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Quote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 01:12:21 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on July 30, 2018, 12:30:29 pmQuote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 12:18:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2018, 10:52:29 pmThing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel. And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this threadYou did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations. However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us . This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiationAnd what did you do in the war that means the 27 EU nations owe you something, Filo?PS If it's all about bodycount, how much exactly do we and the rest of Europe owe Putin and the rest of Russia?
Quote from: hoolahoop on July 30, 2018, 12:30:29 pmQuote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 12:18:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2018, 10:52:29 pmThing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel. And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this threadYou did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations. However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us . This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiation
Quote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 12:18:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2018, 10:52:29 pmThing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel. And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this threadYou did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations. However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us .
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2018, 10:52:29 pmThing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel. And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread
Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 30, 2018, 04:21:06 pmQuote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 01:12:21 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on July 30, 2018, 12:30:29 pmQuote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 12:18:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2018, 10:52:29 pmThing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel. And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this threadYou did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations. However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us . This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiationAnd what did you do in the war that means the 27 EU nations owe you something, Filo?PS If it's all about bodycount, how much exactly do we and the rest of Europe owe Putin and the rest of Russia?Did I say I did anything in the war?Stupid comment!
Well if 48% of hardcore Tories think Corbyn will be the next PM then you can oly suppose it can only be the embittered Blairites running him down again for the polls, quelle suprise.https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nearly-half-of-tory-members-think-jeremy-corbyn-will-become-prime-minister-amid-anger-over-mays-brexit-plans-steve-baker-no-deal-conservativehome_uk_5b5f0781e4b0fd5c73d16f28?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage
Quote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 10:15:51 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 30, 2018, 04:21:06 pmQuote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 01:12:21 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on July 30, 2018, 12:30:29 pmQuote from: Filo on July 30, 2018, 12:18:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2018, 10:52:29 pmThing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up. To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat. And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”Etc. Etc. Etc. Round and round the f**king hamster wheel. And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this threadYou did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations. However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us . This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiationAnd what did you do in the war that means the 27 EU nations owe you something, Filo?PS If it's all about bodycount, how much exactly do we and the rest of Europe owe Putin and the rest of Russia?Did I say I did anything in the war?Stupid comment!Bloody 'ell, and you think dragging a war that finished nearly 75 years ago into the negotiations isn't a stupid comment!
don't see how the tories can have a 2nd referendum they will lose power immediately
Rightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donorsThis could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.M-mmm-southern fried chlorine chicken, would you like some hormones with that?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/rightwing-thinktank-ministerial-access-potential-us-donors-insitute-of-economic-affairs-brexit
Quote from: SydneyRover on July 30, 2018, 02:59:24 amRightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donorsThis could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.M-mmm-southern fried chlorine chicken, would you like some hormones with that?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/rightwing-thinktank-ministerial-access-potential-us-donors-insitute-of-economic-affairs-brexitI read it earlier - it's scary what we have signed up for . In addition Jeremy Hunt has gone down like a lead balloon in China ; which " wants to strengthen its ties with the EU to counteract the trade war with the USA, "...........we are so last season dear it appears. So no hanging our hat on them.Seems we are stuck with a big :-McChlorine meal with cheese and fries and a coke............is that one line or two sir ?Only one please.....ok have a nice day sir
Quote from: hoolahoop on July 31, 2018, 12:57:35 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on July 30, 2018, 02:59:24 amRightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donorsThis could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.M-mmm-southern fried chlorine chicken, would you like some hormones with that?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/rightwing-thinktank-ministerial-access-potential-us-donors-insitute-of-economic-affairs-brexitI read it earlier - it's scary what we have signed up for . In addition Jeremy Hunt has gone down like a lead balloon in China ; which " wants to strengthen its ties with the EU to counteract the trade war with the USA, "...........we are so last season dear it appears. So no hanging our hat on them.Seems we are stuck with a big :-McChlorine meal with cheese and fries and a coke............is that one line or two sir ?Only one please.....ok have a nice day sir hunt made a mistake about his wife but why has he gone down like a balloon? Only ask as I’ve not seen anything about it?
