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Author Topic: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore  (Read 8356 times)

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NewDonny

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #30 on June 27, 2020, 12:18:18 pm by NewDonny »
Well of course you can all kid yourself about loyalty and all that but Darren knows that as soon as results go against him he’ll be out like anyone else. That’s football today I’m afraid, dog eat dog, there is no loyalty. Also if his current contract expires at the end of this month as it probably does, then he can leave for nothing so you can forget your silly buy out fees. To be fair most Wanderers fans want Evatt and I’m still confident it will be him in the next few days but should that not happen and rumours around DM are true you guys may have to just face up to facts like it or not.

It's a rolling 12 month contract, which means it always has 12 months to run.

And I can assure you we won't be sacking him if results don't go our way, that's not what we as a club are about.

I notice you have completely ignored the information I gave you earlier, but if you don't believe me maybe Darren's words will suffice?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/club-gets-darren-moore-whole-boss-his-commitment-doncaster-rovers-2543353

Agreed, it's only a rolling 12 month contract if both parties agree to go forward into a further year.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 12:23:20 pm by NewDonny »



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firestarter

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #31 on June 27, 2020, 12:20:14 pm by firestarter »
I see some Bolton fans still have delusions of grandeur. It’s all a bit sad really

Chris Black come back

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #32 on June 27, 2020, 12:26:28 pm by Chris Black come back »
Well of course you can all kid yourself about loyalty and all that but Darren knows that as soon as results go against him he’ll be out like anyone else. That’s football today I’m afraid, dog eat dog, there is no loyalty. Also if his current contract expires at the end of this month as it probably does, then he can leave for nothing so you can forget your silly buy out fees. To be fair most Wanderers fans want Evatt and I’m still confident it will be him in the next few days but should that not happen and rumours around DM are true you guys may have to just face up to facts like it or not.

It's a rolling 12 month contract, which means it always has 12 months to run.

And I can assure you we won't be sacking him if results don't go our way, that's not what we as a club are about.

I notice you have completely ignored the information I gave you earlier, but if you don't believe me maybe Darren's words will suffice?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/club-gets-darren-moore-whole-boss-his-commitment-doncaster-rovers-2543353

Agreed, it's only a rolling 12 month contract if both parties agree to go forward into a further year.


Those contracts are not subject to renewal though? It is effectively an open ended contract with a provision that means the exposure is only 12 months of contract at the point of redundancy or 12 months of compensation if bought out (ie leaving for another club).

Filo

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #33 on June 27, 2020, 12:26:52 pm by Filo »
Well guys who’d have thought that? Personally I’ve always rated big Darren and thought West Brom were premature dismissing him but fair play to Donny for jumping in for him. Ok Wanderers may be down at the moment but what a great time for someone to come in and turn it around. I’m still confident we will get Evatt but I’d be more than happy with DM. As for would he come? Of course he would. We might be a League lower today but the chance to build something bigger at Bolton must surely appeal and that’s no disrespect to Donny. Anyway, like I say, it will be Evatt this week.

You’ve been corrected on a few points already, but here’s another one, we did n’t jump In for Darren, he applied for the job and went through a structured recruitment process alongside other applicants, he needed to apply, we are not a club that goes out head hunting, we want people to be here because they want to be here, if Darren had n’t applied he would not have got the job. If you think he’ll just walk out on us for the likes of Bolton you’re as deluded as the rest of your fanbase

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #34 on June 27, 2020, 12:35:41 pm by Frankie Rennie »
Not sad at all fire starter, it’s all part of being a fan. I completely agree DM is a man of high principle but the fact is I’m sure that he still has ambitions like the rest of us. I hear what you say about the 12 month rolling contract but that was the same as Parkys with us but it will expire at the end of June and only run on if both parties agree.

I think you’d need to know a little more about the reality of Wanderers financial history before accusing us of living above our means but there’s no doubt big mistakes were made after Big Sam left resulting in where we are now. That’s in the past, we now have new owners who will run the club efficiently but have deep pocketed investors when needed so Darren like any other manager would have the resources need to build to get back to the PL. much as I respect Donny, you can’t compare the potential of the two clubs and the facilities the Bolton manager can work with.

