A-Levels

[Filo]

It's an impossible task and they've got a lot right, but also a number wrong, exactly what you'd expect. It's an impossible situation.  I think the weighting for independent schools is questionable, but actually when you compare the rest it overly doesn't look too outrageous.

The big problem is how do you treat the outliers in schools. My school was a failing school with really low grades. I'd have been screwed in this situation.  What they need to do is apply a sensible appeals process and quickly for those examples.  On a whole the numbers look fine, but not analysing each case is wrong in my view.

No offence BFYP but how many times does this government get a pass when they f*ck up because "it's an impossible task" or " it's a tough decision" - blame needs to be apportioned and it needs to start sticking. This government is full of incapable morons, at every level.

To the point where the health secretary blames Public Health England for it’s failings and decides to replace it, does he not realise Public Health England’s failings are his failings as he is health ministet

[SydneyRover]

It's seems to be the way to go, cut the funding then claim whatever it is can't perform then blame it for underperforming.

''Revealed: value of UK pandemic stockpile fell by 40% in six years
 £325m wiped off value of health department’s emergency stockpile including PPE''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

   Interviews with more than 15 people who are familiar with the workings of PHE reveal an array of issues that have bedevilled the Westminster government’s wider handling of the crisis. These include an impulse to centralise, a wariness of engaging with industry and the impact of a decade of fiscal austerity, which has cut the agency’s budget by 40 per cent in the seven years since its inception.

https://www.ft.com/content/e149101a-1c93-4b0a-bc12-14ca8bf11b0e

[ravenrover]

get ready for things to change Boris' old headmaster is now up in arms

[MachoMadness]

Rumours of a u-turn coming at 4pm. Legitimately, I have lost count at these now.

[Filo]

Rumours of a u-turn coming at 4pm. Legitimately, I have lost count at these now.

If a u turn is coming surely  the Education Minister must be sacked

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes. One Oxford college.

I am hoping this will lead to all Oxford & Cambridge Colleges following (although I would have thought that would have started already)

Oxford and Cambridge are in a much better position to do this than other Universities since they already have the results of their entrance examination, interview and school report, and thus already know more about the candidates. IMHO there is no reason or excuse for them not to accept all candidates under offers this year.

[belton rover]

Let’s hope so, Dutch.

[Donnywolf]

Rumours of a u-turn coming at 4pm. Legitimately, I have lost count at these now.

If a u turn is coming surely  the Education Minister must be sacked

All he has been is incompetent dithering and un awe inspiring

Others have been incompetent - lied - possibly taken money for "favours" pretended not to still have another job when serving as an MP (but spotted wearing a Michael Green and Sebastian Fox Badge anyway) and they have been defended and are still in the Cabinet so I wont hold my breath

OK move over Grayling - you will soon have company on that failing bench - although it should be creaking under the weight of several other transgressors

[idler]

Idler, the point I’m making is not every northern student in a large state comprehensive will suffer, despite many claims to the contrary.

If someone puts up a positive link, it can be met with a negative, and vice versa, which shows just that. And just to be clear, I DO think the government have got this wrong, BUT:

1. Not to the point where every working class, northern, large state School student will suffer.

2. Hopefully, this will be rectified quickly.

I understand that belton. My worry is that with already allocating higher than expected numbers of A and A* already allocated to one group they will be reluctant to give as many top grades that are due as it will give a larger number than expected. Whichever way it’s looked at this years grades will appear tainted.

[ravenrover]

We have listened to the British Public etc etc there will be no resignation or sacking ........ yet

[Donnywolf]

Idler, the point I’m making is not every northern student in a large state comprehensive will suffer, despite many claims to the contrary.

If someone puts up a positive link, it can be met with a negative, and vice versa, which shows just that. And just to be clear, I DO think the government have got this wrong, BUT:

1. Not to the point where every working class, northern, large state School student will suffer.

2. Hopefully, this will be rectified quickly.

I understand that belton. My worry is that with already allocating higher than expected numbers of A and A* already allocated to one group they will be reluctant to give as many top grades that are due as it will give a larger number than expected. Whichever way it’s looked at this years grades will appear tainted.

Maybe last years Students will now start complaining that this years lot have "over qualified" them - and next years lot will demand parity with this years students

These days you never know

[belton rover]

Well done, Bozzer. You got this wrong with your maths and statistics, like other countries, but now you’ve set it right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler, the point I’m making is not every northern student in a large state comprehensive will suffer, despite many claims to the contrary.

