Referendum prediction poll

[The Red Baron]

I would argue that with a referendum people need a bit longer to consider the issues at stake. The length of the Scottish referendum campaign was ridiculous, but was done purely for the benefit of the SNP. This feels about right.

[Metalmicky]

In we go.... I would like to leave please, but I have a question which is very serious.

"Why are we having to wait until until 23rd June to put a cross in one of only two boxes on a piece of paper. The Irish Republic just three weeks ago....21 days no less called a General Election with multiple boxes on to be considered. This Friday 21 days later they are holding the Election nut why do we have to wait so long.

Just a thought...

Could have something to do with the extra 60 million people required to vote..........

[bally1950]

Yes but have you ever been for walks around Rural Ireland. One cottage here and one half way up a mountain some miles away...No post on Saturday or Sundays either.  Typical British. Just like dying.....Dead and buried in most countries two or three days, here weeks. I have seen some obvious deaths and circumstances but still we have to have a P M and then drag it out at a time when families just do not need it.

[The Red Baron]

One (fairly significant) consideration in this for me would be where we would stand in regard to TTIP if we leave. Would we escape the EU/US agreement?

Interestingly, Kate Hoey (one of the few current politicians I admire) has just mentioned TTIP as a good reason to vote to Leave.

[bally1950]

The European Governments are already laying the Threats and Bullying tactics and demands, if we never go now then we are fodder for the rest of Europe. The Jungle Camp will never be in Dover because they cannot swim that far.  The danger is that anyone under 40 years of age knows no different than the EU or as it was "The Common Market"

WE have fought two world wards for the Europeans and stated our case very well, it is OUT for me, not having that lot telling me what to do and  our beaches are not up to European standards or we cannot kick out International terrorists AND our so called Legal system is paid for by us to keep them here. Australia has the idea. Take it or leave it. It is about time The British Isles had their own Civil Liberties.and Human Rights Bill again...... On that point, if the Scots and Welsh want to get independence then why not, they in general do not like the English as we know when we visit their countries some times (Not all of Scots and Welsh I may add).

Finally the big bug bear of mine with ancestors and late wife's family from Ireland, put the shutters up and get the Irish to sort one Country not two, one governed by the British..And one by the Pope  take away the religion and all that crap (Yes I am a Catholic) so I state a good case. I visit Ireland regularly as my son does. I can tell you that their politics at this moment may just have a certain Gerry Adams as the Prime Minister in the Doile' , then it will be a matter of time.

[bally1950]

DAIL that is.

[Glyn_Wigley]

WE have fought two world wards for the Europeans and stated our case very well, it is OUT for me, not having that lot telling me what to do and  our beaches are not up to European standards or we cannot kick out International terrorists AND our so called Legal system is paid for by us to keep them here.

That's the European Court of Human Rights, which is nothing to do with the EU. Voting No won't change anything regarding that.

This is the big problem, lots of people don't actaully what the EU really is or does and confuse it with other things and attribute all sorts of rubbish as being down to the EU.

PS As for the EU telling the general public which beaches are less hygenic than others...how very dare they?

[bally1950]

Alright Glyn.. Simple terms leave them to sort their own problems and we look after ours. SIMPLES. Better still tell them go Fk off

[Glyn_Wigley]

And after telling them to Fk off, are you one of those expecting them to bend over backwards and let us have a Free Trade Agreement that's favourable to us and not to them..?

[bally1950]

Why don't you just roll over on your back

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well that argument has convinced me!

[bally1950]

You vote which way you want and I will vote which way I want, in the end one of us will get our own way.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Democracy will get its own way, otherwise its worthless.

[bally1950]

Yes I agree but people have aright of choice without ridicule

[Glyn_Wigley]

Really? I've never heard of that right, what law enshrines that?

[bally1950]

oh we are trying to take the piss.  Well my statement is under the law of BALLISM... you want to take it on then do so. I have noted over the last few months you just like to wind people up and talk absolute rubbish but if you are that sad then crack on 

[Savvy]

Wouldn't waste my time Bally!!! Like you say, the amount of people who it appears are prepared to accept this busted flush is laughable!!! A vote to remain in see's the end of this country as we know it!!!!

[BobG]

It's just soo sad the number of people who haven't got a damn clue about what the EC is and what the EC is not.  And you know what's worse? These people are actually allowed to vote. It's downright scary. Just imagine. They could be sat on a jury one day too. Ignorance in all its glory.

BobG

[idler]

There are very intelligent people voting to stay in and very intelligent people to come out.
Therefore you are ignoring very intelligent people whichever way you vote.
I'm voting to come out, I've never been on a jury though Bob.

[The Red Baron]

It's just soo sad the number of people who haven't got a damn clue about what the EC is and what the EC is not.  And you know what's worse? These people are actually allowed to vote. It's downright scary. Just imagine. They could be sat on a jury one day too. Ignorance in all its glory.

BobG

What's the EC, Bob? Unless you mean the European Commission? We joined the European Economic Community which became the European Community and then the European Union.

And therein lies the problem. I rather like the idea of being in a Community, less so in a Union whose ultimate destination is a United States of Europe.

