Brexit deal

[Axholme Lion]

Boomstick.

Ok. So I assume that you WOULD be prepared to live naked in a cave and eat grass in order to take back control. Glad we've got that sorted. That puts you into a tiny, fanatical minority.

Me?
No, I don't want us to accept the Euro. Or have an EU army. Neither of those things are going to be imposed on us, so they are hypothetical, but I e answered them anyway.


I'm happy to cede a certain amount of legislative control because of the benefits we get.
Immigration. We need immigration. My wife is an immigrant's daughter. My mother is an immigrant's granddaughter. I assume you have a similar background. I'm not sure what you mean by "millions and millions" so that's a bit of a pointless question. 1? Yes. 100? No. And we can currently control levels if we choose to.

NHS and services? That's a UK Govt decision. It's well established that immigration makes us wealthier. If this Govt chooses not to use that wealth to properly fund services, that's our problem, not one caused by the EU.

There you go. That's how you answer questions. Shame you won't join in but there you go.

How many immigrants is enough? In fact how many people is enough regardless of where they are from? You only have to drive through Auckley for example to see how the area has been ruined by over development. I don't want to see houses, shops and roads every time I look out of the window. Who wants to live in a concrete jungle where you can't get to see a doctor because the list is a mile long, or a journey into town takes an hour because of the volume of traffic? Over population is the number one problem facing the world today, regardless of what colour they are or where they come from.

[The Red Baron]

So May is going to ask for an extension to 30th June. What's the betting that the EU will say no to that but offer a longer extension, with the possibility of leaving earlier if we agree a deal?

Those EU Elections are going to be fun!

[scawsby steve]

I bet the other 5 think he's a real asset!

We all know who the leader is though BB; the one whose every word they hang on to.

6,063,705 signatures

I wonder how many of the people on here that signed that pathetic petition, also signed the petition to get the drugs needed to treat people suffering with cystic fibrosis; not many I'll bet.

Some people need to get their priorities right.

[idler]

Steve, if we are poore as a country prescribed drugs will be hit.

[Boomstick]

Boomstick.

Ok. So I assume that you WOULD be prepared to live naked in a cave and eat grass in order to take back control. Glad we've got that sorted. That puts you into a tiny, fanatical minority.

Me?
No, I don't want us to accept the Euro. Or have an EU army. Neither of those things are going to be imposed on us, so they are hypothetical, but I e answered them anyway.


I'm happy to cede a certain amount of legislative control because of the benefits we get.
Immigration. We need immigration. My wife is an immigrant's daughter. My mother is an immigrant's granddaughter. I assume you have a similar background. I'm not sure what you mean by "millions and millions" so that's a bit of a pointless question. 1? Yes. 100? No. And we can currently control levels if we choose to.

NHS and services? That's a UK Govt decision. It's well established that immigration makes us wealthier. If this Govt chooses not to use that wealth to properly fund services, that's our problem, not one caused by the EU.

There you go. That's how you answer questions. Shame you won't join in but there you go.

Haha, my god what are you blithering on about yet again.
How does accepting what your so calldled experts have predicted, put me in a fanatical minority.
Your very out of touch if you think that, I suggest you put down your socialist workers rag, and engage in the real world.

How much legislative control are you willing to cede? What benefits will it bring.
The euro WILL eventually be forced on us and there WILL be an EU army, the EU has expressed a big desire for both.
You don't want them, you say. But if you want us to stay in the EU, you better accept this.

The EU DOES impose immigration on us, do how does our limited infrastructure cope? You claim immigration makes us wealthier, is that to the tune of tens of billions that will be needed to fund extra police, roads, the NHS, schools, councils, housing.
Explain how the government funds this without raising taxes to eye watering amounts, and butting the brunt of the impact on middle England.

Your answers fell well short of any semblance of thought or reason.

YOU are the fanatic, who keeps contradicting yourself with waffle piffle and flannel. I however have given straight answers to loaded, long winded questions.

Try answering my questions again, but put some thought into it

Oh and you still haven't answered my question on how you resolve the issue of ghettos like page Hall forming, and how it has devestated local residents lives

[scawsby steve]

Steve, if we are poore as a country prescribed drugs will be hit.

If you believe the doom and gloom merchants on here Idler, but I don't. Come on mate, you're a similar age to me. When we were kids, we were on rations, but we got by.

This country went through 2 World Wars, and still managed to put food on the table. Does anybody honestly think we're all going to starve because of a bunch of w*nkers each side of the Channel?

[The Red Baron]

The talks with Labour have broken down. Basically May offered nothing. What a pity the Tories didn't kick her out after her disastrous performance in 2017. If ever a PM with vision was needed it's now.

[Bentley Bullet]

Steve, if we are poore as a country prescribed drugs will be hit.

