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Author Topic: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves  (Read 2195 times)

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Donnywolf

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Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« on May 20, 2020, 08:07:58 am by Donnywolf »
On 15th Feb in the Thread this is not the B****t I voted for I posted this
======================================================================

I am loath to post here BUT ..... Boston (Lincolnshire) I think had the highest Leave vote of the Referendum (cant be bothered to look)

The local Population and that of Wisbech (Cambridgeshire) consisted of lots of EU migrants being employed in the "fields" picking Veg and largely taking up lots of jobs that others locally could do but were not doing

Pro rata they took up kids places in Schools and Doctors appointments etc - so the local English population voted en masse to have the EU Migrants sent back to presumably free up the School places and Doctors appointments and of course space at Bostom Pilgrim Hospital which serves a huge area

That was the right of the voters and they took it and I for one defend their right to do so just as my vote should be respected by those very same people

So that will be the end of the EU Migrants and everyone will be happy wont they ? Oh but wait who will pick the Cabbages and who will do the menial tasks that need to be done.

Well I am guessing it will be lots of the people that voted to upset the status quo. Lets face it there are lots of people who wont / dont or cant work and I suspect they will be cajoled / encouraged by stopping of benefits and made to work by the Government that is pledging to make us all one equal Country

The only alternative I suspect is to pay people a massive amount to move to Boston and Wisbech and Kings Lynn etc to fill those menial jobs which of course will push up the prices of those goods and services. I include services because there will be many vacancies in many Towns that will soon need filling

Hotel receptionists - Waiters Barmen etc etc and when the current pool of labour diminishes we will STILL as a population want a Starbucks Coffee or a cheap Haircut and someone will need to do it

I knew I should not have started ! 


======================================================================


And yesterday during the Coronavirus briefing - ostensibly to deliver news on Coronavirus - the subject of Vegetables / harvesting came up - what a strange choice of venue to raise it. It appears only 1/3rd of the Romanians have returned (a lot of them on Govt sponsored flights I seem to recall) so there is a labour shortfall that needs to be filled "for the good of the nation"

However what "they" said was if you are furloughed you will have the opportunity to help the country AND supplement your income - or if you are wanting to help out as a "land army" type volunteer you can and they have set up Websites to help people find such work

My question is contained in my February post and I think given this was raised so openly yesterday it is a short step to people (UK people) going to pick vegetables - or being forced into other menial tasks.
Forced ? Well if we need a workforce where will they come from. Well this Govt that has Iain Duncan-Smith as the architect of Universal Credit and Priti Patel in Cabinet and all the rest of yes people it is only a short step to "pick those Veg - its gainful employment - it pays a good wage - it gets you off benefits - oh and if you dont then we will withold your Benefits"

Anyone thing that CANT happen - and down in Boston and Wisbech - what a bitter irony as they voted to remove the very people who used to do that very job
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 08:12:00 am by Donnywolf »



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Hounslowrover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #1 on May 20, 2020, 08:26:47 am by Hounslowrover »
On the programme 'The Day the Immigrants Went Back' by Ewan Davies a few years ago, unemployed locals were given jobs the immigrants did.  Ome farmer had asparagus pickers, he was making a loss as he had to pay the locals minimum wage.  The local blokes in the potato packing factory had their conveyor belt slowed down for them.  It was filmed around Boston, worth a watch if it is still out there.

Donnywolf

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #2 on May 20, 2020, 08:49:42 am by Donnywolf »
Thanks for that Hounslowrover - I will look that up

Similarly it will apply to all menial jobs nationwide . I see it coming !

IDM

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #3 on May 20, 2020, 09:02:52 am by IDM »
Wouldn’t non-UK workers be eligible for the minimum wage anyway.?

So, folks in those regions wanted the immigrants out so their own would benefit from freed up schools and doctors, but they don’t want to do the jobs.?

What goes around comes around eh?

SydneyRover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #4 on May 20, 2020, 09:14:53 am by SydneyRover »
Maybe if they took the cost to fly people in and added it to local wages there could be more takers?

