Track and Trace

[EasyforDennis]

I know this might sound a bit simplistic but seeing as Google knows where everyone who owns a phone is at anyone time., could they not develop a track and trace app worldwide for Covid19? I know this would exclude us as we think we know better than everyone else but?

[drfchound]

Sounds like a good idea but wouldn’t people just not download the App in case the government used the data collected in some kind of devious way.

[Glyn_Wigley]

An app like that is only any use if people download and use the app. I won't download it because I don't use the internet on the phone. I'm not paying extra for something I can use as much as I like at home.

I would imagine there is a sizable chunk of the population who don't want (or don't know how to use) a smartphone and also those who can't afford to buy or run one. And my guess is that those will tend to be from the parts of the population more vulnerable to the virus.

[drfchound]

Agreed GW (wow), my wife for example has the most basic of phones and never even switches it on unless she wants to make one of her six a year calls.

[MachoMadness]

That's very similar to the system they have in South Korea. It essentially publicises the locations of anyone with symptoms so you know where to avoid them. The penalty for not using the app (or other tracking tech like ankle bracelets) is a 10k fine.

It's interesting because that sort of thing would never fly over here because of the privacy concerns, but over there they seem content to sacrifice their privacy for the sake of getting the virus under control. And it is under control there, although they have only recently had a spike in cases again.

[EasyforDennis]

If you use Google maps Google know where you are.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If you use Google maps Google know where you are.

Well, I'm always at home when I use it.

[IDM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52442754

Does any one else find this confusing.?

Take the manual method:

“Anyone in England who tests positive for coronavirus will be contacted via text, email or over the phone and asked to log on to the NHS Test and Trace website, where they'll be asked for details of people with whom they've been in close contact....

...This could include household members, but extends to anyone they have been within 2m (6ft) of for more than 15 minutes....

...These close contacts will be told to stay at home for up to 14 days, even if they do not have symptoms, to stop them from unknowingly spreading the virus...

...While these contacts will have to quarantine, unless they also develop symptoms the rest of their household will not have to self-isolate alongside them.”

So - let’s say someone I know has symptoms/tests positive and lets a tracer know, including that I have been in close contact with them.  The tracer gets in touch with me - assuming the other person passes on my contact details.

I am then asked to quarantine/self isolate for 14 days, but the rest of my household isn’t.?

So if I am asymptomatic who’s to say I haven’t passed the virus onto one of my family members, again who may just be a carrier, who then form whatever reason passes it onto someone else who does get ill and dies.

All those instances of transfer could have happened on the same day, so before any symptoms could present.  Eventually the next infected person may then use track and trace, but after the virus had spread..

Surely if track and trace tells me I have been in contact with an infected person then all my household should isolate.?

...

Then in the schematic further down that page, the “contact” only has to self isolate if they are high risk, but not if low risk.?  Can’t low risk people still transmit the virus anyway?

That’s two different descriptions/methods in the same article..

I’m not against methods to trace the virus spread to prevent it going further, but this needs to be made much clearer and explained to the public in very simple terms.

But it starts tomorrow.!

[IDM]

And it will be our “civic duty” to take part..

I wonder if there will be any exceptions.!

[EasyforDennis]

Don't worry by all accounts it doesn't work.

[Filo]

I won’t be using it I have no confidence in anything these idiots try to implement

[IDM]

I’m not even talking about the app..

[roversdude]

Did I read somewhere that Cummings and his sister are directors of the app company or did I dream that ?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Did I read somewhere that Cummings and his sister are directors of the app company or did I dream that ?

Just his sister, I think. So who cares if it works or not as long as she gets the dosh from the Treasury, eh?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Did I read somewhere that Cummings and his sister are directors of the app company or did I dream that ?

Just his sister, I think. So who cares if it works or not as long as she gets the dosh from the Treasury, eh?

You'd think she could have at least offered to look after her nephew...

[Donnywolf]

Did I read somewhere that Cummings and his sister are directors of the app company or did I dream that ?

It was asked the other day in a Newspaper article under the headline "was this a business Meeting" - referring to Cummings trip to Durham

That aside I share the reservations that IDM has outlined. Lets face it (non Cummings related) with the simple Stay at Home rule (just one rule / bit of info) people did not understand it and / or just ignored it. This is way way too complex. More questions than answers again

I also have read that there IS an App that works it was reported using existing technology and is in extensive use in US and Europe and yet we "spurned it".

Perhaps again Johnson didnt want to ally us with Europe or maybe he thought returning to the question that was asked "we" had a better one.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Did I read somewhere that Cummings and his sister are directors of the app company or did I dream that ?