If you believe the doom and gloom merchants on here Idler, but I don't. Come on mate, you're a similar age to me. When we were kids, we were on rations, but we got by.

This country went through 2 World Wars, and still managed to put food on the table. Does anybody honestly think we're all going to starve because of a bunch of w*nkers each side of the Channel?

Thing is, we had a united 'British Bulldog' attitude back then. Nowadays, we have a 'Britain Surrendering Together' element among us.

If we were all united in BB virtues instead of the BST element we'd have frightened the shit out of the EU.

[albie]

Looking like it was just a last ditch attempt to smear blame on Corbyn and Labour for the mega clusterf**k than May has supervised.

The most telling aspect is the lack of high profile resignations from Cabinet.

As it is well known that there is complete disagreement within Cabinet about the policy and the implementation of the Maybot, the failure to declare seems to indicate an agreement to snare Labour and deflect blame from the guilty and incompetent.

Roll on the next farrago!

[The Red Baron]

Whether you're a Remainer or Leaver, I hope none of you will ever again vote for any member of this appalling Parliament. They are the most venal, corrupt bunch of politicians we have ever had to suffer. I'm not being partisan - for me the ERG are as bad as the likes of Soubry and Grieve who stood for election on a pledge to honour the referendum results, and have then spent every waking hour trying to overturn it.

Personally I favour something along the lines of Common Market 2.0. I'm relaxed about being in the Single Market and a Customs Union. So long as we're out of the  "political" EU we can't be forced into the Euro or an EU Army. So I'm a Soft Brexit man, but I think the behaviour of MPs, with their posturing and grandstanding has been appalling.

The crowning thing for me was that the appalling Cooper Bill was passed by the vote of an MP who has just been released from prison for Perverting the course of justice, and is wearing an electronic tag. This is a Parliament of crooks. I'd love to put them all behind bars.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS
I'm constantly bemused by this belief of Leave supporters that the economic problems won't be bad when we leave.

Serious question. This is not trying to make a point, it's me trying to understand the thinking going on here.

What evidence this idea that the economics won't be bad based on? Every major economist, apart from the one who freely admits that his ideas would lead to the end of industry in the North (and whose policies DID cripple industry in the North when Thatcher implemented them) says the negative effects are going to be very real and very serious. Why do you think they won't be?

Or do you accept that we're going to have a less economically successful future, but that's ok with you?

In which case, are you saying that because you experienced rationing, your happy for your great grandkids to have a poorer future than they should have?

[The Red Baron]

The economics are the reason I think we should go for Common Market 2.0. It's a neat compromise. Unfortunately May ruled it out and now everyone has become entrenched.

I think it's a great pity that the Remain side didn't get behind this rather than spending three years trying to overturn the Referendum result. We get the economic benefits, solve the Irish Border problem and avoid the closer political union which the EU will inevitably demand. I think a lot of the eastern European countries would have joined us and we could have been seen as a leader.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

1) Nearly half the MPs voted for the sort of arrangement you're saying you want. Plus, presumably you accept that some have different opinions to you. Isn't it a bit OTT to scream that they are all venal and corrupt?

2) it's deeply depressing that you, one of the most intelligent people in here, are repeating this nonsense about us being forced into the Euro or a European army. If either of those things were forced on us, I too would want us to leave. But they are not, and there is no prospect of them being. Basing opinion of the EU now on a hypothetical and unrealistic future EU is irrational, and God knows we need more rationality these days.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Remaining in the CU and very close alignment with the SM has been Labour party policy for 2 years. The door was open at any point in that time for May to reach out. Complaining about both sides in Parliament doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[The Red Baron]

TRB

Remaining in the CU and very close alignment with the SM has been Labour party policy for 2 years. The door was open at any point in that time for May to reach out. Complaining about both sides in Parliament doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Labour does not want to remain in the Single Market, because the State Aid rules will prevent wholesale renationalisation. It wants close alignment on the bits it likes, eg workers' rights and the environment. For me, staying in the Single Market, not just for goods, is the most important thing. I'd be happy to leave a Customs Union if it wasn't for the Irish Border.

[The Red Baron]

TRB

1) Nearly half the MPs voted for the sort of arrangement you're saying you want. Plus, presumably you accept that some have different opinions to you. Isn't it a bit OTT to scream that they are all venal and corrupt?

2) it's deeply depressing that you, one of the most intelligent people in here, are repeating this nonsense about us being forced into the Euro or a European army. If either of those things were forced on us, I too would want us to leave. But they are not, and there is no prospect of them being. Basing opinion of the EU now on a hypothetical and unrealistic future EU is irrational, and God knows we need more rationality these days.

