A-Levels

[i_ateallthepies]

Do you not accept the Tories are morons or do you not accept it's because the Tories are morons?

[Donnywolf]

Williamson - it could be worse. Remember he was Defence Secretary then got sacked for leaking stuff to the press and telling Russia to "shut up and go away"

Here are more of the gaffes of the man they called Private Pike

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gavin-williamson-sacked-huawei-leak-scandal-defence-secretary-a8896606.html

[albie]

Good explainer from Chris Giles of the FT on the problems with the AI;
https://www.ft.com/video/282ecd1f-8402-4bf4-8ee7-3d179ce5fcc2

Free to view, 5 mins.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think it's better to use both. Working under pressure is fine but how do you work on routine things when the pressure is off?

You're probably right.

Billy

If we asked everyone on here where DRFC are going to finish next season, some are going to get it right. Most will get it wrong. All will use either heart or head to form an opinion, or both. Some will use facts and statistics to help them decide - even they would come up with different answers.

Of course people were saying this exam system would not work. Just like different people were saying it would.

You’re wrong about the uproar having nothing to do with hindsight. How many voices do you think were saying it wouldn’t work in March compared to those now saying ‘I told you so’ (or words to that effect, of course).

Belton.

I haven't got the foggiest which of my posts you are responding to here, but I'm sure it made sense to you

I’m not surprised, Billy, what with me being ‘odd’.

Let me explain:
This fictional notion you have that ‘people’ (whoever they are) were saying In March this issue with the exams was always going to happen, so no question that any of this uproar has anything do do with hindsight.

With me so far?



Whenever predictions are made, someone will be proved right, that doesn’t mean everyone Knew what would happen, just that some may have guessed right.

Still with me?

I saw very little evidence that ‘people’ predicted this at all.

Perhaps the football metaphor was too much for you to contend with, so let’s try this:

Imagine this forum is a microcosm for ‘people’.
From March 18th, into April. I can’t find a single post from ‘people’ about the system never working and favouring the rich, and all these things you are suggesting were said. Fast forward to after the event, and everyone has an opinion (not literally, before you take me to task on misrepresentation).

Your desperation to try and claw back some respectability is not a good look.

Belton.

I've no idea who these "people" are who you are referring to. I've also no idea why you directed that post at me.

May I make a polite suggestion and recommend that you read my posts a few times before responding to them? Only, it's just that this is now the third or fourth time in this thread that you seem to have convinced yourself that I've said something that I haven't.

[BillyStubbsTears]

‘Much easier to write pseudo-intellectual mad ramblings on a blog than actually get the process of government right.‘

Ha ha, Billy, it certainly is! You won’t enter politics for real, will you?

Nope.

I knew someone as an undergraduate who went into politics. Lovely lad but thick as a bucket of monkey spunk. He's now a senior Tory backbencher.

Another undergraduate colleague became a Labour junior minister under Blair. She was passionate and committed but far from the sharpest knife in the box.

I realised from those days I didn't have what those two had that made them favourites to get on in politics.

[belton rover]

I think it's better to use both. Working under pressure is fine but how do you work on routine things when the pressure is off?

You're probably right.

Billy

If we asked everyone on here where DRFC are going to finish next season, some are going to get it right. Most will get it wrong. All will use either heart or head to form an opinion, or both. Some will use facts and statistics to help them decide - even they would come up with different answers.

Of course people were saying this exam system would not work. Just like different people were saying it would.

You’re wrong about the uproar having nothing to do with hindsight. How many voices do you think were saying it wouldn’t work in March compared to those now saying ‘I told you so’ (or words to that effect, of course).

Belton.

I haven't got the foggiest which of my posts you are responding to here, but I'm sure it made sense to you

I’m not surprised, Billy, what with me being ‘odd’.

Let me explain:
This fictional notion you have that ‘people’ (whoever they are) were saying In March this issue with the exams was always going to happen, so no question that any of this uproar has anything do do with hindsight.

With me so far?



