BREXIT

[GazLaz]

BST do you know of or anything about Jim Mellon?

[Filo]

I see the Chairman of Tesco has come out in support of the remain campaign, he says that leaving would be catastrophic for small business, leading them to be bullied out of business. Yes thats the same Tesco that bullies their own suppliers into signing an agreement to be exclusive to Tesco and who Tesco can ditch on a whim!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST do you know of or anything about Jim Mellon?

Nope. Never heard of him.

[auckleyflyer]

My other half had an interesting e-mail from her Israeli friend who couldn't get his head around the fact we saved Europe twice in the last century, it would not look like it does today without us. Yet we look likely to be leaving?!?! Crazy to him.
To me the eu's feked and will fall apart anyway. I don't want us to be the reason. There will be abject poverty when it happens and with that will come wars! I'm happy that at the min the weaker nations look to Germany as the self serving nation of Europe. Id hate the whole region to point at us and collectively say you did this! Scary.

[Lipsy]

If the 'Remain' campaign is 'Project fear' then what in the name of all that is unholy is this?



That, right there, is a disgrace. Naturally, the moron brigade are showing their true colours by offering their support to this garbage. Do remember that you're not allowed to use the 'r' word about anyone supporting 'Leave'.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

If the 'Remain' campaign is 'Project fear' then what in the name of all that is unholy is this?



That, right there, is a disgrace. Naturally, the moron brigade are showing their true colours by offering their support to this garbage. Do remember that you're not allowed to use the 'r' word about anyone supporting 'Leave'.

Totally agree, it is a disgrace.  The leave argument isn't and shouldn't be about that, shame on them.

A few old colleagues of mine lost friends in Orlando, some of them also attend that club, so it makes it even worse to me that anyone would use that.

There is a point in extremism being worse and open borders can harm us in some ways in allowing movement of people, but to say it will stop it is wrong. They could still get here and how many terrorist attacks in the country have been caused by foreigners?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Everyone seems to think it is a f**king disgrace. Apart from Farage. He's done his usual thing of throwing his hands up and saying "Leave.eu? Nothing to do with me!" Even though he has consistently backed the organisation and regularly discusses strategy with their leaders.

He was given ample opportunity to express his disgust at that poster today. He flatly refused to do so. The man is beyond disgusting.

[Dn2Dn0]

I actually find it unbelievable. Surely that must have passed through a number of people's hands before being released, people educated to some level, and not one of them questioned the morality of releasing it.

Surely it's also been counter productive. I can't imagine anyone changing their vote to leave because of that poster/tweet but can imagine a lot of undecided or people marginally voting leave changing to remain.

[Glyn_Wigley]

That poster is so ridiculous it actually looks like a spoof one you'd see in Private Eye rather than an offical one!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dn

That's the generous interpretation.

 The cynical one is that they know damn f**king well what they are doing; anything and everything to keep immigration the No1 issue in the public debate.

It's interesting that Farage refused all those opportunities to disown that poster today, but he chose instead to hammer on the immigration issue. So the cynic in me does wonder if it is an utterly deliberate policy. Which, frankly, is more frightening that disgusting.

We already know that there is no bigger liar in politics than Farage. I don't for a moment believe that he's above orchestrating this sort of stunt to give him a stage to push his line.

Remember that he's not trying to win a rational argument. He's appeal to gut instincts. It does make you wonder what depths he'd consider to be too low to plumb if he's not prepared to condemn the use of the murder of 50 people for political purposes.

[Lipsy]

It actually does look like a fake, doesn't it? Sadly, it's not.

I think that the thing that bothers me (aside from all the obvious things) is that idea that, as you said Dn2Dn0, people saw it and thought it was fine to put it out there. Not only that but those very same people figured it would strike a chord with 'Brexiteers'... Depressingly, there were plenty of people who saw it that agreed with it.

They walk among us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Trump has said:

The immigration laws of the United States give the president powers to suspend entry into the country of any class of persons. ... I would use this power to protect the American people. When I'm elected, I will suspend immigration from areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies, until we fully understand how to end these threats.

So that'll mean, off the top of my head:

UK
Ireland
France
Belgium
Germany
Italy
Spain

f**k me. To think that this dipshit might actually win in November.

[BobG]

I used to think Bush the Younger was a buffoon. Not any longer. There's only 2 possibilities aren't there? Either Trump really does believe this idiotic statement, or, he's saying it to get votes. But if it's that, what the chuffing hell does he think will happen if/when he opens the front door of the White House?

Remember all that stuff about 'Terrorists won't make us change our values or the way we live'? Hmmm. Airports? Surveillance. 50 billion plods on the streets of France this month. A state of national emergency in France that's now entering, what? It's 4th month? Rampant racism and xenophobic nationalism becoming acceptable in mainstream politics on both sides of the Atlantic. All at least partly, if not wholly, due to the impact that terrorism has. Just think for a few minutes - add Trump to that and what will we all get....?