Donnywolf

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #5 on May 20, 2020, 09:32:35 am by Donnywolf »
.. but then that would defeat the object wouldnt it

They (the people of Boston) recorded the highest Leave rate as this link shows https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616740  so therefoe they wanted 'em out

If we as a Country let someone back in be they from ex EU Member States or Ghana to name but one - wont they be in almost the same "pickle" as their local facilities will still be overrun by the lets call them Veg pickers?

Perhaps at that point they might think (I cant speak for them) that they voted Leave to take back control but now have exactly the same problem - but they cant moan to the Govt as they will say we delivered on the will of the British people

They the Bostonians wont have to do the work themselves of course as the Ghana folks will be doing it but back to status quo but Bostonians will have the right to have a Blue Passport again and any benefits that may accrue in the medium to long term

Or have I over simplified what might happen ? Thats a genuine question as like the bloke in the A viva advert says " I dont know - NOBODY knows"

tyke1962

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #6 on May 20, 2020, 09:37:58 am by tyke1962 »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .


idler

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #7 on May 20, 2020, 09:46:29 am by idler »
When you see bits of a police programme that features Boston you certainly wouldn't want to live there.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #8 on May 20, 2020, 10:00:43 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Tyke.

If you have a unified Single Market, that requires mobility of labour to go to where the job opportunities are.

The REAL question in  2016 was very simple: Do we value the very large economic benefits of the Single Market over the societal issues associated with EU free movement?

That is what a confident, modern, grown up country would have discussed.

Instead, the Remain side totally blanked immigration and the Leave side told us we could stop immigration AND be richer.

SydneyRover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #9 on May 20, 2020, 10:23:29 am by SydneyRover »
Maybe if they took the cost to fly people in and added it to local wages there could be more takers?

Maybe it wasn't clear but I mean you may get more local takers Wolf.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #10 on May 20, 2020, 10:38:19 am by Glyn_Wigley »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

tyke1962

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #11 on May 20, 2020, 06:12:49 pm by tyke1962 »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

From what I gather its not a job anyone can do , first of all you have to be fit and be able to work quickly and effectively .

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's super skilled but it's not suitable for everyone either .

The people who come here to do this work have the attributes needed and clearly have the trust of the producers .

It's what you would class as a horses for courses job apparently .

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #12 on May 20, 2020, 06:46:59 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

From what I gather its not a job anyone can do , first of all you have to be fit and be able to work quickly and effectively .

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's super skilled but it's not suitable for everyone either .

The people who come here to do this work have the attributes needed and clearly have the trust of the producers .

It's what you would class as a horses for courses job apparently .


You're confusing being skilled with physical fitness. Veg pickers are unskilled manual workers.

tyke1962

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #13 on May 20, 2020, 07:25:22 pm by tyke1962 »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

From what I gather its not a job anyone can do , first of all you have to be fit and be able to work quickly and effectively .

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's super skilled but it's not suitable for everyone either .

The people who come here to do this work have the attributes needed and clearly have the trust of the producers .

It's what you would class as a horses for courses job apparently .


You're confusing being skilled with physical fitness. Veg pickers are unskilled manual workers.

I'm not confusing anything , I said it wasn't super skilled but it isn't a job anyone can do either , it's a specialist occupation .

Those who do this kind of work and do it year in and year out are cut from a certain cloth , it's unfair to put them in a box marked unskilled manual worker in my opinion .

It also falls under the title of seasonal work and presents a good example of migrant workers coming to the UK and earning a few quid and providing workers we need  but doesn't necessarily reconcile with having the right to work and live here permanently either .


drfchound

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #14 on May 20, 2020, 09:01:31 pm by drfchound »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

From what I gather its not a job anyone can do , first of all you have to be fit and be able to work quickly and effectively .

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's super skilled but it's not suitable for everyone either .

The people who come here to do this work have the attributes needed and clearly have the trust of the producers .

It's what you would class as a horses for courses job apparently .


You're confusing being skilled with physical fitness. Veg pickers are unskilled manual workers.

I'm not confusing anything , I said it wasn't super skilled but it isn't a job anyone can do either , it's a specialist occupation .

Those who do this kind of work and do it year in and year out are cut from a certain cloth , it's unfair to put them in a box marked unskilled manual worker in my opinion .

It also falls under the title of seasonal work and presents a good example of migrant workers coming to the UK and earning a few quid and providing workers we need  but doesn't necessarily reconcile with having the right to work and live here permanently either .