It was asked the other day in a Newspaper article under the headline "was this a business Meeting" - referring to Cummings trip to Durham

That aside I share the reservations that IDM has outlined. Lets face it (non Cummings related) with the simple Stay at Home rule (just one rule / bit of info) people did not understand it and / or just ignored it. This is way way too complex. More questions than answers again

I also have read that there IS an App that works it was reported using existing technology and is in extensive use in US and Europe and yet we "spurned it".

Perhaps again Johnson didnt want to ally us with Europe or maybe he thought returning to the question that was asked "we" had a better one.

Well, we couldn't use it earlier or else Dominic wouldn't have been able to try and sneak off for his jollies, would he?

[IDM]

So if someone tests positive and had been in close contact with people they know well enough to pass on their contact details to the tracer people, wouldn’t most of us have just told those contacts directly.?

[ravenrover]

So no app
 I nip into town on the bus, haven't got a clue who the other people on the bus are
1 how do they trace the other passengers?
2 If they do manage to identify someone how do they contact them by phone?
3 Where do they get a phone number from?
4  You don't have a phone then what?
Seems like a wonderful scheme to me!

[IDM]

The manual system will only work by contacting people who know each other, not strangers, as by default strangers won’t have the contact details of each other to pass on to the tracers.

So, by manually reporting you may have symptoms, and if you then test positive, you then are expected to pass on names and contact details of people with whom you have been in close contact with.

So excluding members of your own household this means you are effectively being asked to confess to breaking the existing lockdown rules, or that your workplace is not Covid secure.?

With the app, you have to have your phone with you and Bluetooth on, but not would still depend on the first patient to reveal they are infected.  The database or whatever it is then notifies the people who have been close by - assuming they have the app running live, who are then expected to further report etc.

This might work, to track where the virus is/had been, which could be useful, but I can’t see how this would limit the spread.

Plus you are relying on people to follow the rules - and many will now say why should they.!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

So no app
 I nip into town on the bus, haven't got a clue who the other people on the bus are
1 how do they trace the other passengers?
2 If they do manage to identify someone how do they contact them by phone?
3 Where do they get a phone number from?
4  You don't have a phone then what?
Seems like a wonderful scheme to me!

Without an app (that not everyone would have the ability to use and many would choose not to use) there's not a huge amount they can do.  The better action is to avoid the other people on the bus, wear a mask as recommended and keep your distance.  There is no one size fits solution, we all need to do lots of things combined together.

[Not Now Kato]

Rushing this out now is nothing to do with sorting CV-19, it's all about shifting the discussion away from Dominic Cummings and taking the heat off Johnson; neither more nor less.
 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Rushing this out now is nothing to do with sorting CV-19, it's all about shifting the discussion away from Dominic Cummings and taking the heat off Johnson; neither more nor less.
 

Whilst the timing is a little convenient for them, in fairness they announced it before the story and it's been in the makings for some time.

[ravenrover]

They were not going to implement it yet, deffo an attempt to move the spotlight the thing they've announced this morning is utter rubbish can't work unless you know the people you've been in contact with and wouldn't you let them know yourself?

[SydneyRover]

Coronavirus: Track and trace system in place from June - PM

Boris Johnson said 25,000 contact tracers, able to track 10,000 new cases a day, would be in place by 1 June.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52741331

[Donnywolf]

Three words spring to mind

Not Track and Trace

Baddiel and Skinner

Sorry can someone embed this below please (technomuppet in operation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A2O8Q5WxiM

[BillyStubbsTears]

R4 last night were reporting that at the very top end of efficiency, they hope to trace maybe 15% of people. Probably more like 5%.

They also interviewed someone from a local council who is involved in implementing T&T. She said she'd been informed by Govt at 2pm yesterday that the system was going live at 9am today.

Just a thought. I'm sure this wasn't suddenly fast tracked as a way of moving the media spotlight of Cumgate?

Surely not...

[SydneyRover]

If it works the govt is off the hook on that one.

[IDM]

I have said this before - folks already borderline with following the rules, will be much less likely to follow any new rules because of Cummings.

I think the track and trace launching today is to grab headlines and to deflect from the changes to furlough arrangements.  The details of how much employers are expected to contribute from August are due to be announced any time now.

[silent majority]

Did I read somewhere that Cummings and his sister are directors of the app company or did I dream that ?

Just his sister, I think. So who cares if it works or not as long as she gets the dosh from the Treasury, eh?

But she's a NED, so hardly raking in the cash.