BobG

[Sammy Chung was King]

It's very sad to see most of the world, giving way to hatred, you can feel it building. Leave or stay in should have nothing to do with hatred, when you vote, you vote for what you think is right. Immigration is part of it, but there are many other things to consider before putting you're cross in the box.
People think the world is bad now, wait a while, and see people like farage, trump etc get any sort of power, and you will want time to go back to where we are now.
Both those men appeal because of what is seen as them being straight talking, and they are supposedly thinking like you. These sort of people reveal very little until in power, they hold back the real extreme views they have, give them power and you could very easily be putting into power similar men to hitler.

I know some will say, they wouldn't do anything like he did, how do we know?. I'm sure many thought the same of hitler, before he was in power, we live in ever increasing dangerous times, that tell me we have learned very little from history.
I am concerned about many things in our country, and the world as a whole, i have already finished my vote, and it didn't take in either sides prejudices, i voted for my future, my families, and that which i think is best for the country. The world is in chaos at the minute.
All i would say to anybody who hasn't voted, don't let any hatred into you're heart, choose what's best in you're opinion for you're family and friends.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is the man who could soon have his finger on the red button.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Compare and contrast.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

[BillyStubbsTears]

That nasty European Court of Justice eh?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36526158

[Lipsy]

Isn't the nasty European Court of Justice all about bringing us to our knees, whilst the EU has spent years asset-stripping this once great nation of ours? I am reading from the right script, yes?

[The Red Baron]

I'm afraid Tom Watson is misleading people by suggesting that free movement rules can be changed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36523759

Cameron would have loved to have brought back that sort of change.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Surprised to see the polls largely showing a leave lead at the moment, it would still very much surprise me.  Fair to say it's a tight race.

The campaigning on both fronts gets no better though does it?

[The Red Baron]

Vote Leave have tweeted this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/vote_leave/status/742747673598517252

Interesting polling data but I'm not sure I draw the same conclusions that they do. If the lukewarm Remainers haven't been persuaded to the Leave side by now, is it likely that they will be in the last few days?

[Bentley Bullet]

Just as a matter of interest has anyone in this thread had a change of opinion regarding which way to vote?

[Filo]

Just as a matter of interest has anyone in this thread had a change of opinion regarding which way to vote?

Not me, I'm voting to leave

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Just as a matter of interest has anyone in this thread had a change of opinion regarding which way to vote?

Not me, I'm voting to leave

Likewise. Tough choice but my mind hasn't changed.

[RedJ]

Nope. Voting Remain.

[i_ateallthepies]

The only positive of a leave result would be that Cameron would get what the t**t deserves.  The satisfaction of that though would be short-lived given that we would lumber ourselves with Boris Johnson.  The debates on here have only strengthened my conviction to remain.

[auckleyflyer]

Remain, I'm no EU fan but its not our job to destroy it. That would be the ultimate outcome. Stay in, keep out of the euro zone and restrict the damage when it implodes in 2yrs time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just as a matter of interest has anyone in this thread had a change of opinion regarding which way to vote?

Not me, I'm voting to leave

Don't moan when the self-inflicted recession comes along then Filo.

Turkeys and Christmas...

[MachoMadness]

Considering the vast majority of Leave's arguments have been debunked by facts, and yet are mystifyingly still being peddled, nope, I'm still Remain.

[bobjimwilly]

The only to reason to leave would be that life is that bad there's no alternative, which is of course not true for the vast majority of British citizens. You've got the economic/trade argument and, of course, the immigration issues. It looks more and more likely that if we leave immigration from the EU won't change dramatically as EU countries will demand free movement of people in return for favourable trade deals, and even with those deals our economy will shrink and suffer, especially in the short-term. So why leave?

You've also got this big amount of money we will save that can be spent on other things, such as the NHS, schools, British forces. Now, who in their right mind thinks the Tories will spend any money we save on these things??

*Drops the mic*

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

You've also got this big amount of money we will save that can be spent on other things, such as the NHS, schools, British forces. Now, who in their right mind thinks the Tories will spend any money we save on these things??

This in my view is actually not relevant to the debate.  The point is we would have those funds as a country and the ability for our government directly elected by our people to decide what it should be spent on.  Not a European parliament spreading it far and wide.  There's many things different parties have and will choose that I'm no fan of, but it doesn't make any difference to the stance on Europe.

As for Sturgeon's comments about voting remain to prevent another party doing what she doesn't want, that's out of order.  The people of the country have decided in elections who should be in power and that should be respected.  It's certainly not a reason to vote to stay in the EU at all.

As for Osbourne's so called 'revenge budget', that scaremongering is not right and should be frowned upon, though it doesn't surprise me with him either.

I still would be surprised to see leave win, but it's close.