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Author Topic: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson  (Read 84176 times)

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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1530 on July 24, 2020, 08:02:30 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Hound.

Why do you do this?

It's very simple.

People are SUPPOSED to vote for their MP as a person.

Obviously, the overwhelming majority of people don't.

Did that really need spelling out?



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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1531 on July 24, 2020, 08:37:32 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
In the case of Corbyn and the last election, there was a very important context. Corbyn didn't control his Parliamentary party. The majority of Labour MPs did not support him and in fact had tried several times to boot him out.  So the point was that saying "I'm not going to vote for Corbyn because he believes in Wild Policy X" ignored the fact that Wild Policy X wouldn't be supported by Labour MPs. They wouldn't simply fall into line for whatever Corbyn wanted.

Johnson is qualitatively different. He and Cummings DO control the Parliamentary Tory Party. Do you remember that drunken outburst by Cummings last September to Tory MPs who didn't support Johnson over Brexit? "When are you f**kers going to realise we are going to purge you?"

Remember?

And then remember what Johnson and Cummings did? They purged them.

The Tory party no longer has any Parliamentary spine against Johnson/Cummings. So you ARE voting for the person as an MP in theory, but not in practice. In practice you are voting for someone who enacts whatever Johnson/Cummings tells them to do.

It's really not that hard to grasp is it?

drfchound

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1532 on July 24, 2020, 09:23:05 pm by drfchound »
Hound.

Why do you do this?

It's very simple.

People are SUPPOSED to vote for their MP as a person.

Obviously, the overwhelming majority of people don't.

Did that really need spelling out?






BST, why do I do what?
I posted a few times during the build up to the election that people wouldn’t vote Labour because they didn’t want JC as PM.
MANY of the Labour supporters on here were quick to jump on my case and inform me that voters don’t vote for the party leaders (potential PM) but that they vote for their local candidate.
You have just backed up the point I was making, that people do vote for the party that has the leader that they want to be PM.
Or, in the case of the last election, don’t vote for the party that has a leader that they don’t want to be PM.

It didn’t need spelling out thanks because I was saying that myself.
I hope you understand that now.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1533 on July 24, 2020, 10:28:15 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Read my follow up. For why that is a non-comparison.

drfchound

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1534 on July 24, 2020, 10:36:04 pm by drfchound »
I read your follow up and stand by what I said.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1535 on July 25, 2020, 12:00:16 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Hound.

If you've read my post and still stand by what you said, I assume you didn't understand my post.

My argument was, in simple terms:

1) People who said they weren't voting Labour because...Corbyn were fundamentally misunderstanding the dynamics in the Labour party because Corbyn was always going to be severely constrained by a dissenting Parliamentary Labour party. The key thing for the Corbyn-hating voters to decide was "If I vote Labour, will my MP support Corbyn unconditionally or constrain him." Not "I hate Corbyn therefore I'm not voting Labour."

2) People who said they were voting Tory because...Johnson, were much more correct, in that Johnson now effectively IS the Tory party, or more accurately, the Tory party is simply a vehicle for implementing what Cummings/Johnson want. The dissenters have been booted out, so now if you vote Tory you ARE voting to enable Johnson/Cummings

If only the world were as black and white as you seem to want it to be.

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1536 on July 25, 2020, 01:29:21 am by SydneyRover »
Sorry to butt in here bst with the obvious but that's what the paliamentary system is supposed to be all about that's why it was developed to stop dictators running the country.

Led by donkeys
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 01:33:18 am by SydneyRover »

drfchound

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1537 on July 25, 2020, 08:45:08 am by drfchound »
Hound.

If you've read my post and still stand by what you said, I assume you didn't understand my post.

My argument was, in simple terms:

1) People who said they weren't voting Labour because...Corbyn were fundamentally misunderstanding the dynamics in the Labour party because Corbyn was always going to be severely constrained by a dissenting Parliamentary Labour party. The key thing for the Corbyn-hating voters to decide was "If I vote Labour, will my MP support Corbyn unconditionally or constrain him." Not "I hate Corbyn therefore I'm not voting Labour."

