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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 19, 2018, 01:43:18 pmBoomstick. The whole issue really is very, very simple. Hold your nose for a moment and go through these points 1 by 1 and tell me which ones you think are unreasonable. This is the EU's stance on the Irish border issue. It's been their stance for more than 2 years. Tell me which bits you think are unfair. The EU says this to us:1) You want a trade deal with us that gives you benefits after you leave. Great. Let's talk. But be aware that we have a big red line. We're not going to agree to a deal that gives YOU benefits but hurts one of US. Fair?2) If a deal results in a worse border situation between RoI and NI, that will hurt RoI. That's not fair. They didn't vote for Brexit. You did. So we'll not bend over to help you if you don't make sure that RoI doesn't get hurt. Fair?3) There's a dead easy way to stop the border being an issue. You can stay inside the CU and SM. Fair?4) Opinion poll after opinion poll tells us that solution is supported by a big majority in the UK. We KNOW it's not supported by the Tory party, but hey, that's your party's problem. Fair?5) If you're not prepared to accept that solution then it is your responsibility to tell us what alternative ideas you have. Fair?6) We've had two years now and you've come up with nothing better than shouting "Technology!" "Switzerland!" We need a bit more than that. Fair?7) Tell you what. We know you're struggling here so here's a deal. Why don't we just let you stay in the CU and park the border question until you sort out what you want to do? Fair?Go on BS. Tell me what bit of that gets your goat. EDIT:I forgot the final point. 8) What's that you say Mrs May? Your swivel-eyed rabid right wing won't accept 7? Oh dear! This is a mess then isn't it?And what's that Mrs May? Because of this message, YOU want US to compromise further. I'm not sure you've quite got the hang of this negotiation thing Mrs May! YOU want US to take a big hit to get YOU out of a political mess of your own making? I think you know the answer to that one Mrs May. So. Looks like you've only got two choices then. Go for the No Deal Brexit that you've been talking about for the past 2 years and lose any chance of us giving you any sort of deal in future. Or face down the Johnsons and Rees-Moggs and Redwoods and Foxes that got you into this f**king mess and do what is right for your country. Didn't say anything got my goat old lad. Just said what I think will happen.
Boomstick. The whole issue really is very, very simple. Hold your nose for a moment and go through these points 1 by 1 and tell me which ones you think are unreasonable. This is the EU's stance on the Irish border issue. It's been their stance for more than 2 years. Tell me which bits you think are unfair. The EU says this to us:1) You want a trade deal with us that gives you benefits after you leave. Great. Let's talk. But be aware that we have a big red line. We're not going to agree to a deal that gives YOU benefits but hurts one of US. Fair?2) If a deal results in a worse border situation between RoI and NI, that will hurt RoI. That's not fair. They didn't vote for Brexit. You did. So we'll not bend over to help you if you don't make sure that RoI doesn't get hurt. Fair?3) There's a dead easy way to stop the border being an issue. You can stay inside the CU and SM. Fair?4) Opinion poll after opinion poll tells us that solution is supported by a big majority in the UK. We KNOW it's not supported by the Tory party, but hey, that's your party's problem. Fair?5) If you're not prepared to accept that solution then it is your responsibility to tell us what alternative ideas you have. Fair?6) We've had two years now and you've come up with nothing better than shouting "Technology!" "Switzerland!" We need a bit more than that. Fair?7) Tell you what. We know you're struggling here so here's a deal. Why don't we just let you stay in the CU and park the border question until you sort out what you want to do? Fair?Go on BS. Tell me what bit of that gets your goat. EDIT:I forgot the final point. 8) What's that you say Mrs May? Your swivel-eyed rabid right wing won't accept 7? Oh dear! This is a mess then isn't it?And what's that Mrs May? Because of this message, YOU want US to compromise further. I'm not sure you've quite got the hang of this negotiation thing Mrs May! YOU want US to take a big hit to get YOU out of a political mess of your own making? I think you know the answer to that one Mrs May. So. Looks like you've only got two choices then. Go for the No Deal Brexit that you've been talking about for the past 2 years and lose any chance of us giving you any sort of deal in future. Or face down the Johnsons and Rees-Moggs and Redwoods and Foxes that got you into this f**king mess and do what is right for your country.
Quote from: Boomstick on October 20, 2018, 08:56:56 amQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 19, 2018, 01:43:18 pmBoomstick. The whole issue really is very, very simple. Hold your nose for a moment and go through these points 1 by 1 and tell me which ones you think are unreasonable. This is the EU's stance on the Irish border issue. It's been their stance for more than 2 years. Tell me which bits you think are unfair. The EU says this to us:1) You want a trade deal with us that gives you benefits after you leave. Great. Let's talk. But be aware that we have a big red line. We're not going to agree to a deal that gives YOU benefits but hurts one of US. Fair?2) If a deal results in a worse border situation between RoI and NI, that will hurt RoI. That's not fair. They didn't vote for Brexit. You did. So we'll not bend over to help you if you don't make sure that RoI doesn't get hurt. Fair?3) There's a dead easy way to stop the border being an issue. You can stay inside the CU and SM. Fair?4) Opinion poll after opinion poll tells us that solution is supported by a big majority in the UK. We KNOW it's not supported by the Tory party, but hey, that's your party's problem. Fair?5) If you're not prepared to accept that solution then it is your responsibility to tell us what alternative ideas you have. Fair?6) We've had two years now and you've come up with nothing better than shouting "Technology!" "Switzerland!" We need a bit more than that. Fair?7) Tell you what. We know you're struggling here so here's a deal. Why don't we just let you stay in the CU and park the border question until you sort out what you want to do? Fair?Go on BS. Tell me what bit of that gets your goat. EDIT:I forgot the final point. 8) What's that you say Mrs May? Your swivel-eyed rabid right wing won't accept 7? Oh dear! This is a mess then isn't it?And what's that Mrs May? Because of this message, YOU want US to compromise further. I'm not sure you've quite got the hang of this negotiation thing Mrs May! YOU want US to take a big hit to get YOU out of a political mess of your own making? I think you know the answer to that one Mrs May. So. Looks like you've only got two choices then. Go for the No Deal Brexit that you've been talking about for the past 2 years and lose any chance of us giving you any sort of deal in future. Or face down the Johnsons and Rees-Moggs and Redwoods and Foxes that got you into this f**king mess and do what is right for your country. Didn't say anything got my goat old lad. Just said what I think will happen. My mistake. So when you said this..."The EU ARE using it as a bargaining chip. Understandably so. Afterall, they need to be seen to be playing hardball for 3 reasons. 1. They need to be perceived as a stronger than an individual country. (Also deterring any other country wanting out)2. It's us that chose to leave, so there making us sweat."...you didn't say it?
