General Election 2019 - 12th December

[Ldr]

Couldn't agree more

[SydneyRover]

hmm, let me see,who would I like to run the country?

A team that has failed for nine years, split the country failed economically and have voted a serial liar and spiv to be leader.

A team that has never run anything except a destruction campaign with a spiv for a leader

A team that wants to unite the country, look after those less well off, save the NHS and has a considered moderate opinion about taking the country into war.

gosh it's so difficult 

[Ldr]

That's idealist Sydney and I agree somewhat, unfortunately the toxicity of the Corbyn brand is what the majority of  voters see

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

I agree with you on Corbyn and have said so frequently.

But I don't agree that it is somehow overly idealistic to argue that folk should look at policies rather than the person.

In fact I'd argue the other way. If people like a party's policies, it's very, very odd that they should vehemently dislike the leader.

[albie]

Vote Johnson, get Trump;
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIO-xwmWwAI9hDl.jpg

Whose the daddy!

[Not Now Kato]

By undesirable I mean known criminals and people who haven't found work prior to coming here and come here for a free ride. Obviously, some of them will slip through the net but if they do they should be deported as soon as it is proved to be the case.

Thank you for your response BB.  We already have the mechanism to refuse entry to known criminals, (subject to that being down to certain crimes), also the ability to deport people.  I can attest to the latter being operational as my eldest Son was, at one point in his career, responsible for organising air transport to deport such people.
 
However, it would be almost impossible to determine if someone seeking entry had employment to go to, people come here on holiday or to go into higher education and some occasionally stay beyond their permitted time, (usually entering illegal employment). But ignoring those who legitimately come here to seek asylum, the number of people who come for, as you like to call it, 'a free ride' is quite small - unless you believe the sensationalism of the occasional ones reported in the likes of the Daily Mail, and I don't think you're daft enough to fall for those reports as being typical of lots of those foreigners coming to this country.

[DonnyOsmond]

I like Labours policies and other than Greens I can't see myself voting for anyone else primarily based on policies, maybe Lib Dems but they do worry me especially with abstaining with the NHS vote the other day.

Leader-wise, I don't think Corbyn is the best and Labour have better alternatives but I believe he'd put party ahead of his own opinions. I much prefer him to Johnson, Farage or Swinson.

[Ldr]

This is where we differ BST, I appreciate your view on Corbyn but don't have belief that the general public can see past personalities

[tommy toes]

Unfortunately you are right there Ldr.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The Farage bit is interesting as it could sap the tories in some areas.  I hope there is no pact as there is no way some.tory voters will vote brexit party, thus where will they go.

I'm swaying most towards tory, for me its usually them or lib dems, but it will never be Farage.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is where we differ BST, I appreciate your view on Corbyn but don't have belief that the general public can see past personalities

Ldr

I entirely agree with you. But I don't accept that as an acceptable state of affairs. Which is why I talk (incessantly) about policy.

[scawsby steve]

hmm, let me see,who would I like to run the country?

A team that has failed for nine years, split the country failed economically and have voted a serial liar and spiv to be leader.

A team that has never run anything except a destruction campaign with a spiv for a leader

A team that wants to unite the country, look after those less well off, save the NHS and has a considered moderate opinion about taking the country into war.

gosh it's so difficult 

Sydney, old mate. I agree with just about everything you've said there, apart from the bit about Labour wanting to unite the country. How on Earth can they do that? By telling 17.4 million people to f*ck off? Because that's exactly what they'll be doing if they hold a second referendum, and put Remain on the ballot paper, which instantly negates the result of the first vote, without it ever having been enacted upon.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

How to you draw the conclusion that negotiating a Leave deal and then holding a vote on whether people want that is telling Leave voters to f**k off?

Especially when Corbyn WANTS us to leave the EU?

[DonnyOsmond]

hmm, let me see,who would I like to run the country?

A team that has failed for nine years, split the country failed economically and have voted a serial liar and spiv to be leader.

