Next

[Savvy]

I wonder if Next's decision to locate a site in South Elmsall was inluenced by obtaining grants to regenerate mining areas, I wonder if they were offered attractive rates in an effort to bring employment  back to that area?

Yes it was Filo! Worked at Elmsall a few years back as a Duty Manager

[Filo]

I wonder if Next's decision to locate a site in South Elmsall was inluenced by obtaining grants to regenerate mining areas, I wonder if they were offered attractive rates in an effort to bring employment  back to that area?

Yes it was Filo! Worked at Elmsall a few years back as a Duty Manager

Therefore Next have a moral obligation to employ residents of the former mining areas that they obtained the grants for, or repay the grants back that were obtained dishonestly

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Morals and business aren't that close though are they Filo?

[IC1967]

The greater moral imperative is to employ the best staff so the business has a better chance of a successful future. I'm sure they do employ people from the surrounding area anyway.

[Jenny]

The greater moral imperative is to employ the best staff so the business has a better chance of a successful future. I'm sure they do employ people from the surrounding area anyway.

I never thought I would see the day but I agree with Mick here...

[Dagenham Rover]

The greater moral imperative is to employ the best staff so the business has a better chance of a successful future. I'm sure they do employ people from the surrounding area anyway.

I never thought I would see the day but I agree with Mick here...

I don't think anybodys saying they shouldn't employ the best available, but they should not advertise  in another country weeks before advertising here,  advertise locally first take the best qualified  if theres still vacancies then start advertising further afield and then theres no arguments.

[wilts rover]

Do you know anything about footy 1967?

BobG

I consider myself to be an expert on footy. I don't post much on the footy forum apart from stoutly defending our excellent manager now and then. I prefer a statistical approach when analysing a game but this seems to be frowned upon by the mods so has put me off contributing as there's always a good chance that my posts will get deleted. I can take a hint. It's a shame as I feel I'd have a lot to contribute. I feel the team would be doing better if I was allowed to post freely as Mr Dickov would be able to read my excellent advice and improve team performance.

Sorry Bob but I am shocked by the question!! Surely you have not forgotten Mad Mick's amazing stats posts showing why Dean Saunders was a poor manager and would get us relegated? This was the season we won the league and had the long sequence of being unbeaten away from home. Or his demonstration of why we should all stop supporting Rovers and join him as Leeds' fans? I am suprised.

[Savvy]

I wonder if Next's decision to locate a site in South Elmsall was inluenced by obtaining grants to regenerate mining areas, I wonder if they were offered attractive rates in an effort to bring employment  back to that area?

Yes it was Filo! Worked at Elmsall a few years back as a Duty Manager

Therefore Next have a moral obligation to employ residents of the former mining areas that they obtained the grants for, or repay the grants back that were obtained dishonestly

Not sure about them obtaining them dis-honestly, seem to recall at the time they were given the rate free exemptions from the local authorities, the area was on its arse. The company is still the major employer in the area but the reason they require agency labour is more to do with the working practices that they currently employ which are pre-historic in my view!

[Dagenham Rover]

The thing is that the local area can only supply a limited source of staff therefore they have to go further afield.

The Elmsall sites alone employ upwards of 3000 people.

Just to say Mick is talking a load of crap about most of the things he has said and Filo you way over estimated the wages paid to the staff.

 

I totally agree but theres places a lot closer to the site than Poland

[BillyStubbsTears]

Morals and business aren't that close though are they Filo?

No, but they used to be enforced through Govt regulation. And funnily enough, our economy did better in those days than it has done for the past 30 years.

Draw your own conclusions...

[Savvy]

Like I say the reason that a blue chip company like Next are struggling to recruit sufficent staff in this country is down to the job design and procedures. They operate a bonus system for staff involved in production which, as I stated at the time I worked there, the person responsible for introducing it should have been lined up against a wall and shot!!

[BobG]

Lol Wilts

I asked the question specifically to point out both the ignorance of the bloke and his stupidity in posting political dogma for months and months and months on a football forum. We all make the odd political comment - but very few on here open even one thread as an expression of politics. Mick does at least 5 a week. There's something seriously wrong with the bloke. How else can you exxplain the fatuousness of starting political debates on a football forum? Unless, I suppose, he thinks he is more likely to impress people with his sleight of hand on here than in a genuine forum for such blinkered opinion.

BobG

[Dagenham Rover]

Lol Wilts

I asked the question specifically to point out both the ignorance of the bloke and his stupidity in posting political dogma for months and months and months on a football forum. We all make the odd political comment - but very few on here open even one thread as an expression of politics. Mick does at least 5 a week. There's something seriously wrong with the bloke. How else can you exxplain the fatuousness of starting political debates on a football forum? Unless, I suppose, he thinks he is more likely to impress people with his sleight of hand on here than in a genuine forum for such blinkered opinion.