https://youtu.be/JvDAW5SjdaEIf you have a spare hour this is a very interesting viewpoint on N.Ireland and it's significance in the current talks. Well worth watching.
David Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 20, 2018, 08:52:34 pmDavid Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?So surely you can imagine how annoying it is for those who voted to to leave the EU to hear that their vote meant nothing and that we should have further referendums until the ‘right’ vote is delivere?
Quote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:05:46 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 20, 2018, 08:52:34 pmDavid Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?So surely you can imagine how annoying it is for those who voted to to leave the EU to hear that their vote meant nothing and that we should have further referendums until the ‘right’ vote is delivere? Farage said he would agitate for another vote if he lost too.
Quote from: RedJ on October 20, 2018, 10:18:35 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:05:46 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 20, 2018, 08:52:34 pmDavid Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?So surely you can imagine how annoying it is for those who voted to to leave the EU to hear that their vote meant nothing and that we should have further referendums until the ‘right’ vote is delivere? Farage said he would agitate for another vote if he lost too.Doesn’t really answer the point I’ve raised though does it?
Quote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:21:19 pmQuote from: RedJ on October 20, 2018, 10:18:35 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:05:46 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 20, 2018, 08:52:34 pmDavid Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?So surely you can imagine how annoying it is for those who voted to to leave the EU to hear that their vote meant nothing and that we should have further referendums until the ‘right’ vote is delivere? Farage said he would agitate for another vote if he lost too.Doesn’t really answer the point I’ve raised though does it? But you're making out it's only one side that are supposedly wanting to get the 'right' result.And completely ignoring the fact that illegally harvested data was used to swing the vote. And that a foreign power has subverted our democracy. Does that not bother you at all?
Quote from: RedJ on October 20, 2018, 10:24:58 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:21:19 pmQuote from: RedJ on October 20, 2018, 10:18:35 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:05:46 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 20, 2018, 08:52:34 pmDavid Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?So surely you can imagine how annoying it is for those who voted to to leave the EU to hear that their vote meant nothing and that we should have further referendums until the ‘right’ vote is delivere? Farage said he would agitate for another vote if he lost too.Doesn’t really answer the point I’ve raised though does it? But you're making out it's only one side that are supposedly wanting to get the 'right' result.And completely ignoring the fact that illegally harvested data was used to swing the vote. And that a foreign power has subverted our democracy. Does that not bother you at all?Eh? What are you talking about? Il ask it again. Do you appreciate how annoying it is for those who voted to leave that their opinion is deemed to be invalid? It’s not a hard question.
Quote from: hoolahoop on October 20, 2018, 10:22:26 amhttps://youtu.be/JvDAW5SjdaEIf you have a spare hour this is a very interesting viewpoint on N.Ireland and it's significance in the current talks. Well worth watching. Well worth watching indeed, from both the Remain and Leave sides. Thanks for posting Hoola.
Quote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:43:39 pmQuote from: RedJ on October 20, 2018, 10:24:58 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:21:19 pmQuote from: RedJ on October 20, 2018, 10:18:35 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on October 20, 2018, 10:05:46 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 20, 2018, 08:52:34 pmDavid Davies said that a democracy in which people aren't able to re-visit and change previous decisions is not a democracy. But what's the f**king point of raising that, since no other inconvenient facts seem to penetrate the craniums of the Brexit zealots. Personally, as a patriot, I'm f**king fuming that Russian money was poured into the Leave campaign through a couple of spivs. But the Leavers, many of whom seem to think they are greater patriots than the Remainers don't seem to give a shite about that. Odd, that, isn't it?So surely you can imagine how annoying it is for those who voted to to leave the EU to hear that their vote meant nothing and that we should have further referendums until the ‘right’ vote is delivere? Farage said he would agitate for another vote if he lost too.Doesn’t really answer the point I’ve raised though does it? But you're making out it's only one side that are supposedly wanting to get the 'right' result.And completely ignoring the fact that illegally harvested data was used to swing the vote. And that a foreign power has subverted our democracy. Does that not bother you at all?Eh? What are you talking about? Il ask it again. Do you appreciate how annoying it is for those who voted to leave that their opinion is deemed to be invalid? It’s not a hard question. It might be annoying, yes. But not half as annoying as realising I've been sold a crock of shit. Or as annoying as realising an actual hostile foreign country had been interfering.
Wonder if selby thinks Mandeville would do a better job...
You missed out the possibility of a GE bringing about a goverment who throws the decision back to the people again to bypass the Westminster blockage - which I think is the only way round the problem. Corbyn has moved towards that a bit by saying he'd do it if the Labour membership wanted it.