A good summary there tyke.
If it is a job that anyone can do I wonder why there is a shortage of workers for those jobs.

tyke1962

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #15 on May 20, 2020, 09:17:22 pm by tyke1962 »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

From what I gather its not a job anyone can do , first of all you have to be fit and be able to work quickly and effectively .

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's super skilled but it's not suitable for everyone either .

The people who come here to do this work have the attributes needed and clearly have the trust of the producers .

It's what you would class as a horses for courses job apparently .


You're confusing being skilled with physical fitness. Veg pickers are unskilled manual workers.

I'm not confusing anything , I said it wasn't super skilled but it isn't a job anyone can do either , it's a specialist occupation .

Those who do this kind of work and do it year in and year out are cut from a certain cloth , it's unfair to put them in a box marked unskilled manual worker in my opinion .

It also falls under the title of seasonal work and presents a good example of migrant workers coming to the UK and earning a few quid and providing workers we need  but doesn't necessarily reconcile with having the right to work and live here permanently either .







A good summary there tyke.
If it is a job that anyone can do I wonder why there is a shortage of workers for those jobs.

Exactly .

ravenrover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #16 on May 20, 2020, 10:16:28 pm by ravenrover »
Glass backs?

SydneyRover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #17 on May 20, 2020, 11:22:52 pm by SydneyRover »
Veg picking is a job anyone that is fit can do, but it depends on how fast you can do it without ruining the product. There would have to be some sort of target/pay and it would take a couple of weeks to or more to get the strength and technique sorted.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #18 on May 20, 2020, 11:55:12 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
There's a significant difference between free movement within the EU and an immigration policy that is controlled .

It was fairly obvious to me that immigration wouldn't end for the reasons pointed out on this thread and neither did I want it to .

However having the ability to control the numbers and identify the skills we needed was important to me .

However for political purposes the Tories decided to obtain a huge stick and play to their right wing audience and beat Johnny Foreigner with it .

Now they are beginning to look rather stupid as well as those who swallowed it hook , line and sinker .

I repeat there is a significant difference between controlling your own borders and having very little control at all .

As I said in another thread some wriggle room on free movement from the EU would have seen Remain home and dry in the referendum .



What skills would you have identified as veg pickers needing to have?

From what I gather its not a job anyone can do , first of all you have to be fit and be able to work quickly and effectively .

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's super skilled but it's not suitable for everyone either .

The people who come here to do this work have the attributes needed and clearly have the trust of the producers .

It's what you would class as a horses for courses job apparently .


You're confusing being skilled with physical fitness. Veg pickers are unskilled manual workers.

I'm not confusing anything , I said it wasn't super skilled but it isn't a job anyone can do either , it's a specialist occupation .

Those who do this kind of work and do it year in and year out are cut from a certain cloth , it's unfair to put them in a box marked unskilled manual worker in my opinion .

It also falls under the title of seasonal work and presents a good example of migrant workers coming to the UK and earning a few quid and providing workers we need  but doesn't necessarily reconcile with having the right to work and live here permanently either .







A good summary there tyke.
If it is a job that anyone can do I wonder why there is a shortage of workers for those jobs.

Exactly .

They come over here. Putting food on our tables, the bas**rds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KVO378tjsw

SydneyRover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #19 on May 22, 2020, 09:31:24 am by SydneyRover »
Apparently Charlie is going to roll his sleeves up and pick some veg, one can always rely on him in a crisis  :)

Draytonian III

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #20 on May 23, 2020, 01:36:58 am by Draytonian III »
A mate of mine does it and he absolutely loves it ,he works with the same gang week in week out, he’s out in the fresh air which is an added bonus to him as he spent 25 years + working down one of the local pits

Colemans Left Hook

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #21 on May 23, 2020, 02:19:18 am by Colemans Left Hook »
strangely on Bloomberg came across an article about migrant workers in Canada the same day as this topic came up here  it mentioned getting temporary workers from The West Indies,  Guatamala !!!! and some other obscure country

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/03/24/farms-will-decide-how-to-isolate-migrant-workers-in-canada-says-liberal-mp.html

Canadian farmers breathed a sigh of relief last week when Ottawa said the migrant farmworkers — who comprise an annual workforce of nearly 60,000 people — would be allowed into the country despite the borders being closed to international visitors as a measure to limit the spread of the deadly COVID-19 virus.