2) People who said they were voting Tory because...Johnson, were much more correct, in that Johnson now effectively IS the Tory party, or more accurately, the Tory party is simply a vehicle for implementing what Cummings/Johnson want. The dissenters have been booted out, so now if you vote Tory you ARE voting to enable Johnson/Cummings

If only the world were as black and white as you seem to want it to be.







BST, I am not saying that I don’t understand the point you are making.
I am saying that lots of people voted the way they did because of who the respective party leaders were.
Simple as that.
The average voter out there wouldn’t consider the points you are making.

Donnywolf

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1538 on July 25, 2020, 10:46:33 am by Donnywolf »
They wouldnt - its become a Presidential style Election we have these days *

Lots of people cited they would not vote for Corbyn and lots of others opted for the go getter Johnson because he came across as an intelligent, go getting, buffoon

The Press obviously can play their part to get the Party they want in charge in charge and Social Media also must play a massive pert

* I say "these days" but going back to Mrs Thatcher I remember she was "touted" as a potential great leader as "it would be good to have a woman in charge" Probably did not begin there either

wilts rover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1539 on July 30, 2020, 07:06:28 pm by wilts rover »
Offical government statistics - you can't make them up.

But Boris Johnson can:

In a letter to the OSR, End Child Poverty Coalition chairwoman Anna Feuchtwang said: "It cannot be right that official figures on something as fundamental as how many children are in poverty continue to be used selectively, inaccurately and, ultimately, misleadingly."

Responding to the complaints set out in the letter, Ed Humpherson, director-general for regulation at the statistics authority, said: "Our team has investigated the statements which you highlight (and has reached the same conclusion that these statements are incorrect)."

Labour's shadow education secretary Kate Green said it was "shameful" that the prime minister "is unable to tell the truth about the hardship faced by so many families struggling to make ends meet".

She added: "The prime minister must now correct the record, both publicly and in Parliament, and ensure that when he next raises his government's damning record on child poverty, he comes clean about what the stats are saying."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53588275
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-child-poverty-reprimanded-osr-parliament-a9646321.html

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1540 on July 30, 2020, 10:59:11 pm by SydneyRover »
Lower than a snake's belly.

ravenrover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1541 on July 31, 2020, 09:47:27 am by ravenrover »
The old insult, would get under a snakes belly with a top hat on

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1542 on August 01, 2020, 10:01:08 am by SydneyRover »
''Evgeny Lebedev, Jo Johnson and Ian Botham among 36 peerage nominations''

 .............. it must be difficult to avoid getting some sort of award  :)

Donnywolf

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1543 on August 01, 2020, 11:49:38 am by Donnywolf »
Abolish all such trumped up / joke Honours

Instead have a PR elected Upper Chamber to (try to) oversee the HOC

wilts rover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1544 on August 01, 2020, 11:57:21 am by wilts rover »
Best one is Claire Fox.

Apparently Cummings & Johnson think that someone who belives the IRA were right to attempt to assasinate Margaret Thatcher and that child porn should not be banned from the internet is fit to decide the laws of the UK.

Funny old world.


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1545 on August 01, 2020, 12:09:10 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Brexit campaign bills being paid Wilts. Stuart and Hoey are two others.

But yes, imagine the furore if Corbyn had given Claire Fox a peerage...

I don't often lapse into "how can the left ever win with such biased media" depression, but when the unbalance is as brutal as this, it's hard not to.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1546 on August 01, 2020, 12:12:39 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Fox also defended the right of the IRA to blow up kids in Warrington 27 years ago when she was the leading light in the Revolutionary Communist Party. When she was Far Left, before she went right off the spectrum and came back as Far Right.

selby

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1547 on August 01, 2020, 12:55:46 pm by selby »
  Billy going on your theory, if the best politician in the world stood as a candidate in your constituency as a Tory would you vote for him then.

wilts rover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1548 on August 01, 2020, 01:00:40 pm by wilts rover »
This article is well worth a couple of minutes of your time Billy (and anyone else interested in why Johnson's second most important advisor is also an ex-member of the RCP):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/01/why-johnsons-tories-fell-for-a-tiny-sect-of-libertarian-provocateurs-rcp

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1549 on August 01, 2020, 01:14:45 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Two weeks after the Russia Report expressed incredulity that the Johnson Govt had refused to investigate Russian interference in British politics, Johnson finally acts.