Anyway, hopefully it’s irrelevant, Evatt comes to Bolton and DM continues his plan and we both get to lock horns again the season after next on our way back up, assuming you aren’t relegated of course? 😀

NewDonny

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #35 on June 27, 2020, 12:36:59 pm by NewDonny »
Well of course you can all kid yourself about loyalty and all that but Darren knows that as soon as results go against him he’ll be out like anyone else. That’s football today I’m afraid, dog eat dog, there is no loyalty. Also if his current contract expires at the end of this month as it probably does, then he can leave for nothing so you can forget your silly buy out fees. To be fair most Wanderers fans want Evatt and I’m still confident it will be him in the next few days but should that not happen and rumours around DM are true you guys may have to just face up to facts like it or not.

It's a rolling 12 month contract, which means it always has 12 months to run.

And I can assure you we won't be sacking him if results don't go our way, that's not what we as a club are about.

I notice you have completely ignored the information I gave you earlier, but if you don't believe me maybe Darren's words will suffice?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/club-gets-darren-moore-whole-boss-his-commitment-doncaster-rovers-2543353

Agreed, it's only a rolling 12 month contract if both parties agree to go forward into a further year.


Those contracts are not subject to renewal though? It is effectively an open ended contract with a provision that means the exposure is only 12 months of contract at the point of redundancy or 12 months of compensation if bought out (ie leaving for another club).

There will have been a clause in the contract at around 9 months that would have allowed either party to give notice that they intend to terminate at the 12 month point. If thats has not been invoked by either party then it will roll over in that second year and as you say compensation would be owed for that 12 mont if the contract was then to be terminated for any reason.

Filo

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #36 on June 27, 2020, 12:47:12 pm by Filo »
Well of course you can all kid yourself about loyalty and all that but Darren knows that as soon as results go against him he’ll be out like anyone else. That’s football today I’m afraid, dog eat dog, there is no loyalty. Also if his current contract expires at the end of this month as it probably does, then he can leave for nothing so you can forget your silly buy out fees. To be fair most Wanderers fans want Evatt and I’m still confident it will be him in the next few days but should that not happen and rumours around DM are true you guys may have to just face up to facts like it or not.

It's a rolling 12 month contract, which means it always has 12 months to run.

And I can assure you we won't be sacking him if results don't go our way, that's not what we as a club are about.

I notice you have completely ignored the information I gave you earlier, but if you don't believe me maybe Darren's words will suffice?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/club-gets-darren-moore-whole-boss-his-commitment-doncaster-rovers-2543353

Agreed, it's only a rolling 12 month contract if both parties agree to go forward into a further year.


Those contracts are not subject to renewal though? It is effectively an open ended contract with a provision that means the exposure is only 12 months of contract at the point of redundancy or 12 months of compensation if bought out (ie leaving for another club).

There will have been a clause in the contract at around 9 months that would have allowed either party to give notice that they intend to terminate at the 12 month point. If thats has not been invoked by either party then it will roll over in that second year and as you say compensation would be owed for that 12 mont if the contract was then to be terminated for any reason.

You’re guessing again to try to support your point

selby

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #37 on June 27, 2020, 12:52:34 pm by selby »
  Frankie, it is a good word that mirrors the more chance of seeing rocking horse S**T that you have got of getting Darren Moore

Dagenham Rover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #38 on June 27, 2020, 12:53:16 pm by Dagenham Rover »
I think you will find his contract ALWAYS has 12 months to run whether  its January  August  November   this week, next week  or the week after

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #39 on June 27, 2020, 01:29:15 pm by Frankie Rennie »
Dagenham, we had exactly the same arguments over Parkys contract which was also 12 months rolling but it runs out every year and rolls only if both sides agree, no 9 months agreement, no compensation, just rolled on or not. Sorry but that’s how they work.

Shelby, we don’t want Darren Moore, we want Ian Evatt and to be honest there are others like Ryan Lowe and our own David Lee that we’d put before DM but it’s down to FV and if Evatt won’t come then they may approach Donny or not. Rocking horse doodah is often actually found!!

