Will there be a deal with the EU

[Glyn_Wigley]

I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .

There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .

We voted to leave not compromise .

But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.

They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .

WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?

So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .

The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .

Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .

What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?

As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.

How on earth can what the french believe be irrelevant in trade negotiations when we will shortly have control over our waters as to who fishes here and more to the point where that fish is sold .

It's also relevant because the UK exports the fish it catches and imports the fish we eat .

That's called trade I believe .

We're talking about deals, not negotiations.

PS We've already sold control of our waters so, no, we won't get it back like you think we will. It certainly isn't up for any negotiations.

The argument is about where foreign boats land their catch .

Clearly if they are forced by UK regulation to land their catch in the UK then clearly we gain the economic benefit .

UK regulations can force no such thing. Go look up UK waters fishing quotas, FFS.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

[Not Now Kato]

I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .

There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .

We voted to leave not compromise .

But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.

They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .

WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?

So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .

The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .

Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .

Because we sold the rights to fish in 'our waters' many years ago for a quick buck.  Something we're really good, (bad actually), at....
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52420116
 
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/
 
But hey, Brexiters can't see the wood for the trees - it was always thus!  Give em a few sound-bites, chuck in a few lies, and they'll follow like sheep!
 
I'm lucky, I'm well cushioned from the probable effects of a no deal Brexit, but part of me actually wants it to be No Deal just so the crazy less well off fcukwits who voted for it can find out just exactly what they voted for!  The other, much larger part of me, hopes that the government will come to its senses and strike a deal so that these same less well off people won't have to suffer any more than they are actually doing right now.

[Not Now Kato]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

Best complain about this then....
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54972671
 
I wonder why English folk aren't clamouring to take on this kind of work?  Maybe you'd like to volunteer seeing as you seem to be opposed to them coming here to do the jobs local people won't?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

Do you have any Irish Catholic heritage?

One half of my family came over from Ireland 130 years ago in a tsunami of immigrants who came and worked down the pit. They transformed communities' social background in a matter of years. To a far larger extent than

[tyke1962]

Perhaps we should permanently shut down Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants and protect our culture!

That's exactly the kind of extreme statement to back up your beliefs that will keep Labour out of power for a long long time .

That's exactly the type of attitude that led to Tory votes in the red wall .

We've had Chinese , Indian and Italian restaurants in the UK for as long as I can remember and none of them ever threatened the social fabric of communities what so ever .

In comparison to mass migration at the speed we've seen and the impact on the social fabric of communities your post is absolutely laughable .

The local Chinese changed the social fabric of Darfield , don't think so .

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

Do you have any Irish Catholic heritage?

One half of my family came over from Ireland 130 years ago in a tsunami of immigrants who came and worked down the pit. They transformed communities' social background in a matter of years. To a far larger extent than

Not sure what comparison I'm supposed to draw from that Billy given I wasn't born 130 years ago and I'm sure you'd agree we live in totally different times today .

Then again I've never understood why Labour people such as yourself tied themselves in to market economics and neoliberalism which is what the EU is all about .

[Not Now Kato]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
 
Very revealing about you!

[River Don]

Easy for Michael Caine to say that, when he's never going to be a poor servant.

I humbly suggest that those who say this is about principle rather than wealth have not internalised what a 10% loss in GDP over an extended period will mean to their day to day lives.

I understand, anything that pulls back the rate of growth will hit those at the bottom of the ladder most. So it's in everyone's interest to see growth, growth, growth. Stay in the EU and engage with it for maximise growth, nothing else matters. Except we have never seen economic growth without a corresponding increase in carbon emissions and year in year out emissions grow. Not fall a little bit, not even stabilise.

I don't want to see people suffer but it means we're stuck on this treadmill of growth on a road to nowhere. It really makes me feel weary. It's depressing.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Was that a "yes" or a "no" Tyke?

I'm saying that, if you yourself, as I am, are a product of mass economic migration, you perhaps have a responsibility to ponder on that before voting for economic harm to be imposed on you and yours because you dislike economic migration.

You are saying that you don't like your community being changed. Neither did the Anglo-Saxon "native" (sic) residents of Denaby and Conisbrough, the kids of whom used to throw half setters at us "Fenians" as we walked to our Fenian school in the 70s. That experience colours my take on how we see "The Other".

My take is also coloured by the fact that one of my kids' grandfathers came to London as an economic migrant in 1972. He's the sort who you instinctively wouldn't have wanted in your community. He actually became a central figure in the social and cultural life of his area of town, setting up youth clubs, Sunday schools and street parties. I'd prefer him as a neighbour than many "ethnic English" (sic) that I actually grew up living next to.

My take? Economic migration has always happened, will always happen, and is generally, on balance, with obvious frictions along the way, a net positive for both the migrant and the recipient country. Culturally, economically and socially.

Finally, you are totally changing the subject talking about the EU's economic philosophy, but I'll answer. There's not going to be a socialist revolution anytime soon. We live in a capitalist economic society. Given that we do, I want the worst excesses of capitalism reined in and controlled. I want workers' rights enshrined in law. Environmental controls. Health and safety legislation to protect people from abuse. The EU has underwritten all that across a continent that has been riven by conflict and exploitation of workers and the environment for centuries.

