Compare and contrast with our approach which has destroyed our manufacturing base.

Hutton gives examples from the early 90s of UK companies voraciously hoovering up weaker rivals, asset stripping them to provide dividends for shareholders, then throwing the husks away.

A mad way to run an economy. And what we're left with is the low productivity economy that we now have.

Well worth a read.

I worked for Siemens mid 90's to  2004  a very good firm to work for  certainly in those days, excellent benefits, discounts across the whole range of their companies with extra employee warranties on white goods purchased by you, salaries at the better end of the industry standards,  however they expected you to perform which was absolutely fair enough.

and before anybody says owt I only left because I was head hunted by the biggest manufacturer in my field and I'm still there!

[townmoorrover]

I think it is fair say that overall the Poles are 'superior' workers. Better educated, harder working, more flexible etc. sounds like the word superior fits the bill.

I agree that the quality of management leaves a lot to be desired. There is far too much short term thinking for my liking. There is hope on the horizon though. Give it a few years and the superior foreign workers will be in management positions and things will improve. We have a lot to thank our Polish friends for.

You really talk shite!!! I could say a few things on here but for contractual reasons I cannot but I could blow your argument out of the water!!

And yes Savvy can confirm by pm to yourself who I am and what I do for living for the st 10 years.

I would even go as far as to say I am willing to meet you so I could get my point across to you.

[IC1967]

I think it is fair say that overall the Poles are 'superior' workers. Better educated, harder working, more flexible etc. sounds like the word superior fits the bill.

I agree that the quality of management leaves a lot to be desired. There is far too much short term thinking for my liking. There is hope on the horizon though. Give it a few years and the superior foreign workers will be in management positions and things will improve. We have a lot to thank our Polish friends for.

You really talk shite!!! I could say a few things on here but for contractual reasons I cannot but I could blow your argument out of the water!!

And yes Savvy can confirm by pm to yourself who I am and what I do for living for the st 10 years.

I would even go as far as to say I am willing to meet you so I could get my point across to you.

Look it's very simple. I am the voice of reason and Savvy has backed up what I've said about Poles being superior workers to the Brits. I'm not saying they are superior to all Brits but in general they are. Of course there are some Brits that are just as good but unfortunately not nearly enough.

Therefore Next are totally justified in trying to recruit Poles before having to take on inferior Brits. It makes perfect commercial sense.