If someone puts up a positive link, it can be met with a negative, and vice versa, which shows just that. And just to be clear, I DO think the government have got this wrong, BUT:

1. Not to the point where every working class, northern, large state School student will suffer.

2. Hopefully, this will be rectified quickly.

Belton

You're an odd one. Clearly very intelligent, yet determined to misrepresent what others say, making intelligent discussion impossible.

No-one has said that every working class kid will suffer.

You haven't once accepted that SOME are doing.

You DO know the difference between the particular and the general don't you? I bloody hope so if you are an examiner.

[wilts rover]

Definately the right thing to do. No way should thousands of A-level & GCSE pupils have been marked down because of the school they went to.

As to whether you think Cummings, Johnson & Williamson did this because they thought it was the right thing to do when on Friday they said it wasn't, well...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Absolutely the right thing to do.

I wonder if they'd have done it if there hadn't been a groundswell of anger about the original decision?

[DonnyOsmond]

I find myself growing increasingly frustrated with Starmer on this issue. He's written an article in the Mail today (which I'm not linking to because f**k them), which seems to have annoyed everyone a across the political spectrum. Now he's pushing for kids to be back in school next month "no ifs, no buts". Near silence from his education secretary, too. It comes across as a complete lack of leadership on the issue, and that he's more interested in mildly scolding the government whatever they do. Whoever's advising him needs a kick up the arse. Some clarification is needed urgently.

I say this as someone who voted for him and has supported him whole heartedly til now, even as he seems to be fudging every one of his election manifesto promises.

The problem Starmer has got is being f**ked over by the far left of his party. I can’t fathom them out, they’d sooner dish dirt on Starmer and make Labour unelectable than pull together against a far right party

Didn't the Centrists do the same to Corbyn though?

[belton rover]

Idler, the point I’m making is not every northern student in a large state comprehensive will suffer, despite many claims to the contrary.

If someone puts up a positive link, it can be met with a negative, and vice versa, which shows just that. And just to be clear, I DO think the government have got this wrong, BUT:

1. Not to the point where every working class, northern, large state School student will suffer.

2. Hopefully, this will be rectified quickly.

Belton

You're an odd one. Clearly very intelligent, yet determined to misrepresent what others say, making intelligent discussion impossible.

No-one has said that every working class kid will suffer.

You haven't once accepted that SOME are doing.

You DO know the difference between the particular and the general don't you? I bloody hope so if you are an examiner.

You see now you are getting personal, Billy. You are not in ANY position to question my professional responsibilities or duties, or skill. I was reluctant to  say I was an examiner, but was a little frustrated that you and others politely told me that my views about qualifications weren’t respected because I didn’t include links from the Guardian/Twitter/BBC etc. This very response shows why I was reluctant. You are embarrassing.

Oh, and the post you comment on was clearly directed to Idler, who responded respectfully and thoughtfully.


By the way, I’m not sure if you are aware, but the government have realised the exam results error and have reacted swiftly and correctly to put this right. That’s what we ALL wanted


Isn’t it?

[wilts rover]

Ohh Aye, some more detail coming through now. So this change will apply to A-Levels and GCSE but not BTEC students.

They don't sit BTEC's in public schools do they...

[MachoMadness]

I do wonder what it would take for someone to get actually sacked from this cabinet. Thing is I'm not remotely surprised he's still in post.

[belton rover]

Ohh Aye, some more detail coming through now. So this change will apply to A-Levels and GCSE but not BTEC students.

They don't sit BTEC's in public schools do they...

I could get used to this ‘provide a link’ game, Wilts.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/btec-courses-a-level-reforms-trigger-rise-in-private-schools-practical-qualifications-kw7f3wtld

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

I'm sorry that I've obviously upset you but you're consistently setting up straw men to argue against.

1) To my knowledge, NO-ONE has said that every working class kid would have been disadvantaged. I've no idea why you chose to say that many people have been saying that.

2) I didn't say that your views on examining weren't respected because you didn't include links. That is a genuinely bizarre thing to claim. I said that your comments on how the assessment of papers can be challenged in normal times wasn't relevant to the current problem in hand.

You might want to reflect on why you are so badly misrepresenting other people on here. It really doesn't help discussions.