BobG

 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Savvy

Let me guess. Bonus system based on numbers and no allowance for quality?

[Bentley Bullet]

I wrote about 'Forum statesmen' about three or four years ago, and I wonder if IC1967 has similar views that gives him a compulsion to wind up certain posters on this forum.

As I said in my previous post, I do wonder what stimulus people get from a football forum if it is intellectual chat they are seeking. Surely there are more suitable forums available where their intellect will be more appreciated, and better understood.

It could be that they are happier as big fish in a small pond, not least because much of the gobbledegook they write camouflages a lot of b*llocks, and goes undetected by us simple footy fans who can’t be arsed to decipher it!

[idler]

I find life a lot simpler since I put Mick on the ignore poster list.
I don't waste anywhere near as much time reading rubbish.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's a tough one isn't it BB?

How about you chill out, stop worrying yourself with amateur psychology and just either join in discussions or ignore them?

[IC1967]

The greater moral imperative is to employ the best staff so the business has a better chance of a successful future. I'm sure they do employ people from the surrounding area anyway.

I never thought I would see the day but I agree with Mick here...

You are starting to see the light and the voice of reason is finally getting through. You are becoming a very sensible young lady. I salute your courage in agreeing with me in this den of leftie vipers.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's a tough one isn't it BB?

How about you chill out, stop worrying yourself with amateur psychology and just either join in discussions or ignore them?

It's not really me who should be worrying mate.

[IC1967]

Do you know anything about footy 1967?

BobG

I consider myself to be an expert on footy. I don't post much on the footy forum apart from stoutly defending our excellent manager now and then. I prefer a statistical approach when analysing a game but this seems to be frowned upon by the mods so has put me off contributing as there's always a good chance that my posts will get deleted. I can take a hint. It's a shame as I feel I'd have a lot to contribute. I feel the team would be doing better if I was allowed to post freely as Mr Dickov would be able to read my excellent advice and improve team performance.

Sorry Bob but I am shocked by the question!! Surely you have not forgotten Mad Mick's amazing stats posts showing why Dean Saunders was a poor manager and would get us relegated? This was the season we won the league and had the long sequence of being unbeaten away from home. Or his demonstration of why we should all stop supporting Rovers and join him as Leeds' fans? I am suprised.

I think you'll find it was due to madmick pointing out the errors of Saunders ways by his excellent use of statistics and his eloquent advice on team building that Saunders turned it around. Fair play to Saunders. He read the posts and took on the advice and the rest is history as they say. Madmick's predictions would have come to pass if Saunders had ignored his advice. It's just a shame that the mods won't allow me to help Dickov.

[Savvy]

Savvy

Let me guess. Bonus system based on numbers and no allowance for quality?

Correct Billy!

Having had various arguements with the "O &M" department (time and motion to most of us!) I managed to establish that the performance level per shift for each employee was set at 85%.  Here's me wanting 100% of all the staff working in my department and indeed was employed on the understanding that it was my raison d'etre! So when I asked why 85% I was told that it was gleened from studies which revealed that the average performance per day was 85%. So that told me straight away that 50% of the people working there could achieve more than the 85% required, but more importantly there were 50% of the people who worked there that couldn't achieve more than 85%!!!!

It gets better, those who don't achieve 85% over the week, are to be "councilled" the following week and ultimately if performance didn't improve, taken down the disciplinary route. 

Turning to those who could achieve more than the minimum 85% could earn an extra £3 per hour based on the following performance levels for the week (I've been left awhile so bear with me if the exact percentage isnt right but it's near as!!!) 85%- 100% extra pound an hour, 100%-110% extra two pound an hour, 110% to 125% (yes feel free to start laughing!!!) an extra three pounds per hour!!!

Sounds great doesn't it? Reward people for what they do, no need to manage people, just manage outcomes!!!!

Here are a few of the little nuances thrown up by this scheme that affect operational efficency,

Filling in bonus forms incorrectly could be construed as fraud resulting in dismissal for gross mis-conduct! Nothing special about that you say, until you see what little time is spent on training a new employee to fill them out (and the loss of productive time each day to fill them in!)

An individual's performance could be directly affected by work they were given, for example someone may have to walk the length of the warehouse to pick 100 items whilst someone walks the same distance for 300 items, which would distort actual performance levels.

Also and probably most importantly, the work area and type of items picked had a significant impact on performance. For example all shoes at the time were picked at Dale lane where the O and M timings meant that people were working through their breaks just to hit 85% and other areas such has stadium 2 with the highbay Warehouse were achieving 125% easily due to the amount of mechanisation involved!! The best way of explaining this came from a mate of mine whilst travelling back from an away game and putting the world to rights as you do! He worked at Bentley pit, and he told me the lads on the face were working with picks and shovels to get next to nothing in bonus whilst the lads at Selby were churning it out onto the conveyeors and making a fortune in bonus!!!