Whenever predictions are made, someone will be proved right, that doesn’t mean everyone Knew what would happen, just that some may have guessed right.

Still with me?

I saw very little evidence that ‘people’ predicted this at all.

Perhaps the football metaphor was too much for you to contend with, so let’s try this:

Imagine this forum is a microcosm for ‘people’.
From March 18th, into April. I can’t find a single post from ‘people’ about the system never working and favouring the rich, and all these things you are suggesting were said. Fast forward to after the event, and everyone has an opinion (not literally, before you take me to task on misrepresentation).

Your desperation to try and claw back some respectability is not a good look.

Belton.

I've no idea who these "people" are who you are referring to. I've also no idea why you directed that post at me.

May I make a polite suggestion and recommend that you read my posts a few times before responding to them? Only, it's just that this is now the third or fourth time in this thread that you seem to have convinced yourself that I've said something that I haven't.

‘That for me is the frightening thing - that unlike the criticism over Covid where a lot of "hindsight" could be applied here is a situation that people are pointing out was known about from March‘

How am I supposed to know who the people are? You are the one saying they knew about it in March. Unless you didn't mean people.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

Like I said, I strongly suggest you read what I write several times before you respond.

I assume this is the post you are referring to?

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=277450.msg981312#msg981312

[wilts rover]

If this really was set up to deliberately benefit the rich (and I don’t think it was, but I really don’t know), then ANY government would expect a backlash like this. If that’s the case then why the almost immediate U turn?

And I don’t accept it’s because the Tories are morons.

Did you not see the recent honours list? Peerages given out to IRA apologists and relatives of KGB agents - not for what they have done for the country but for what they have done for Boris Johnson & Dominic Cummings.

This government do not care. They got the results they wanted - priority university application for their friends and donors children - so what if they then overturn something they said they wouldn't - let someone else sort the next problem out.

Why did they overturn it? Focus groups. Everything this government does is measured. Do people in the Red Wall seats like this? No, scrap it. There's always someone else to defect the blame on.

[belton rover]

Well as that is the post I partly quoted then yes. I am going now pre-empt your ‘I never said that‘ speech you’re so fond of. You have suggested that this debacle was foreseen in March, therefore the uproar since the results came out cannot be views made with hindsight. Yes, you didn’t use the word ‘people‘ in that part of the sentence, it was a word or two before that.
Who or what (if it wasn’t ‘people’) knew what was going to happen in March, to such a level that hindsight isn’t a thing here?

Phew!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

I've given you several hints but this is getting embarrassing and boring now so I'll be blunt.

I didn't say that.

DW did.

Go and read the post that you are quoting. And when you've done that, maybe you should pause and ponder why you are so determined to read into my posts things I have never said.

[belton rover]

Billy. I see my error - too many quotes and requotes. I apologise unreservedly for confusing you with DW. In my defence, you agreed with him so my question still stands, for DW and yourself.

However, it was rather immature of you play silly games when I directly misquoted you. You must have realised I was making a genuine error, but, hey-ho, I knew what I was dealing with. You’re good without ammunition, so to hand you the gun and the bullet...

[Donnywolf]

Easy from my point of view to explain as my op was not that clear

Many many things happened during the (ongoing) Pandemic and the Government got some things right and some things wrong - and it involved a lot of "fire fighting" for example having not many and the wrong type of PPE for example. So people can criticise them for a lot of things as they were acting in hindsight

Clearly once the Government closed Schools to lots of Students and made it clear there could be no Examinations as in normal years then "people" like the Ministers and the Civil Servants and the Press knew something would need to be put in place

Ergo "people" knew there was a problem to be solved in the distance and I am surprised that they had all that time and presided over what to my lay persons eye looks a bloody (and continuing) mess

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

Apology unnecessary.

It's an easy mistake to make. I've done it myself many times.

Ordinarily, I'd have left it at that. But given that you caveated your apology with a "yeah but you do think that anyway", I suggest now that you should go back and carefully read what DW actually said, and what I responded "Aye" to. And then think really hard whether this entire exchange could have been avoided.