[bally1950]

And are clearly wanting somewhere to dump the migrant problem, even threatening us, they will move the passport control to Dover, well lets hope the migrants can swim and dodge the heavy shipping. THAT ALSO may be why there is a big meeting an urgent one at that on migration, the borders are going back up, so who is right them or us.. My dad always said. "Build that channel tunnel and a worse disease than rabies will be in this Country".. Round about the same time Enoch Powell made his speech on the "Streets of London". Two very wise men in my view

[Yargo]

It's just soo sad the number of people who haven't got a damn clue about what the EC is and what the EC is not.  And you know what's worse? These people are actually allowed to vote. It's downright scary. Just imagine. They could be sat on a jury one day too. Ignorance in all its glory.

BobG

Isn't it called the European Union now?

[BobG]

I gave up remembering its manifold names years ago Shorthand usually works so for my EC just substitute your personal choice of European acronym

Cheers !

Bob

[The Red Baron]

It does matter though, Bob.

Up until the Maastricht Treaty to the extent I'd given it a lot of thought, I broadly felt it was a good idea. Ever since, I've been an outer.

I'm all for us trading with and having good relations with other European nations. I'm against a superstate or Federal Europe. The latter is what Maastricht aimed to create. The feeble "reforms" which Cameron claims to have achieved do nothing to roll that back.

[BobG]

My beliefs are based on something entirely different John. I don't care about union or singularity. For me, it's not important. I've described my feelings before, and I'm too tired to do it again now. But it's based on a long historical perspective and the attempt to ensure we learn from history.

Bob

[auckleyflyer]

Right my two-peneth?
Yes = security for peace and for closer working.
No = For cost, Red tape, generic rules for vastly differing countries.

Trade!! no argument, we traded before the EU, we trade outside the EU now? we buy our Japanese cars/bikes our Chinese everything our American everything, even down to the banana boats bringing our fruits.
The threat that the u boats will be patrolling the shipping lanes again and we'll somehow starve outside of Europe is nonsense!
We have thousands of years of being firstly Albion then Brittan and the England we were until the 70's. We have 30yrs of being part of a wider Europe.
The only way I see us staying is though fear and apathy, it takes courage to change so although ill be voting out I fully expect us to lack the appetite for change

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bally
"Dumping the migrant problem on us."

I despair.

Go and have a look at how many of the recent migrants are in Greece, Italy, Germany and Sweden.

And then have a look at how many are in the UK.

And then come back and tell us if you really think the EU is trying to dump the problem on us.

This is the biggest decision we will ever make. Make it, armed with facts, instead of ill-informed bigotry.

[The Red Baron]

BST

I don't agree with Bally and you are right to point out that the UK is suffering a lot less from the current migration crisis than many EU states are. The fact that we wisely opted out of Schengen has a lot to do with this.

Equally the Calais migrant camps- which contain very few genuine refugees- are not a consequence of EU membership, more of the French government's failure to get a grip on the situation (I don't think our pusillanimous bunch would do any better, by the way.)

But when the head of Project Fear, aka the British Prime Minister, goes around raising the spectre of migrant camps in southern England if we vote to leave. And when a French minister threatens to rip up the agreement over borders if we leave. And when President Hollande has a touch of the Napoleons and tells us Brits that there will be "consequences" if we vote to leave...

... Well, you can understand that some people might think that the EU was about to dump something nasty on our doorstep.

Maybe Cameron should start setting out a rather more positive case. The above is an object lesson in how negative campaigning and scare tactics can rebound.

[Donnywolf]

The Prime Minister and his hoppoes (?) are as you say just playing the "frightening Card" be that over immigration or our economic viablilty going forwards - plus any other issues

This is what I expected BUT this vote needs to be got right - it needs positive campaigning - with FACTS being uppermost NOT scare stories

I started this Poll just to see what people thought and I thought we would vote to leave and I probably think now that "inertia" and the "frightened of the future" will result in a "Remain" vote and that could be a shame if it is the wrong decision for us. However I don't think we are going to have the "facts" or what are passed to us as facts are going to be produced any time soon !

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB
I very much dislike the Project Fear approach. There is an extremely important positive side to the EU, and the fact that Putin wants nothing more than to see the EU riven by splits and hamstrung should finish the argument before it starts.

But, if we're talking nasty, grubby, gutter politics, which is where we usually end up in this country...

The Leave supporters do need a wake up call. The Leave argument is peppered with an unpleasant xenophobic attitude. It heaps opprobrium on the EU and often on Europeans. It laps up and recycles ignorant and incorrect arguments and fosters a nasty attitude towards Europe.

That's not everyone on the Leave side by the way. But it's a good part of it. Led, most prominently by the two disgusting rags, the Mail and Express. (NB. And it's rich of the Leave side to moan about negativity when these two standard-bearers have been peddling disgusting filth and lies on this topic for a generation. You reap what you sow...)

Now, imagine a world where the Leave side has won. As French President, why would you not say, "f**k this! If the UK wants to tear up co-operation with Europe, let's start by allowing the migrants at Calais onto the first boat and let the British deal with them at their end."

If we want to indulge our Little Englander fantasies, don't blame others for pointing out that there are downsides.