The Bennites who hate the EU because it seems to be the block to socialism are away with the fairies. And dangerously so, because, in indulging their principles, like you did, they have cut us adrift from that protection and given our futures to Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Raab. For them to mold how they want, without the limitations set on them by the EU.

You will insist that you have done nothing of the sort, but just take a step back and look at the situation dispassionately and it is precisely what you have done.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
 
Very revealing about you!

Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .

Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .

If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .

To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .

[River Don]

I watched Countryfile this evening. They explained how the government plans to shake up the planning system and basically do away with the green belt. It's all ok though. It turns out farm land isn't particularly green. We can build over a shit load of it just so long as we plant a few trees and create some wild parkland.

 I thought it sounded like a load of balls, since basically it means we pour a whole load more concrete over green space. But we're going to need to do this to accommodate the required growth which is vital. After all we need much more of this economic migration. The government are basically going to set up growth zones where local residents concerns can be ignored so the builders can let rip. That should go down well in leafy Oxfordshire, which is one site earmarked for this.

[Bentley Bullet]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
 
Very revealing about you!

Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .

Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .

If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .

To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .

You're not alone Tyke. They've used racism as their 'joker' card all along.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Perhaps we should permanently shut down Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants and protect our culture!

That's exactly the kind of extreme statement to back up your beliefs that will keep Labour out of power for a long long time .

That's exactly the type of attitude that led to Tory votes in the red wall .

We've had Chinese , Indian and Italian restaurants in the UK for as long as I can remember and none of them ever threatened the social fabric of communities what so ever .

In comparison to mass migration at the speed we've seen and the impact on the social fabric of communities your post is absolutely laughable .

The local Chinese changed the social fabric of Darfield , don't think so .

I was taking the piss because that's where your logic eventually ends.

So let me get this right...the people who own, run and staff non-British food establishments and therefore also live in our communities don't change British culture in any way even though they must sell a lot of their non-British muck to make a living from it; it's the ones who don't work in food establishments but live in our communities that somehow 'change the social fabric', whatever that's supposed to be a euphemism for. Is that right?

Burnt your telly yet?

[Janso]

Good thing we don't have huge communities of Brits living in foreign towns and cities, isn't it.

[Bentley Bullet]

Good thing we don't have huge communities of Brits living in foreign towns and cities, isn't it.

It is! There were almost three times more EU immigrants living in the UK than Brits living elsewhere in the entire EU.

[SydneyRover]

Almost everything about the so-called british culture is imported from tobacco and spuds to tea, coffee, spices and people.

Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry
 
Analysis over 20 years reveals heavy Anglo-Saxon influence, with French and Danish DNA coming from earlier migrations than the Normans or Vikings.

There is no 'our' culture it's a shared culture.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry

[scawsby steve]

Almost everything about the so-called british culture is imported from tobacco and spuds to tea, coffee, spices and people.

Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry
 
Analysis over 20 years reveals heavy Anglo-Saxon influence, with French and Danish DNA coming from earlier migrations than the Normans or Vikings.

There is no 'our' culture it's a shared culture.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry

I disagree Sydney. People from Scawsby have pure noble blood.

[River Don]

The name Scawsby has Scandinavian origins.

It probably began as a Danish farmstead.

[Not Now Kato]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
 
Very revealing about you!

Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .

Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .

If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .

To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .

I never mentioned racism Tyke. I asked a streighforward question to which you obfuscated rather than answered. The answer was simple, either Yes or No. I note also that you avoided both of my previous posts - speaks volumes about you really. If anyone isn't worth the bother it's you Tyke. Pity we don't have an ignore function on this forum - you'd certainly be on it.

[drfchound]

NNK, you do have the option to ignore a poster.

[Bentley Bullet]

The name Scawsby has Scandinavian origins.

It probably began as a Danish farmstead.

Does that mean we'll still get Danish bacon?

[River Don]

The name Scawsby has Scandinavian origins.

It probably began as a Danish farmstead.

Does that mean we'll still get Danish bacon?

I expect so, Danish bacon is factory farmed and exported widely. I doubt they stop importing it into the UK, it might become a bit more expensive though. You're be better off going to a local butcher and paying a bit more for some better quality local stuff anyway.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes, buy British, because British is best!

[River Don]

When it comes to bacon, British isn't a bad bet. Perhaps better advice is expect locally produced food from a smaller, local producer to be of higher quality. Wherever you happen to be.

[Bentley Bullet]

So, not much change there then?

[River Don]

Buying local can be more expensive, so don't expected much change. No.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Tyke.

What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?

Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .

I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
 
Very revealing about you!

Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .

Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .

If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .

To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .

I'm not doing that, I'm exposing your crap logic for what it is - crap logic. If you think by doing so I'm trying to label anyone as racist you can f**k yourself.

Saying that's what I'm doing is a good way for you to avoid addressing the issue, though, isn't it?

[Bentley Bullet]

Buying local can be more expensive, so don't expected much change. No.

Buying from a local producer is more expensive now, so not much change then.

[Ldr]

Everyone's descended from immigrants, its just a matter of how far back you go