They rejected CM2.0 when Boles proposed it, because so many of them are fixated on another referendum. They would rather play games than accept anything that isn't 100% what they want. They are a disgrace.

PS. There will be an EU Army within five years.   

https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1062433746123739136?lang=en

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

1) 185 Labour MPs voted for CM2.0. 25 voted against.
33 Tory MPs voted for CM2.0. 228 voted against.
Draw your own conclusions on where you political home is Comrade.

2) Barring Trump doing something stupid with NATO, there will no EU army that is anything more than a token gesture in my lifetime. Equally, the UK could never and would never be forced into the Euro.

As I said, if events proved me wrong on either of those points, I would want to leave the EU. But choosing to leave because they might happen just seems daft to me.

[The Red Baron]

I'm not blaming Labour particularly. The Tories form the Government and they are responsible for the mess we are in. But what about TIG/ Change UK / Funny Tinge? They all stood on manifestos claiming to respect the result. They voted against CM2.0 because they wanted a second referendum at all costs. The SNP also did so, because they want to establish the principle that you hold referendums until you get the result you want.

For the record, comrade, I won't be voting Tory in the next GE or in the Euro Elections, if they happen. I won't be voting Labour, Lib Dem, Funny Tinge or UKIP (now a fully owned subsidiary of Tommy Robinson plc) either. I'll be voting for a party which is economically and socially liberal and wants to deliver Brexit. Anyone know of one?

[SydneyRover]

BST: ''I'm constantly bemused by this belief of Leave supporters that the economic problems won't be bad when we leave"

Most of the rest of the world are bemused by this too.

As for the thorny question about immigration, any here that are not related to the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Danes, or Romans please stand up.

BB as for our war-time bulldog spirit if it wasn't for the polish pilots we may not have won the battle of Britain.

 6,066,238 signatures

[albie]

On the issue of the economic impact, the Resolution Foundation produced a summary in February which assesses the effects since Ref1;
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/counting-the-cost/

Click through to the pdf if you want the detail.

Now people are entitled to disagree, but it would be helpful to explain why you think this to be incorrect if that is your conclusion.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB
God knows I've no axe to grind for the SNP but they voted FOR CM2.0

[SydneyRover]

Sydney. I fully understand your policy of posting selected links in your attempt to convince others that they are wrong, but I can guarantee as a fact, not just an opinion that it is you that's wrong this time. I didn't vote to leave, I voted to remain. The fact that I believe in democracy and accept a democratic vote, whereas you obviously don't, is the main gist of why I think your opinions are fundamentally flawed.

Did you see Question Time tonight?

No I missed QT. I understand that you voted to stay but everyone understands that the leave vote was a narrow victory in a fairly low turn-out (no compulsory voting = low turn-out)

The main point of contention of those that voted to remain in Europe, apart from the majority of experts in many fields telling us we would be better off in, and the huge positive for all that there has been no war within the EU and it's unlikely that an outside country would want to take that option because we consist of 28 United countries is that ........ (deep breath) ................. there has been a concerted effort to poison the well, to stir up trouble within the UK to get people to vote leave, This is an undeniable fact and most reasonable people would/could see that it played a large part in getting the No vote up.

Do you agree with this or not?

If you do agree then the next step logical would be to support those that want the country to have a legitimate vote where everyone fully understands what they are voting for and what is at stake.

If you don't agree it would be good for you to explain to me and the forum, (not that you have to of course as I stated in an earlier post most leavers faced with direct questions ignore them or change the subject) in common sense terms why not. This is an open question to anyone on the forum leave or not.

PS: I put up posts relevant to the subject in hand mostly on topic from credible sources and yes helpful in supporting my arguments. I don't really have time to read partisan articles from sources that have a history of being bias, inaccurate, just plain wrong or have engaged in illegal activities. Why would anyone want to read them anyway?

BB, just in case you missed it I replied to your post yesterday.

[bpoolrover]

Whether you're a Remainer or Leaver, I hope none of you will ever again vote for any member of this appalling Parliament. They are the most venal, corrupt bunch of politicians we have ever had to suffer. I'm not being partisan - for me the ERG are as bad as the likes of Soubry and Grieve who stood for election on a pledge to honour the referendum results, and have then spent every waking hour trying to overturn it.

Personally I favour something along the lines of Common Market 2.0. I'm relaxed about being in the Single Market and a Customs Union. So long as we're out of the  "political" EU we can't be forced into the Euro or an EU Army. So I'm a Soft Brexit man, but I think the behaviour of MPs, with their posturing and grandstanding has been appalling.

The crowning thing for me was that the appalling Cooper Bill was passed by the vote of an MP who has just been released from prison for Perverting the course of justice, and is wearing an electronic tag. This is a Parliament of crooks. I'd love to put them all behind bars.