As for the Govt change of policy, yes I have seen it and I'm very pleased that has happened. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I wonder whether it would have happened without the groundswell of anger against the obvious unfairness, of which this thread has been a tiny contribution.

[albie]

Belton,

"I was reluctant to  say I was an examiner, but was a little frustrated that you and others politely told me that my views about qualifications weren’t respected because I didn’t include links from the Guardian/Twitter/BBC etc".

With respect, you were not asked to do that.

I asked you to give a reason for your position, and if it is possible to show the basis for that belief. That might be a link to a reputable source backing your argument.

This is completely normal, to show how you get to the view you hold, and to act as food for thought for those who hold a different view.

I am still struggling to understand WHY you think some of the things you have posted. The evidence seems to me weighted against you.

In search of clarity fella...that's all!

[belton rover]

Billy, I said you had no respect for my views on qualifications (the topic of this thread). You talked about lack of respect BEFORE I informed you I was an examiner. And you lecture about reading posts before responding.

As for misrepresentation. I disagree with almost everything you have said about these results. Every one of your links is biased, of course it is because that is how you want people to think: like you, and thank you for it. So, as I disagree with most your biased opinion, I have counteracted that with other links and opinions.
THAT is what makes a debate. I’m sure you could scroll through pages and pages of your links to answer this, but I don’t recall you giving any evidence where working class, northern students of large state schools benefited from this. And that’s because it didn’t fit your agenda.


Oh by the way, Billy, I don’t know if you are aware, but the government have backtracked now so we are all getting what we wanted.


Aren’t we?

[wilts rover]

Belton

As I wrote a few minutes ago No, 'we' are not all getting what 'we' want. You might be getting what you want but if you are a BTEC student you have had your exam grade marked by an algorithm marked by a computer programme the government has decided is not fit for purpose. Why?

[belton rover]

Absolutely the right thing to do.

I wonder if they'd have done it if there hadn't been a groundswell of anger about the original decision?

Apologies, Billy, I missed this - I’m not used to you writing two short paragraphs.

Still, the ‘but’ paragraph was much longer than the ‘right decision’ one.

[wilts rover]

Ohh Aye, some more detail coming through now. So this change will apply to A-Levels and GCSE but not BTEC students.

They don't sit BTEC's in public schools do they...

I could get used to this ‘provide a link’ game, Wilts.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/btec-courses-a-level-reforms-trigger-rise-in-private-schools-practical-qualifications-kw7f3wtld

That's good, it will give more validity to the BTEC.

Thanks for the link. Not that I wouldn't have believed you without providing evidence of course...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.
The issue you refer to on respect of opinions wasn't about the A-Level shambles. It was about your much more general approach of not criticising the Govt. Specifically, your opinion that the Govt had done OK in 2020.

Here's my post.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=277450.msg980528#msg980528

I clearly said that I didn't respect your general opinion not because it was wrong, but because it was given without reasoning to support it. I have that opinion about anyone's opinions given without justification - mine included.

I wouldn't dream of questioning your more detailed knowledge of the examination process. In fact I explicitly referred to your "considerable knowledge" on that topic.

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=277450.msg980785#msg980785

PS. I still stand by my take that although your argument about appeals in normal times comes from a far more informed position than my own, it was meaningless ("irrelevant" would have been a slightly less unpleasant word) in this case because the problem wasn't assessment of papers, it was reprofiling of the marks across the board.

[belton rover]

So Billy, if I post a link from an openly biased source, that would give my own opinion more credibility?

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes. One Oxford college.
[/quote

I am hoping this will lead to all Oxford & Cambridge Colleges following (although I would have thought that would have started already)

Oxford and Cambridge are in a much better position to do this than other Universities since they already have the results of their entrance examination, interview and school report, and thus already know more about the candidates. IMHO there is no reason or excuse for them not to accept all candidates under offers this year.

Currently 5 colleges have said they will honour all offers, so hopefully eventually they all will. The Government u-turn to IMHO the only acceptable solution, will mean surely that nearly every one will make the grades, but maybe there were a small number where the predicted grades were not enough, and hopefully they will be accepted as well.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dutch.

That's all very well for Oxford and very laudible.

Further down the chain, Russell Group Universities have little wiggle room, hence these stories.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53808233

It truly beggars belief that over 5 months, someone at OfQual or the Govt hasn't seen this coming.