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #40 on June 27, 2020, 01:30:07 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Well of course you can all kid yourself about loyalty and all that but Darren knows that as soon as results go against him he’ll be out like anyone else. That’s football today I’m afraid, dog eat dog, there is no loyalty. Also if his current contract expires at the end of this month as it probably does, then he can leave for nothing so you can forget your silly buy out fees. To be fair most Wanderers fans want Evatt and I’m still confident it will be him in the next few days but should that not happen and rumours around DM are true you guys may have to just face up to facts like it or not.

It's a rolling 12 month contract, which means it always has 12 months to run.

And I can assure you we won't be sacking him if results don't go our way, that's not what we as a club are about.

I notice you have completely ignored the information I gave you earlier, but if you don't believe me maybe Darren's words will suffice?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/club-gets-darren-moore-whole-boss-his-commitment-doncaster-rovers-2543353

Agreed, it's only a rolling 12 month contract if both parties agree to go forward into a further year.


That agreement is built into the contract when it is originally signed. So the contract has 12 months to run as from today. As it will tomorrow, and the day after that etc. The length of the contract never reduces.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #41 on June 27, 2020, 01:31:28 pm by Frankie Rennie »
Let’s hope we don’t find out eh? Maybe we can both agree on that at least?

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #42 on June 27, 2020, 01:37:01 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Not sad at all fire starter, it’s all part of being a fan. I completely agree DM is a man of high principle but the fact is I’m sure that he still has ambitions like the rest of us. I hear what you say about the 12 month rolling contract but that was the same as Parkys with us but it will expire at the end of June and only run on if both parties agree.

I think you’d need to know a little more about the reality of Wanderers financial history before accusing us of living above our means but there’s no doubt big mistakes were made after Big Sam left resulting in where we are now. That’s in the past, we now have new owners who will run the club efficiently but have deep pocketed investors when needed so Darren like any other manager would have the resources need to build to get back to the PL. much as I respect Donny, you can’t compare the potential of the two clubs and the facilities the Bolton manager can work with.

Anyway, hopefully it’s irrelevant, Evatt comes to Bolton and DM continues his plan and we both get to lock horns again the season after next on our way back up, assuming you aren’t relegated of course? 😀

You can have pockets as deep as you like, but how are they going to get round the salary cap?

DonnyOsmond

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #43 on June 27, 2020, 01:50:05 pm by DonnyOsmond »
Let’s hope we don’t find out eh? Maybe we can both agree on that at least?

Yeah. DM also said he doesn't want to join you so it's a non issue anyway.

IDM

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #44 on June 27, 2020, 01:52:41 pm by IDM »
Dagenham, we had exactly the same arguments over Parkys contract which was also 12 months rolling but it runs out every year and rolls only if both sides agree, no 9 months agreement, no compensation, just rolled on or not. Sorry but that’s how they work.

Shelby, we don’t want Darren Moore, we want Ian Evatt and to be honest there are others like Ryan Lowe and our own David Lee that we’d put before DM but it’s down to FV and if Evatt won’t come then they may approach Donny or not. Rocking horse doodah is often actually found!!

What you are describing sounds like a renewable one year contract. 

A one year rolling contract isn’t a contract that rolls for one year then can be renewed, more a contract which always has one year remaining.  So one agreed today runs out on 26 June 2021, but unless notice is served, that same contract next Saturday would run out on 3 July 2021.

Of course, there may be a time when both parties sit down to renegotiate a contract to amend the terms, but if left untouched it is continuous.

That’s my understanding of it anyway.  Maybe Silent Majority can comment in respect of DRFC - you may not know this Frankie, but he does have the ear of the club, officially.

I may be totally wrong and stand to be corrected.

NewDonny

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #45 on June 27, 2020, 01:57:23 pm by NewDonny »
Well of course you can all kid yourself about loyalty and all that but Darren knows that as soon as results go against him he’ll be out like anyone else. That’s football today I’m afraid, dog eat dog, there is no loyalty. Also if his current contract expires at the end of this month as it probably does, then he can leave for nothing so you can forget your silly buy out fees. To be fair most Wanderers fans want Evatt and I’m still confident it will be him in the next few days but should that not happen and rumours around DM are true you guys may have to just face up to facts like it or not.