A team that has never run anything except a destruction campaign with a spiv for a leader

A team that wants to unite the country, look after those less well off, save the NHS and has a considered moderate opinion about taking the country into war.

gosh it's so difficult 

Sydney, old mate. I agree with just about everything you've said there, apart from the bit about Labour wanting to unite the country. How on Earth can they do that? By telling 17.4 million people to f*ck off? Because that's exactly what they'll be doing if they hold a second referendum, and put Remain on the ballot paper, which instantly negates the result of the first vote, without it ever having been enacted upon.

What option would you take to unite the country?

[scawsby steve]

hmm, let me see,who would I like to run the country?

A team that has failed for nine years, split the country failed economically and have voted a serial liar and spiv to be leader.

A team that has never run anything except a destruction campaign with a spiv for a leader

A team that wants to unite the country, look after those less well off, save the NHS and has a considered moderate opinion about taking the country into war.

gosh it's so difficult 

Sydney, old mate. I agree with just about everything you've said there, apart from the bit about Labour wanting to unite the country. How on Earth can they do that? By telling 17.4 million people to f*ck off? Because that's exactly what they'll be doing if they hold a second referendum, and put Remain on the ballot paper, which instantly negates the result of the first vote, without it ever having been enacted upon.

What option would you take to unite the country?

As I've said many times on here, DO, there isn't one. We're f*cked forever, and Cameron is to blame.

[selby]

  Yep Filo, all it took was a skim off the top of ordinary workers pensions for Brown to save the world. how do you think they will spend spend spend, this time. It will not be with the multinationals or the rich peoples money, they will not be here  for them to do it.
  If Corbyn get's in, the lack of investment in this country will make Brexit economy forecasts look like a tea party. Whenever Labour get in the economy tanks, and this guy's ideas will make the industrialists and bankers  vacate quicker than ever, because it has never been easier to transfer wealth and manufacturing around the world.
  Oh they will still make money in the UK, but forget getting lot's of tax and profits to fund your grand designs, that will be somewhere else  at a lower percentage.
  You can shout from the highest building and stamp your feet, that is what will happen. And if they still go on with their ideology and grand schemes the working man will pick up the tab.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

SS.

How to you draw the conclusion that negotiating a Leave deal and then holding a vote on whether people want that is telling Leave voters to f**k off?

Especially when Corbyn WANTS us to leave the EU?

The problem with it is what do you do next? Propose another deal? Keep going until theres a majority for something?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Labour's policy is precisely to propose another deal. One that is far closer to the average opinion in the country than anything Johnson or Farage have tabled. One that, an opinion poll earlier this year found that 75% of the population would have had as their first or second choice. And then ask to country if that is what they want.

What we have at the moment is a narrow vote 3.5 years ago for a Brexit that was never defined, and that result having been hijacked by the far right of British politics to drive us to a type of Brexit that was never remotely discussed in 2016.

And folk say that Labour's policy is somehow an outrage against democracy while Johnson and Farage are upholding democratic principles...

[SydneyRover]

  Yep Filo, all it took was a skim off the top of ordinary workers pensions for Brown to save the world. how do you think they will spend spend spend, this time. It will not be with the multinationals or the rich peoples money, they will not be here  for them to do it.
  If Corbyn get's in, the lack of investment in this country will make Brexit economy forecasts look like a tea party. Whenever Labour get in the economy tanks, and this guy's ideas will make the industrialists and bankers  vacate quicker than ever, because it has never been easier to transfer wealth and manufacturing around the world.
  Oh they will still make money in the UK, but forget getting lot's of tax and profits to fund your grand designs, that will be somewhere else  at a lower percentage.
  You can shout from the highest building and stamp your feet, that is what will happen. And if they still go on with their ideology and grand schemes the working man will pick up the tab.

Selby, wasn't it the industrialist's, bankers and tory toffs that gave the world the gfc or are you going to blame JC for that?

