Brexit Negotiations

[hoolahoop]

How does this fit in with you ridiculous and frankly childish opinion on the safety of our neighbours  ?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-commit-to-new-defence-cooperation&ved=2ahUKEwj0w6Si4MDdAhWqC8AKHQTHCS0QFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1wwoEmYDXeCeLmTuArXhqD

There are others and seeing as though we are still a part of the European continent rather than North America - THEIR  safety is OURS . Do you think we patrol the whole of the North Sea as well as the Channel without help from our European allies ?

We all ensure each others safety ! You watch too many WW11 films with a heavy British slant to them

3 chinooks and 100 troops doesn't make the entente Cordiale! As for Estonia we signal our intention to pull out and leave em to it!

You know we're still part of NATO x

Sproty has a weird vision of what it means to leave the EU . Fact is we work very closely and on occasions inter- changeable with them in many flash points/ disasters  around the globe.

Yes we are so close that we have pulled all of our Armour out of Germany, that leaves the 60,000 stroking German Army a bit vulnerable, considering Putin has just put 300,000 troops into the field.

186, 431 Troops
432 - combat tanks
4620- armoured fighting vehicles

Do you just pluck figures out of the air in the hope that you won't get caught out  ?

Just for the record how many troops can we put in the field ?

Incidentally I was originally referring to the relationship between France and ourselves.

[Sprotyrover]

How does this fit in with you ridiculous and frankly childish opinion on the safety of our neighbours  ?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-commit-to-new-defence-cooperation&ved=2ahUKEwj0w6Si4MDdAhWqC8AKHQTHCS0QFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1wwoEmYDXeCeLmTuArXhqD

There are others and seeing as though we are still a part of the European continent rather than North America - THEIR  safety is OURS . Do you think we patrol the whole of the North Sea as well as the Channel without help from our European allies ?

We all ensure each others safety ! You watch too many WW11 films with a heavy British slant to them

3 chinooks and 100 troops doesn't make the entente Cordiale! As for Estonia we signal our intention to pull out and leave em to it!

You know we're still part of NATO x

Sproty has a weird vision of what it means to leave the EU . Fact is we work very closely and on occasions inter- changeable with them in many flash points/ disasters  around the globe.

Yes we are so close that we have pulled all of our Armour out of Germany, that leaves the 60,000 stroking German Army a bit vulnerable, considering Putin has just put 300,000 troops into the field.

186, 431 Troops
432 - combat tanks
4620- armoured fighting vehicles

Do you just pluck figures out of the air in the hope that you won't get caught out  ?

Just for the record how many troops can we put in the field ?

Incidentally I was originally referring to the relationship between France and ourselves.

How does this fit in with you ridiculous and frankly childish opinion on the safety of our neighbours  ?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-commit-to-new-defence-cooperation&ved=2ahUKEwj0w6Si4MDdAhWqC8AKHQTHCS0QFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1wwoEmYDXeCeLmTuArXhqD

There are others and seeing as though we are still a part of the European continent rather than North America - THEIR  safety is OURS . Do you think we patrol the whole of the North Sea as well as the Channel without help from our European allies ?

We all ensure each others safety ! You watch too many WW11 films with a heavy British slant to them

3 chinooks and 100 troops doesn't make the entente Cordiale! As for Estonia we signal our intention to pull out and leave em to it!

You know we're still part of NATO x

Sproty has a weird vision of what it means to leave the EU . Fact is we work very closely and on occasions inter- changeable with them in many flash points/ disasters  around the globe.

Yes we are so close that we have pulled all of our Armour out of Germany, that leaves the 60,000 stroking German Army a bit vulnerable, considering Putin has just put 300,000 troops into the field.

186, 431 Troops
432 - combat tanks
4620- armoured fighting vehicles

Do you just pluck figures out of the air in the hope that you won't get caught out  ?

Just for the record how many troops can we put in the field ?

Incidentally I was originally referring to the relationship between France and ourselves.

No I merely read the full Wikipedia Article you have just quoted from! in March 2018 there were 61,500 German Soldiers on active service!

[Glyn_Wigley]

How does this fit in with you ridiculous and frankly childish opinion on the safety of our neighbours  ?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-commit-to-new-defence-cooperation&ved=2ahUKEwj0w6Si4MDdAhWqC8AKHQTHCS0QFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1wwoEmYDXeCeLmTuArXhqD

There are others and seeing as though we are still a part of the European continent rather than North America - THEIR  safety is OURS . Do you think we patrol the whole of the North Sea as well as the Channel without help from our European allies ?