It's a rolling 12 month contract, which means it always has 12 months to run.

And I can assure you we won't be sacking him if results don't go our way, that's not what we as a club are about.

I notice you have completely ignored the information I gave you earlier, but if you don't believe me maybe Darren's words will suffice?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/club-gets-darren-moore-whole-boss-his-commitment-doncaster-rovers-2543353

Agreed, it's only a rolling 12 month contract if both parties agree to go forward into a further year.


That agreement is built into the contract when it is originally signed. So the contract has 12 months to run as from today. As it will tomorrow, and the day after that etc. The length of the contract never reduces.

Not sure that's a 12 month rolling contract, its certainly not in the one I use in business anyway. Ordinarily they are for 12 months and roll into a further 12 month term if both parties agree to let it roll forward another year with notice at a particular point.

IDM

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #46 on June 27, 2020, 02:03:36 pm by IDM »
That’s a renewable contract, a bit like your car insurance where the insurer writes to you with a month to go with next year’s quote giving you enough time to decline and go elsewhere, or do nothing and renew automatically.


silent majority

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #47 on June 27, 2020, 02:06:43 pm by silent majority »
I always assumed that a rolling 12 month contract had an automatic 12 months notice built into it, but that appears to be not the case. Even a rolling 12 month contract has a start/end date, and the 12 months rolls on from that. Before that date both parties agree that it will roll on from that date.

I'll ask Gav for some clarification, but this article, which is intended to be aimed at sports personnel describes it as that;

https://www.mikethornton.xyz/rolling-employment-contracts/

IDM

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #48 on June 27, 2020, 02:07:59 pm by IDM »
In that case I stand corrected.

Thanks SM, and apologies to Frankie and NewDonny.

(you still can’t have our Darren though.!!)

NewDonny

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #49 on June 27, 2020, 02:40:07 pm by NewDonny »
I always assumed that a rolling 12 month contract had an automatic 12 months notice built into it, but that appears to be not the case. Even a rolling 12 month contract has a start/end date, and the 12 months rolls on from that. Before that date both parties agree that it will roll on from that date.

I'll ask Gav for some clarification, but this article, which is intended to be aimed at sports personnel describes it as that;

https://www.mikethornton.xyz/rolling-employment-contracts/

Correct.

NewDonny

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #50 on June 27, 2020, 02:40:54 pm by NewDonny »
In that case I stand corrected.

Thanks SM, and apologies to Frankie and NewDonny.

(you still can’t have our Darren though.!!)

NP, we can agree sometimes  :)

Padge_DRFC

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #51 on June 27, 2020, 02:41:45 pm by Padge_DRFC »
Hilarious this Bolton fan talking about getting back in the premier league like it's gonna happen soon. You will not see Bolton there while you're alive again I assure you that. You're not big like Leeds, Sunderland, Portsmouth. Just to name 3 who've dipped to league 1 or below. More a Coventry City do I guess there's some hope of Championship one day.

IDM

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #52 on June 27, 2020, 03:40:16 pm by IDM »
On the contrary, of course Bolton could get back to the premier league - I can’t see them rocketing through the divisions but why the hell not in time.?  Sure, they are not our favourites due to the shenanigans of this season, but that’s no longer relevant.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 05:03:13 pm by IDM »

Dagenham Rover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #53 on June 27, 2020, 03:59:47 pm by Dagenham Rover »
I always assumed that a rolling 12 month contract had an automatic 12 months notice built into it, but that appears to be not the case. Even a rolling 12 month contract has a start/end date, and the 12 months rolls on from that. Before that date both parties agree that it will roll on from that date.