He gives a peerage to Yevgeny Lebedev. That's a Russian oligarch, media magnate and son of a leading KGB officer now given the keys to the heart of Govt.

Anyone give a f**k anymore? Or is anything acceptable as long as you get your Brexit?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 01:59:13 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1550 on August 01, 2020, 06:27:54 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Christ, it gets better!

Another peerage has gone to James Wharton.

James Wharton is the personal adviser to Aleksandr Temerko.

Aleksandr Temerko runs the Russian state arms industry. He has also made lavish contributions to the Tory party and the Brexit campaign.

It's happening. Right in front of your eyes. And not a word of concern from any Tory or Brexit supporter.

Not a word.

Colemans Left Hook

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1551 on August 02, 2020, 01:04:23 am by Colemans Left Hook »

..my dislexic friend says,  there is an "alleged" rumour going around who the" father of this player might be"


"Real Madrid's Spanish forward Borja Mayoral, 23, who has been on loan at Levante, is nearing a move to Serie A side Lazio. (Marca)

Saturday's gossip column"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/53623314


Filo

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1552 on August 02, 2020, 03:10:55 pm by Filo »
He’ll suspend MP’s for voting against the Government, but won’t suspend an MP facing an allegation of rape

https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-party-criticised-for-not-suspending-mp-arrested-on-suspicion-of-rape-12040997

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1553 on August 02, 2020, 07:17:30 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
He’ll suspend MP’s for voting against the Government, but won’t suspend an MP facing an allegation of rape

https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-party-criticised-for-not-suspending-mp-arrested-on-suspicion-of-rape-12040997

The problem is if they suspend him they in effect publicly name him.

Muttley

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1554 on August 02, 2020, 07:34:43 pm by Muttley »
He’ll suspend MP’s for voting against the Government, but won’t suspend an MP facing an allegation of rape

https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-party-criticised-for-not-suspending-mp-arrested-on-suspicion-of-rape-12040997

The problem is if they suspend him they in effect publicly name him.

And probably his alleged victiom.

wilts rover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1555 on August 02, 2020, 08:28:24 pm by wilts rover »
Colin Parry (father of one of the boys murdered by the IRA bomb in Warrington) on Johnson granting a peerage to an IRA apologist:

https://twitter.com/ColinParryPeace/status/1289533659620315136

Donnywolf

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1556 on August 03, 2020, 06:36:28 am by Donnywolf »
Two weeks after the Russia Report expressed incredulity that the Johnson Govt had refused to investigate Russian interference in British politics, Johnson finally acts.

He gives a peerage to Yevgeny Lebedev. That's a Russian oligarch, media magnate and son of a leading KGB officer now given the keys to the heart of Govt.

Anyone give a f**k anymore? Or is anything acceptable as long as you get your Brexit?

https://www.thearticle.com/the-lords-list-and-the-rise-of-british-corruption

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1557 on August 03, 2020, 01:24:36 pm by SydneyRover »
the bullingdon club was all boys too. Women don't appear to rate in johnson's world.

''It's a boys club': Johnson accused of running ‘blokey’ government
Insiders say the prime minister’s Whitehall shake-up highlights the power of a small inner circle of men''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/11/its-a-boys-club-johnson-accused-of-running-blokey-government

The boys club at large banging on the table........

''Cabinet minister 'lobbied Boris Johnson to help Charlie Elphicke'
Exclusive: PM ‘initially sympathetic’ but was warned against helping MP who was last week convicted of sexual assault''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/03/cabinet-minister-lobbied-boris-johnson-help-charlie-elphicke
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 01:26:50 pm by SydneyRover »

ravenrover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1558 on August 03, 2020, 01:55:06 pm by ravenrover »
And my MP, the Chief Whip, says he was aware of some allegations!

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1559 on August 03, 2020, 07:20:46 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Re Elphicke, from that Guardian story.

The woman who he assaulted said "he chased her down the stairs at his London home chanting “I’m a naughty Tory”."

Jesus! It's like Alan B'Stard come to life.

 

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