We all ensure each others safety ! You watch too many WW11 films with a heavy British slant to them

3 chinooks and 100 troops doesn't make the entente Cordiale! As for Estonia we signal our intention to pull out and leave em to it!

You know we're still part of NATO x

Sproty has a weird vision of what it means to leave the EU . Fact is we work very closely and on occasions inter- changeable with them in many flash points/ disasters  around the globe.

Yes we are so close that we have pulled all of our Armour out of Germany, that leaves the 60,000 stroking German Army a bit vulnerable, considering Putin has just put 300,000 troops into the field.

186, 431 Troops
432 - combat tanks
4620- armoured fighting vehicles

Do you just pluck figures out of the air in the hope that you won't get caught out  ?

Just for the record how many troops can we put in the field ?

Incidentally I was originally referring to the relationship between France and ourselves.

How does this fit in with you ridiculous and frankly childish opinion on the safety of our neighbours  ?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-commit-to-new-defence-cooperation&ved=2ahUKEwj0w6Si4MDdAhWqC8AKHQTHCS0QFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1wwoEmYDXeCeLmTuArXhqD

There are others and seeing as though we are still a part of the European continent rather than North America - THEIR  safety is OURS . Do you think we patrol the whole of the North Sea as well as the Channel without help from our European allies ?

We all ensure each others safety ! You watch too many WW11 films with a heavy British slant to them

3 chinooks and 100 troops doesn't make the entente Cordiale! As for Estonia we signal our intention to pull out and leave em to it!

You know we're still part of NATO x

Sproty has a weird vision of what it means to leave the EU . Fact is we work very closely and on occasions inter- changeable with them in many flash points/ disasters  around the globe.

Yes we are so close that we have pulled all of our Armour out of Germany, that leaves the 60,000 stroking German Army a bit vulnerable, considering Putin has just put 300,000 troops into the field.

186, 431 Troops
432 - combat tanks
4620- armoured fighting vehicles

Do you just pluck figures out of the air in the hope that you won't get caught out  ?

Just for the record how many troops can we put in the field ?

Incidentally I was originally referring to the relationship between France and ourselves.

No I merely read the full Wikipedia Article you have just quoted from! in March 2018 there were 61,500 German Soldiers on active service!

How many German soldiers are there not on active service?

[Sprotyrover]

 Oh quelle surprise , NOT ! Hello Glynn nice to see the 'Menagerie of four ' all out in Force.

I would say 61,500 the rest of the figure is the service corps,  which we out sourced to private companies, such as Sodexo, Capita and Serco

I'm counting Bayonet Strength the rest are not classed as regular front line infantry.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Oh quelle surprise , NOT ! Hello Glynn nice to see the 'Menagerie of four ' all out in Force.

I would say 61,500 the rest of the figure is the service corps,  which we out sourced to private companies, such as Sodexo, Capita and Serco

I'm counting Bayonet Strength the rest are not classed as regular front line infantry.

I was just asking out of curiosity because the figures seem to be so disparate, so you can shove your 'Menagerie of four ' conspiracy theory back into whatever orifice it came out of.

As for your answer when you say 'I would say', does that mean a guess? I still don't know how many German soldiers there are not on active service.

[hoolahoop]

Oh quelle surprise , NOT ! Hello Glynn nice to see the 'Menagerie of four ' all out in Force.

I would say 61,500 the rest of the figure is the service corps,  which we out sourced to private companies, such as Sodexo, Capita and Serco

I'm counting Bayonet Strength the rest are not classed as regular front line infantry.

Plus que ça change plus c'est la même chose - same shit, different day.

How apt Sproty that you came out with a French expression to discuss further my original point which referred to our joint self- defence agreements with France not Germany
This is what I refer to :-

"We will develop a Combined Joint Expeditionary Force suitable for a wide range of scenarios, up to and including high intensity operations. It will involve all three Services: there will be a land component comprised of formations at national brigade level, maritime and air components with their associated Headquarters, and logistics and support functions. It will not involve standing forces but will be available at notice for bilateral, NATO, European Union, United Nations or other operations. We will begin with combined air and land exercises during 2011 and will develop the concept before the next UK-France Summit and progress towards full capability in subsequent years. The Force will stimulate greater interoperability and coherence in military doctrine, training and equipment requirements.[2]".

