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IMO to many people would rather see BREXIT fail than the UK succeed.
Quote from: glosterred on November 24, 2017, 07:37:51 amIMO to many people would rather see BREXIT fail than the UK succeed.I don’t know who these “many people” are mate but I’m not one. In or out of Europe, I want to see us as a successful, welcoming, open, tolerant country. I have just never seen anything remotely suggesting that we will be that country outside Europe.
Brexiteers,What I don't get is why you are not in a rage about being misled?In any other walk of life, folk would be upset about the mis-selling, the £350m for the NHS claim. Not only are Gove and Johnson NOT in jail for fraud, and conspiracy to undermine the democratic process, but they are rewarded with seats in the Cabinet.Now if you had bought a consumer item on the basis of a false claim, you would expect your money back. Trading standards would step in and bring the wrong uns to book.It appears that voters have no recourse to political misinformation, so "fake news" is OK as long as it deals in the deceit of ideas.That can't be right, can it, Brexiteers?
Quote from: albie on November 24, 2017, 04:04:08 pmBrexiteers,What I don't get is why you are not in a rage about being misled?In any other walk of life, folk would be upset about the mis-selling, the £350m for the NHS claim. Not only are Gove and Johnson NOT in jail for fraud, and conspiracy to undermine the democratic process, but they are rewarded with seats in the Cabinet.Now if you had bought a consumer item on the basis of a false claim, you would expect your money back. Trading standards would step in and bring the wrong uns to book.It appears that voters have no recourse to political misinformation, so "fake news" is OK as long as it deals in the deceit of ideas.That can't be right, can it, Brexiteers?The impression I got at the time of the referendum is that they were happy to have lies spread because it got them the result they wanted and that everybody else should 'get over it'.
I wonder if the Leave voters realise just how little thought was given to the practical details of things like trade negotiations. The likes of Johnson and Gove are famously light on attention to detail. They were very good at patronisingly putting down anyone who pointed out that it took over a decade for Switzerland to reach a trade deal with the EU. They did what they always do - encouraged Leave supporters to not think too hard about it and just assume that all would be fine because...we’ll because we’re British and we are special. I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that I want one of those two Kitsons to become PM. They have created this disaster. They need to be made to own it and be associated with it forever.
Britex everyone's an expert. But no one knows anything.
Long term no
What would it take for brexiters to accept that they were mugged used and abused for political gain by a small number of people that want to take Britain back in time. Still waiting for any good news about brexit, don't be shy, don't hold back.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/25/vote-leave-dominic-cummings-online-guru-mystery-letter-dark-ads
I voted leave because I saw the EU becoming a far more federal body which wasn't what I wanted. I also resented the threats from politicians and Obama getting involved. It wasn't a matter of being 100% convinced but on balance leave just shaded it. I was on holiday so as usual had a postal vote. The best argument for staying came from my eldest grandson which says a lot for the remain campaign although they were convinced that they would win easily until the last week or so. I expect the politicians/experts to get us the best deal possible to take us forward, that's maybe too much to ask now. I think that auckley has hit the nail on the head we need to act like adults with the EU and get the best deal for both sides.
Its a shit state of affairs but the best option is the one being taken ; stall stall stall and hope the eu disassembles in the meantime or they offer what we they want