Actually, f**k it. Life's too short. I'll explain.

DW did NOT say that people on here had been pointing this out for 5 months. He said, clearly and unambiguously that people on here have pointed out that the Govt knew about this issue 5 months ago.

He said "here is a situation that people are pointing out was known about from March".

Not, "here is a situation that people having been pointing since March."

Maybe now that is clear, you'll pay me a little bit of respect by refraining from putting words in my mouth and ideas in my head that have never been there, but that you seem to have a need to be what I think and say.

[belton rover]

‘Much easier to write pseudo-intellectual mad ramblings on a blog than actually get the process of government right.‘

Ha ha, Billy, it certainly is! You won’t enter politics for real, will you?

Nope.

I knew someone as an undergraduate who went into politics. Lovely lad but thick as a bucket of monkey spunk. He's now a senior Tory backbencher.

Another undergraduate colleague became a Labour junior minister under Blair. She was passionate and committed but far from the sharpest knife in the box.

I realised from those days I didn't have what those two had that made them favourites to get on in politics.

So you’re sticking to writing  ‘pseudo-intellectual mad ramblings on a blog’ (or off shoot of a football forum) ‘than actually get the process of government right’, then?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep. You got a problem with that?

[belton rover]

Belton.

Apology unnecessary.

It's an easy mistake to make. I've done it myself many times.

Ordinarily, I'd have left it at that. But given that you caveated your apology with a "yeah but you do think that anyway", I suggest now that you should go back and carefully read what DW actually said, and what I responded "Aye" to. And then think really hard whether this entire exchange could have been avoided.

Actually, f**k it. Life's too short. I'll explain.

DW did NOT say that people on here had been pointing this out for 5 months. He said, clearly and unambiguously that people on here have pointed out that the Govt knew about this issue 5 months ago.

He said "here is a situation that people are pointing out was known about from March".

Not, "here is a situation that people having been pointing since March."

Maybe now that is clear, you'll pay me a little bit of respect by refraining from putting words in my mouth and ideas in my head that have never been there, but that you seem to have a need to be what I think and say.

And in that response, not a single mention of the word ‘hindsight’, the whole point of that quote.

[belton rover]

Yep. You got a problem with that?

I haven’t, but it clears a few things up. Although the Labour Party, who you seem to be unofficially representing might have.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep. You got a problem with that?

I haven’t, but it clears a few things up. Although the Labour Party, who you seem to be unofficially representing might have.

It was a rhetorical question.

[belton rover]

Was it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

Apology unnecessary.

It's an easy mistake to make. I've done it myself many times.

Ordinarily, I'd have left it at that. But given that you caveated your apology with a "yeah but you do think that anyway", I suggest now that you should go back and carefully read what DW actually said, and what I responded "Aye" to. And then think really hard whether this entire exchange could have been avoided.

Actually, f**k it. Life's too short. I'll explain.

DW did NOT say that people on here had been pointing this out for 5 months. He said, clearly and unambiguously that people on here have pointed out that the Govt knew about this issue 5 months ago.

He said "here is a situation that people are pointing out was known about from March".

Not, "here is a situation that people having been pointing since March."

Maybe now that is clear, you'll pay me a little bit of respect by refraining from putting words in my mouth and ideas in my head that have never been there, but that you seem to have a need to be what I think and say.

And in that response, not a single mention of the word ‘hindsight’, the whole point of that quote.

You've picked a very odd hill on which to make a sacrifice your self-respect and I've given you many opportunities to make a gracious withdrawal but it just goes on.

DW's "hindsight" comment meant that the Govt knew in advance precisely the problem they had with the exams, whereas they had (and have frequently used) the excuse on other COVID issues that they didn't know in advance what the problems were going to be.

That's so obvious, it's embarrassing to have to point it out.

You seem utterly determined to convince yourself that I'm acting in bad faith here and frankly it's embarrassing.

Why are you determined not to accept that I'm being honest and transparent? 

[belton rover]

Because I don’t believe you are.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep. You got a problem with that?