This is from that joint self- defence declaration of 2010 and as we are all including Germany of course part of NATO, then the current standing strength of the German military is irrelevant to your argument . What is our " bayonet strength " currently and do armies still use bayonets ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45566205

"Don't make unacceptable demands" says May. "Oh, and by the way, we want to wash our hands of all the responsibilities that come with membership of the EU whilst retaining all the benefits"

[Filo]

"In an interview with the Daily Express, Mrs May said that going back on the 2016 vote to leave the EU would "destroy trust in politicians".


I think that has already been destroyed

[Sprotyrover]

Get Lynn Wigley and I have something in common! We are both puzzled as to how an Army of 180,000 can only have 60,000 front line troops.
I have done some digging and the German army. Is on its Arse!
2 Armoured divisions and an Airbourne division allegedly.
Well according to the SPIEGEL Magazine and the Economist, the German army has only 95 Leo 2 Tanks in operational order out of 244, the rest have been stripped for parts. That not enough for a Division. Only 7 out of 67 Ch 53 Transport Helicopters operational,12 out of 50 Tiger Helicopters operational,39 out of 128 Typhoon Fighters operational,all of its Tornados grounded due to Bolts flying off and no lights in Cockpit. Germany's entire submarine fleet of 6 Subs Not Sea worthy!
A German Officer also managed to claim Benefits and live a double life.
In 2014 A German Battalion went to Norway on excercise, none of their Boxer AFVs had any guns, the German soldiers painted wooden broom handles black and stuck em on to make it look like the vehicles had weapons.
It's a far cry from 1990 when the Bundewher was half a Million strong and had 5,000 AFVs.
It' makes you wonder what sort of a state the French  and others are In?
If Vladimir turned his 300k troops West they would be in Rotterdam in 5 days!
Oh and Hoola I doubt the German army has any bayonets to put onto its Broom handles.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Get Lynn Wigley and I have something in common! We are both puzzled as to how an Army of 180,000 can only have 60,000 front line troops.
I have done some digging and the German army. Is on its Arse!
2 Armoured divisions and an Airbourne division allegedly.
Well according to the SPIEGEL Magazine and the Economist, the German army has only 95 Leo 2 Tanks in operational order out of 244, the rest have been stripped for parts. That not enough for a Division. Only 7 out of 67 Ch 53 Transport Helicopters operational,12 out of 50 Tiger Helicopters operational,39 out of 128 Typhoon Fighters operational,all of its Tornados grounded due to Bolts flying off and no lights in Cockpit. Germany's entire submarine fleet of 6 Subs Not Sea worthy!
A German Officer also managed to claim Benefits and live a double life.
In 2014 A German Battalion went to Norway on excercise, none of their Boxer AFVs had any guns, the German soldiers painted wooden broom handles black and stuck em on to make it look like the vehicles had weapons.
It's a far cry from 1990 when the Bundewher was half a Million strong and had 5,000 AFVs.
It' makes you wonder what sort of a state the French  and others are In?
If Vladimir turned his 300k troops West they would be in Rotterdam in 5 days!
Oh and Hoola I doubt the German army has any bayonets to put onto its Broom handles.

I didn't ask about front line, I asked for clarification on the total number of German soldiers, both on active service and not on active service.

[Sprotyrover]

61,500 what we would call Proper soldiers,41,000 Medical service staff, the rest make up the unique to Germany Joint service corps, Military uniform wearing civilians.
Now I just looked that up in 5 minutes why couldn't you?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Because you originally said 61,500 on active service, but I was getting mixed up. I thought 'active service' just meant the soldiers actually deployed and didn't count those not deployed so I thought that meant there were more soldiers than the number you stated. My mistake.

[Sprotyrover]

Because you originally said 61,500 on active service, but I was getting mixed up. I thought 'active service' just meant the soldiers actually deployed and didn't count those not deployed so I thought that meant there were more soldiers than the number you stated. My mistake.

I think we have both learned a lot about the  German Army in the last 24 hours and none of it is good news Glynn.

[RedJ]

Why does everything revert to a discussion about some fictional coming war with you?

[nightporter]

Who needs an army?  The next world war will not be fought in the trenches.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bang on.

If there is another major conflict, the deciding factor will be which side can most quickly shut down the other's satellites, telecoms and power grid.