........

Badawey said the onus will be on the farmers to ensure their international employees — most of whom hail from Mexico and Central America — have the proper accommodation to self-isolate
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 02:24:11 am by Colemans Left Hook »

jucyberry

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #22 on May 23, 2020, 01:31:49 pm by jucyberry »
The farmers should drag the people from Boston out of their homes by their ears . Who the heck did they think was going to bring the harvests in if they got rid of the migrant workers?

Its bloody hard, back breaking work, so far away from that jolly experience you might have had as a kid picking their own punnet  of strawberries.

You have to be fast, accurate and careful to pick only the best quality produce what ever the weather.

drfchound

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #23 on May 23, 2020, 01:38:19 pm by drfchound »
Well some posters think it is easy enough to do, something that anyone can learn in a couple of weeks.

SydneyRover

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #24 on May 23, 2020, 11:06:16 pm by SydneyRover »
I learned in a couple of weeks but probably wasn't as good as the older hands  :)

Donnywolf

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #25 on May 24, 2020, 06:46:02 am by Donnywolf »
The farmers should drag the people from Boston out of their homes by their ears . Who the heck did they think was going to bring the harvests in if they got rid of the migrant workers?

Agreed - the people voting Leave wanted the end of immigation (its anecdotal but I have many many friends and relatives that admit that is what they wanted) - and thought probably correctly that they would get more GP appointments, hospital spaces, places in schools and schools where their kids would not be held back by people having to learn english

However they failed to realise the bigger picture which I started the thread with and imo with the Tories and who knows any subsequent Govt it will be THEM that are picking the Veg and making Coffees in Starbucks and cleaning Hospital wards

Or does anyone NOT see this present Govt "forcing" people to work in what till recently were classed as menial jobs by witholding benefits if individuals do not take up jobs that are being offered. IMO it has always happened and I think it will again

I sure CAN see a smirking Iain Duncan-Smith announcing a new policy to do just that and bet he would not be able to contain himself and actually say - "well this is what the Referendum Result produced - its what those voting leave wanted - and surely they must have realised with the end of freedom of movement there would be a labour shortfall and local populations would have access to those jobs"
 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 06:56:17 am by Donnywolf »

IDM

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #26 on May 24, 2020, 08:50:50 am by IDM »
Hasn’t it always been the case that unemployment benefits are affected if you don’t take the jobs on offer without good reason.

idler

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #27 on May 24, 2020, 09:54:49 am by idler »
That's true in theory IDM but not in practice.
My daughter when a supply teacher was put under the microscope during her first six weeks holiday break before becoming permanent staff. She was put on a course with another old lad who had been made redundant from a bank. They were the only two that weren't a dead loss according to one job centre employee. The loud mouthed swaggering yobs were just allowed to collect because they didn't want work at any cost.
Some years ago my father-in-law was told to apply for jobs that included lifting. He was almost 63 at the time, just made redundant after never being out of work in his life. He also had a hernia at this time. They did eventually see sense.
We have an underclass at the moment that see benefits as a right and no need to do anything to receive them. They although a minority are a complete drag on society.

drfchound

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #28 on May 24, 2020, 10:36:43 am by drfchound »
A good post that idler.

selby

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Re: Those Cabbages are not going to pick themselves
« Reply #29 on May 24, 2020, 01:26:07 pm by selby »
  There was a lad on the Barnsley forum a couple of weeks ago whose post will still be on their site applied for a job picking fruit in East Anglia as he was out of work.
  When he got the terms he was told he would have to stay in the accommodation provided and pay rent and also had to pay for food provided on site which would be deducted from his wage.
  He decided it would not be worth his while the rent and food taking the majority of the wage.
  The farmers, or that farmer are running a scam which is next to slave labour.
 There has always been a section of the work force that have sponged on the majority that work hard to earn a living, and their lifestyle has always been protected by the left in politics and come down hard by those on the right, and unfortunately many through no fault of their own have suffered when they should not have, while the habitual hard core spongers seem to get away with it.
  There is not a lot wrong with the system, it is some of the people in the system that are wrong.
 

 

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