[SydneyRover]

Selby, I'll add to my previous post that in Aus the labor party dealt with the gfc with a massive stimulus package that was opposed every step of the way by the LNP coaltiton. The result was that Australia avoided recession and survived better than most countries in the world. However the msm which includes all the Murdoch rags set about to deny and destroy that to the point now that and try to portray it as reckless spending. The same is happening in the UK.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

[wilts rover]

  Yep Filo, all it took was a skim off the top of ordinary workers pensions for Brown to save the world. how do you think they will spend spend spend, this time. It will not be with the multinationals or the rich peoples money, they will not be here  for them to do it.
  If Corbyn get's in, the lack of investment in this country will make Brexit economy forecasts look like a tea party. Whenever Labour get in the economy tanks, and this guy's ideas will make the industrialists and bankers  vacate quicker than ever, because it has never been easier to transfer wealth and manufacturing around the world.
  Oh they will still make money in the UK, but forget getting lot's of tax and profits to fund your grand designs, that will be somewhere else  at a lower percentage.
  You can shout from the highest building and stamp your feet, that is what will happen. And if they still go on with their ideology and grand schemes the working man will pick up the tab.

The country will be better off under Corbyn's spending plans then Johnson's say those dangerous left wing organisations, the Financial Times, the Institute for Fiscal Studies and CitiBank:

https://www.ft.com/content/7cdfa832-e908-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55

[SydneyRover]

Hindsight does not mean communicating via your anus! 😊

[SydneyRover]

Fracking banned in UK as government makes major U-turn

“When the Tory government overruled local democratic decisions to halt fracking, communities did not give up. When fracking protesters went to jail, communities did not give up. And now they have forced the government to U-turn.''

“The Tories owe the public an apology, and an explanation of how much public money they wasted while ignoring the science.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/02/fracking-banned-in-uk-as-government-makes-major-u-turn

ere Marge, wot's that burning smell? red lines George red lines.

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election-win-jeremy-corbyn-wealth-taxes.  Interesting piece

[Donnywolf]

Fracking banned in UK as government makes major U-turn

“When the Tory government overruled local democratic decisions to halt fracking, communities did not give up. When fracking protesters went to jail, communities did not give up. And now they have forced the government to U-turn.''

“The Tories owe the public an apology, and an explanation of how much public money they wasted while ignoring the science.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/02/fracking-banned-in-uk-as-government-makes-major-u-turn

ere Marge, wot's that burning smell? red lines George red lines.

Steal Corbyns thunder off him - as he vowed to ban fracking and be better for the environment

Tories jump in and despite their previous support to let big business loose where they were not wanted they too ban Fracking

Now the masterstroke - once they win the Election (as they hope they will) they suddenly produce a new Report and a few scientists to back it up and say "actually after an in depth study Fracking isnt as bad as we thought so we have given the go ahead again"

Cynical ? You bet I am

[selby]

  Sydney, Australia survived a recession because China were buying  every piece of coal and mineral they could produce to fire their big step forward.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election-win-jeremy-corbyn-wealth-taxes.  Interesting piece

Its worrying a fair amount of it.  Discourage the rich from.investing and drastically increase taxes on successful businesses. It could really discourage business investment.

[SydneyRover]

  Sydney, Australia survived a recession because China were buying  every piece of coal and mineral they could produce to fire their big step forward.

Do you want to back up your 'hindsight' with some proof Selby or have you been sitting on the Sun?

[SydneyRover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election-win-jeremy-corbyn-wealth-taxes.  Interesting piece

The article doesn't tell us where they have their money now? If they are only in the UK to 'save' their money then they won't be missed, Dyson and plenty of others like him are planning or have already gone. People will always come and go does this mean we shouldn't make Britain a better place?

If people can make money and they are physically safe they will stay.

From Wilts post yesterday:

''The country will be better off under Corbyn's spending plans then Johnson's say those dangerous left wing organisations, the Financial Times, the Institute for Fiscal Studies and CitiBank:''

https://www.ft.com/content/7cdfa832-e908-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55

We have a businessman on here a good local employer in Wing Commander that wants out of the EU because he sees it better for his business but hasn't explained why and he trotted out the old rubbish about labor governments always leaving deficits, the moral is look at the evidence.

[bpoolrover]

Because he does not need to come on a messageboard and justify himself, he has stated his opinion just like others so what’s the problem? He might have his own reasons that he wishes to keep to himself