[Bentley Bullet]

Thank God for that. I'd hate to be stuck in a trench with some of our lot for back up!

[The Red Baron]

Meanwhile, back to Brexit.

Wonderful statement of where we are going from May today.

We're either going to have her deal which will mean a lot of damage to the UK economy. Or we're going to have no deal, which will mean a huge amount of damage to the UK economy.

Good to see that we've got a clear choice now.

Since the Chequers Plan is by and large unacceptable to both the EU and a significant number of Tory backbenchers, and because "No Deal" will never get through Parliament, I think we are close to General Election territory.

[wilts rover]

Here's Liam Fox doing his best to help that scenario along by making sure May wont get a deal - with the EU & in parliament!

https://www.businessinsider.nl/liam-fox-trade-deal-scrap-european-union-food-standards-after-brexit-2018-9/?international=true&r=US

[Glyn_Wigley]

The problem is, though, that a General Election won't solve anything because either the government sticks to whatever deal Parliament has just rejected or they (and every other party) spout a Deal wish-list that means nothing until the EU agrees to it...in which case we are back to square one ie here.

If Parliament rejects the deal any incoming government, of whatever colour, are still going to have the millstone of Brexit round their necks instead of getting on with the job of running the country. As far as I can see, the only way of getting rid of that millstone is going back to the voters with a specific referendum which ends with either a deal being agreed, no deal default being accepted or Brexit reversed. Anything, just so long as the torture ends.

[The Red Baron]

I agree with you Glyn that a GE in itself won't solve anything. I think it is likely because I can hardly see how the Government can carry on, even under a different leader, if the deal they offer to Parliament (including No Deal) is rejected.

However, given that the most likely outcome of a GE would be a minority Labour Government rather a minority Conservative one, I think it makes the prospect of a second referendum much more likely.

[The Red Baron]

Well, Tusk has now said Chequers won't fly. I'm struggling to see how May can stay in the job much longer.

[Filo]

Well, Tusk has now said Chequers won't fly. I'm struggling to see how May can stay in the job much longer.

She stays in job while ever there is a chance Corbyn could be PM

[The Red Baron]

https://m.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2172510166407050/

[BillyStubbsTears]

I agree with you Glyn that a GE in itself won't solve anything. I think it is likely because I can hardly see how the Government can carry on, even under a different leader, if the deal they offer to Parliament (including No Deal) is rejected.

However, given that the most likely outcome of a GE would be a minority Labour Government rather a minority Conservative one, I think it makes the prospect of a second referendum much more likely.

Not sure a minority Lab Govt is the favourite. The Tories have been ahead in 12 of the last 16 and all the last 6 polls.

I know Corbyn impressed in the campaign last year, but I'd assume that is now baked in, as is the fact that May is utterly unable to interact with human beings. So I'd be surprised to see anything like the change we got last year. Unless the Tories fell apart over the Brexit deal and attacked each other.

[hoolahoop]

Who needs an army?  The next world war will not be fought in the trenches.

The only " standing army  " will be the hackers but Sproty still lives in the past .
I'm not quite sure he's even aware that the Berlin wall has come down yet !

[Sprotyrover]

Who needs an army?  The next world war will not be fought in the trenches.

The only " standing army  " will be the hackers but Sproty still lives in the past .
I'm not quite sure he's even aware that the Berlin wall has come down yet !

Sorry chum to win a war you need to occupy Territoy and for that you need Infantry.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Who needs an army?  The next world war will not be fought in the trenches.

The only " standing army  " will be the hackers but Sproty still lives in the past .
I'm not quite sure he's even aware that the Berlin wall has come down yet !

Sorry chum to win a war you need to occupy Territoy and for that you need Infantry.

That makes me wonder why Japan surrendered.

[RedJ]

Who needs an army?  The next world war will not be fought in the trenches.

The only " standing army  " will be the hackers but Sproty still lives in the past .
I'm not quite sure he's even aware that the Berlin wall has come down yet !

Sorry chum to win a war you need to occupy Territoy and for that you need Infantry.

Again... why are you constantly f**king banging on about a war that isn't even on the horizon?...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Who needs an army?  The next world war will not be fought in the trenches.

The only " standing army  " will be the hackers but Sproty still lives in the past .
I'm not quite sure he's even aware that the Berlin wall has come down yet !

Sorry chum to win a war you need to occupy Territoy and for that you need Infantry.

Err. 1918?