I have a wide group of friends who vote tories and labour and the majority say they will vote if a second referendum but will never vote in a general election again, they might not keep to that but it seems many people feel the same

[SydneyRover]

Whether you're a Remainer or Leaver, I hope none of you will ever again vote for any member of this appalling Parliament. They are the most venal, corrupt bunch of politicians we have ever had to suffer. I'm not being partisan - for me the ERG are as bad as the likes of Soubry and Grieve who stood for election on a pledge to honour the referendum results, and have then spent every waking hour trying to overturn it.

Personally I favour something along the lines of Common Market 2.0. I'm relaxed about being in the Single Market and a Customs Union. So long as we're out of the  "political" EU we can't be forced into the Euro or an EU Army. So I'm a Soft Brexit man, but I think the behaviour of MPs, with their posturing and grandstanding has been appalling.

The crowning thing for me was that the appalling Cooper Bill was passed by the vote of an MP who has just been released from prison for Perverting the course of justice, and is wearing an electronic tag. This is a Parliament of crooks. I'd love to put them all behind bars.

I have a wide group of friends who vote tories and labour and the majority say they will vote if a second referendum but will never vote in a general election again, they might not keep to that but it seems many people feel the same

It's very sad when it comes to this point BP, but it's a bit cutting your nose off ......... but it is those that voted in a tribal fashion that got us to this point, rewarding the tories for splitting the country with a second term!!!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Whether you're a Remainer or Leaver, I hope none of you will ever again vote for any member of this appalling Parliament. They are the most venal, corrupt bunch of politicians we have ever had to suffer. I'm not being partisan - for me the ERG are as bad as the likes of Soubry and Grieve who stood for election on a pledge to honour the referendum results, and have then spent every waking hour trying to overturn it.

Personally I favour something along the lines of Common Market 2.0. I'm relaxed about being in the Single Market and a Customs Union. So long as we're out of the  "political" EU we can't be forced into the Euro or an EU Army. So I'm a Soft Brexit man, but I think the behaviour of MPs, with their posturing and grandstanding has been appalling.

The crowning thing for me was that the appalling Cooper Bill was passed by the vote of an MP who has just been released from prison for Perverting the course of justice, and is wearing an electronic tag. This is a Parliament of crooks. I'd love to put them all behind bars.

I have a wide group of friends who vote tories and labour and the majority say they will vote if a second referendum but will never vote in a general election again, they might not keep to that but it seems many people feel the same

Well, if they get a government after an election they don't vote in that f*cks them over they'll have no right to complain about it will they?

[SydneyRover]

''Prominent Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg suggested the UK should retaliate to any long extension by using its continued membership to block moves towards closer EU integration.

“If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible,” he said.

Nigel Evans, executive secretary of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, warned against taking part in European elections, telling the Daily Telegraph: “This is an existential threat to the Conservative Party. We have all seen the cut-up membership cards on social media''

“No-one will believe anything said in a manifesto we put out.”

Former minister Mark Francois told the BBC that Mrs May was “consorting with the enemy” by talking to Labour in the first place.

“Many Tory MPs are absolutely furious and a lot of them are writing to (1922 Committee chairman) Graham Brady saying she’s got to go.”


It's all about them and their party if we don't get what we want which is to be able to blame someone else we're not playing and will spoil it for everyone.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-06/mays-hopes-of-brexit-compromise-deal-with-labour-hit-the-rocks/

 6,066,477 signatures

[Glyn_Wigley]

''Prominent Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg suggested the UK should retaliate to any long extension by using its continued membership to block moves towards closer EU integration.

“If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible,” he said.

I thought one of the central planks of Leavers wanting us out of the EU was because we didn't have the power to block things we don't want...but now suddenly we do have the power to block things we don't want!

[The Red Baron]

TRB
God knows I've no axe to grind for the SNP but they voted FOR CM2.0

I stand corrected. Anyway, shit will get real next week when the French veto our request for another extension. At least it will concentrate minds. No Deal or Revoke.

[Filo]

TRB
God knows I've no axe to grind for the SNP but they voted FOR CM2.0

I stand corrected. Anyway, shit will get real next week when the French veto our request for another extension. At least it will concentrate minds. No Deal or Revoke.

It’s going to be no deal, the PM wanted to compromise without changing anything, not sure how that works? And the French have aleays hated us

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

TRB
God knows I've no axe to grind for the SNP but they voted FOR CM2.0

I stand corrected. Anyway, shit will get real next week when the French veto our request for another extension. At least it will concentrate minds. No Deal or Revoke.

Its unlikely but you never know.

So the talks came to nothing and may just keeps asking for extensions without changing anything.  When you think of it like that you can see the EU getting frustrated.