I haven’t, but it clears a few things up. Although the Labour Party, who you seem to be unofficially representing might have.

Seriously though, you've got three options really haven't you?

1) Ignore me as an impotent rambler.

2) Engage in the merit of the subject being discussed, like folk used to do at the pit head or in the Miners' Welfare, where politics was picked over.

3) Assume that the person you are engaging with is an insincere t**t who needs to be tripped up.

Odd that anyone would ever waste their time on choosing option 3, but plenty do seem to do in here.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because I don’t believe you are.

And you base that opinion on?

[SydneyRover]

If this really was set up to deliberately benefit the rich (and I don’t think it was, but I really don’t know), then ANY government would expect a backlash like this. If that’s the case then why the almost immediate U turn?

And I don’t accept it’s because the Tories are morons.

It's unconscious bias?

[belton rover]

Yep. You got a problem with that?

I haven’t, but it clears a few things up. Although the Labour Party, who you seem to be unofficially representing might have.

Seriously though, you've got three options really haven't you?

1) Ignore me as an impotent rambler.

2) Engage in the merit of the subject being discussed, like folk used to do at the pit head or in the Miners' Welfare, where politics was picked over.

3) Assume that the person you are engaging with is an insincere t**t who needs to be tripped up.

Odd that anyone would ever waste their time on choosing option 3, but plenty do seem to do in here.

I’d like to pick No2, but you made it clear that I needed to understand internet debates and attempted to ridicule me when I mis-read a back log of quotes. Not really miners’ welfare conversation.

[SydneyRover]

I know it’s hindsight but surely somebody should have used the algorithms on last year’s results to see how drastic the changes would be.
They would have had something to compare and estimate how accurate or not this year’s results were likely to be. It would have saved a lot of trouble and a further lack of trust in those responsible.

Can we use an algorithm to predict the next cock-up, do we need to?

[belton rover]

‘Odd that anyone would ever waste their time on choosing option 3, but plenty do seem to do in here.‘

Why is that, do you think?

That’s not a rhetorical question.

‘Politics picked over in the miners’ welfare’.

I‘m assuming you mean a typical South Yorkshire miners’ welfare in the 1970s/80s.

That wouldn’t have been politics picked over. It would have been (quite rightfully so) an almost 100% agreement that Thatcher was an Evil witch and ALL Conservatives were bas**rds. Everyone in the room would think the same (if they didn’t, they would be in serious, actual trouble.

So no, this isn’t the place for that, but I think you, relatively speaking, wish it was.

[Donnywolf]

DW.

Aye. 5 months to sort this out and what a prize ominishambles it is.

Oh aye. By the way. The same Govt has 4 months to sort out our post-Brexit deal with the EU.

Nowt to worry about there then, eh?

Your "omnishambles" has been taken up by the Metro. Glad to see at least one part of Print media is noticing the current situation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-53829638

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

My apologies if you think I tried to ridicule you. What I intended to do was to point out your consistent misinterpretation of what I said and think. Something you have done consistently throughout this thread and not once backtracked on or apologised for. I do not understand why you have done that from the off, despite me pointing it out numerous times. And I admit, it does get wearing and I may have responded tetchily. If I overstepped the mark in they way I pointed that out, and that has caused offence, I apologise 100%.

I suggest we discuss this by PM from now as I'm sure it is boring everyone else.

[belton rover]

Billy.
I can only form an opinion on what you think by the things you say and the vocabulary you use to say it. If that is a misrepresentation, then I suggest you choose your words more carefully.

Maybe its because internet debate only allows someone to form an opinion through that one medium. I’m not suggesting you or I are keyboard warriors, but it is a haven for false representation; sometimes deliberate, sometimes not.

If I have ever or ever in the future misrepresent or misjudge your thoughts, then I apologise. But remember my judgement only comes from the words you write.

I’m with you on boring other posters, although I have found similar differences in the past to be juicy reads. Perhaps this one has gone one too long.

Finally, with the greatest of respect, I have no intention of continuing ANY discussion on here through PM.