I'll ask Gav for some clarification, but this article, which is intended to be aimed at sports personnel describes it as that;

https://www.mikethornton.xyz/rolling-employment-contracts/


and theres nothing to say that the wording could be along the lines of   "this is a 12 month rolling contract inthat the contract always has 12 months to run" 

just the addition of a few words  this would  cover the club for compensation if he is poached or if the club terminate  him they would possibly have to pay a years salary

Anyway who knows  probably only GB and DM

drfchound

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #54 on June 27, 2020, 04:41:07 pm by drfchound »
Lads, FR is having a laugh.
Don’t take him seriously.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #55 on June 27, 2020, 05:46:46 pm by Frankie Rennie »
Lads, FR is having a laugh.
Don’t take him seriously.

Ha ha you’ve seen through me hound. Genuinely I hope DM stays here and is successful with you as I really like him as a bloke and wish Donny only well. As for Wanderers, it’s been a painful downhill slide since Big Sam left with continuing bad decisions and actions by owners but hopefully we have now hit bottom and can start to look up again. As for Wanderers future, it took us 7 years to get back to the PL last time we were in Div 4 so no reason we shouldn’t repeat that again Padgett with the right set up. Quoting us not as big as Leeds, Sunderland or Portsmouth is a bit childish really because Wanderers have spent more time of their history in the top division than all of them and I don’t mean pre war and have won more than all but Leeds but let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good insult attempt eh? 😊

silent majority

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #56 on June 27, 2020, 06:16:24 pm by silent majority »



I always assumed that a rolling 12 month contract had an automatic 12 months notice built into it, but that appears to be not the case. Even a rolling 12 month contract has a start/end date, and the 12 months rolls on from that. Before that date both parties agree that it will roll on from that date.

I'll ask Gav for some clarification, but this article, which is intended to be aimed at sports personnel describes it as that;

https://www.mikethornton.xyz/rolling-employment-contracts/

OK, just had a quick chat with Gavin, and he has assured me that DM is on a rolling 12 month contract which means that he always has 12 months left. So, my initial assumption was in fact correct and there is no start/end date built into the contract.

Gavin did point out that we have always done it that way, and when we've discussed previous managers and their contracts we've covered this particular topic. (I didn't think I'd invented that part!) It has benefits of course, security for the current manager and the club, but if a manager gets poached away we can then claim compensation from his new club.

Thanks Gav for the clarification!

IDM

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #57 on June 27, 2020, 06:20:30 pm by IDM »
Thanks SM - so my assumption was correct too.!

NickDRFC

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #58 on June 27, 2020, 06:27:13 pm by NickDRFC »
What I don’t like about a 12 month rolling contract is that it doesn’t suggest a great deal of confidence in the manager. If we had a player we thought had a big future in the game we’d try and tie him down to a 3 year contract (like Whiteman) so why do we not do the same with managers? I appreciate that it gives us flexibility and limits potential compensation if we were to sack the manager but given the confidence the fans and board seem to have in Moore would it not make sense to try to tie him down to a longer term contract?

I don’t understand the benefits being that it gives security to Moore and our ability to claim compensation - surely most managers are on longer term deals so there’d be less compensation for us if he was poached and less security for Moore than most jobs? I can’t see many managers having month to month deals and surely the norm is for a couple of years or longer? (Short term deals like Warnock’s with Boro notwithstanding)

StocktonRover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #59 on June 27, 2020, 06:36:35 pm by StocktonRover »
What I don’t like about a 12 month rolling contract is that it doesn’t suggest a great deal of confidence in the manager. If we had a player we thought had a big future in the game we’d try and tie him down to a 3 year contract (like Whiteman) so why do we not do the same with managers? I appreciate that it gives us flexibility and limits potential compensation if we were to sack the manager but given the confidence the fans and board seem to have in Moore would it not make sense to try to tie him down to a longer term contract?

I don’t understand the benefits being that it gives security to Moore and our ability to claim compensation - surely most managers are on longer term deals so there’d be less compensation for us if he was poached and less security for Moore than most jobs? I can’t see many managers having month to month deals and surely the norm is for a couple of years or longer? (Short term deals like Warnock’s with Boro notwithstanding)
It takes both sides to agree a contract, maybe that was the deal that was agreeable to both sides.
Other deals may have suited one side or the other but not both...

 

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