Quote from: bpoolrover on August 01, 2018, 02:41:57 amQuote from: hoolahoop on July 31, 2018, 12:57:35 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on July 30, 2018, 02:59:24 amRightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donorsThis could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.M-mmm-southern fried chlorine chicken, would you like some hormones with that?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/rightwing-thinktank-ministerial-access-potential-us-donors-insitute-of-economic-affairs-brexitI read it earlier - it's scary what we have signed up for . In addition Jeremy Hunt has gone down like a lead balloon in China ; which " wants to strengthen its ties with the EU to counteract the trade war with the USA, "...........we are so last season dear it appears. So no hanging our hat on them.Seems we are stuck with a big :-McChlorine meal with cheese and fries and a coke............is that one line or two sir ?Only one please.....ok have a nice day sir hunt made a mistake about his wife but why has he gone down like a balloon? Only ask as I’ve not seen anything about it?It's great that you have asked bpool.Hunt has got a Chinese wife - some how he mentioned that he had a " Japanese " wife . The Japanese of course are the sworn enemies of the Chinese following the reign of terror unleashed on the Chinese by the Japanese soldiers in WW2 - they raped and pillaged wherever and whenever they wanted .( The siege of Nanking stands out in particular )Incidentally they did exactly the same to the peoples on the Korean Peninsula. To be fair I'm not sure that once he had acknowledged his mistake that he would have been forgiven. However he also raised the question of the way the people of Hong Kong were being denied their democratic rights , which both countries agreed on handover to maintain. The Chinese Foreign Minister more or less said mind your own business " Hong Kong is Chinese now ". In fairness, as I mentioned above, China is persuing the EU somewhat for Trade Agreements to counter the potential losses in the USA because of Trump's " America First " policy. Because Trump has applied higher tariffs on goods some Chinese products will be too dear now for the USA market. This of course makes it more difficult for us China is persuing the EU, the EU has signed an agreement with Japan , meaning we may well be left with just 3 large import / export markets : the USA, Brazil and of course India. Brazil and India are already in a loose arrangement with Russia and China ( BRICs)It's all very messy for us , irrespective of the size of our economy - it comes down to the size and strengths of our market. There's so many geo- physical forces at play here that currently we are a minnow swimming in a sea of sharks.
Quote from: hoolahoop on August 01, 2018, 06:16:44 amQuote from: bpoolrover on August 01, 2018, 02:41:57 amQuote from: hoolahoop on July 31, 2018, 12:57:35 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on July 30, 2018, 02:59:24 amRightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donorsThis could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.M-mmm-southern fried chlorine chicken, would you like some hormones with that?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/rightwing-thinktank-ministerial-access-potential-us-donors-insitute-of-economic-affairs-brexitI read it earlier - it's scary what we have signed up for . In addition Jeremy Hunt has gone down like a lead balloon in China ; which " wants to strengthen its ties with the EU to counteract the trade war with the USA, "...........we are so last season dear it appears. So no hanging our hat on them.Seems we are stuck with a big :-McChlorine meal with cheese and fries and a coke............is that one line or two sir ?Only one please.....ok have a nice day sir hunt made a mistake about his wife but why has he gone down like a balloon? Only ask as I’ve not seen anything about it?It's great that you have asked bpool.Hunt has got a Chinese wife - some how he mentioned that he had a " Japanese " wife . The Japanese of course are the sworn enemies of the Chinese following the reign of terror unleashed on the Chinese by the Japanese soldiers in WW2 - they raped and pillaged wherever and whenever they wanted .( The siege of Nanking stands out in particular )Incidentally they did exactly the same to the peoples on the Korean Peninsula. To be fair I'm not sure that once he had acknowledged his mistake that he would have been forgiven. However he also raised the question of the way the people of Hong Kong were being denied their democratic rights , which both countries agreed on handover to maintain. The Chinese Foreign Minister more or less said mind your own business " Hong Kong is Chinese now ". In fairness, as I mentioned above, China is persuing the EU somewhat for Trade Agreements to counter the potential losses in the USA because of Trump's " America First " policy. Because Trump has applied higher tariffs on goods some Chinese products will be too dear now for the USA market. This of course makes it more difficult for us China is persuing the EU, the EU has signed an agreement with Japan , meaning we may well be left with just 3 large import / export markets : the USA, Brazil and of course India. Brazil and India are already in a loose arrangement with Russia and China ( BRICs)It's all very messy for us , irrespective of the size of our economy - it comes down to the size and strengths of our market. There's so many geo- physical forces at play here that currently we are a minnow swimming in a sea of sharks.So it's OK for you to mention WW2?
I wonder what sort of deal Filo thinks we ought to get from Japan seeing as we thrashed them 75 years ago?
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on August 01, 2018, 08:09:43 pmI wonder what sort of deal Filo thinks we ought to get from Japan seeing as we thrashed them 75 years ago?Since when was Japan in the EU?