Another issue that was thrown up by this excellent bonus scheme was that on a Friday we always seemed to struggle to pick the days required target. The lads on the floor explained to me that they were that smart that they had worked out how to calculate when they had worked to the maximum bonus performance for that week, and usually by Thursday, they had it cracked so that they could just go through the motions on a Friday!!!!!!

Also, something that happened rarely, but still created an issue in respect of bonus payments were sending personnel to another Warehouse (still in the same industrial estate) if they got too far behind with the picking orders. From picking garments, my staff would then be sent over to work with equipment and materials that they were unfamiliar with and in an environment that was alien to them. They were given a "Training allowance" in respect of their bonus performance, but that still didn't allow them to achieve what they would have achieved in their own department. You can imagine how the news to go across the road to Elmsall Way was greeted!!!  Remember how I said it was a weekly calculated bonus, and most of the lads would get around £100 a week, or £400 a month, or at least enough to pay the mortgage, by sending them to another warehouse for a day/week could have a significant impact on their take home pay for the month!!!!

The bonus system also threw up other issues, but I think most of you will get the gist of how the system was far from satisfactory and led to sub-optimisation of your most important resource!!!

Hope that this explains my line about the person who introduced it being lined up against a wall and being shot!!!!  Don't even get me started on Supervisors and Managers bonuses!!!

As for the solution..........scrap the scheme, put £1.50 per hour on the rates (the average amount of bonus that could be earned) and then get the supervisors/managers to do what they should be doing, namely manage people and not outcomes!!!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Savvy

Many, many thanks for that depressing read.

Your final sentence sums it up. We are in a tyranny of management by accountancy. Set metrics and determine success or failure by those and those alone.

It's a facile approach that wilfully ignores the complexities of the real world. But it means that management systems can be streamlined and simplified. Because no authority is given to middle managers to actually manage.

[Savvy]

Unfortunately knowledge sounds foolish to fools Bill! The seminal work in this area was done by William Edwards Deming in 1984 in a book called "out of the crisis". I my opinion should be read by anyone entering management or wishing to call themselves a manager.

Take a look at this as an example for starters!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeWTD-0BRS4

[Sheepskin Stu]

I can vouch for Savvy's post about targets. I worked for B&Q years ago and they used 75% as their target. The topic of conversation on Fridays was always "have you done your minutes?" Folk who took the piss during the week were often seen rushing about trying to attain that magic 75% mark! The management there were clueless.

[Filo]

I can vouch for Savvy's post about targets. I worked for B&Q years ago and they used 75% as their target. The topic of conversation on Fridays was always "have you done your minutes?" Folk who took the piss during the week were often seen rushing about trying to attain that magic 75% mark! The management there were clueless.

In my experience in industry and as a union rep, the vast majority of management are clueless

[Dagenham Rover]

I can vouch for Savvy's post about targets. I worked for B&Q years ago and they used 75% as their target. The topic of conversation on Fridays was always "have you done your minutes?" Folk who took the piss during the week were often seen rushing about trying to attain that magic 75% mark! The management there were clueless.

In my experience in industry and as a union rep, the vast majority of management are clueless

Its that old adage "shite bus driver so they promoted him to Inspector"   

[Filo]

I can vouch for Savvy's post about targets. I worked for B&Q years ago and they used 75% as their target. The topic of conversation on Fridays was always "have you done your minutes?" Folk who took the piss during the week were often seen rushing about trying to attain that magic 75% mark! The management there were clueless.

In my experience in industry and as a union rep, the vast majority of management are clueless

Its that old adage "shite bus driver so they promoted him to Inspector"   

Most managers are selfish t**ts, that don't care about their workforce, our manager at Pilks called us all in for a meeting to announce the closure of the Doncaster site, he started the meeting by telling us he was leaving Doncaster to take position at another site, throwing us all on the dole while celebrating that he had still got a job, the t**t!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Savvy

Many, many thanks for that depressing read.

Your final sentence sums it up. We are in a tyranny of management by accountancy. Set metrics and determine success or failure by those and those alone.

It's a facile approach that wilfully ignores the complexities of the real world. But it means that management systems can be streamlined and simplified. Because no authority is given to middle managers to actually manage.

Reminds me of everything Mick comes out with. Are you sure it wasn't him that came up with this one for Next?

[IC1967]

The last few posts may be very interesting in how the bonus scheme works but the main issue is still being ignored. Why do Next prefer Polish workers to Brits?

[Savvy]

Better work ethic, better educated are just two reasons that spring to mind! Prepared to work overtime at a moments notice, and more reliable would be others!