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Author Topic: New manager?  (Read 8642 times)

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scawsby steve

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #30 on April 06, 2021, 05:50:34 pm by scawsby steve »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.



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silent majority

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #31 on April 06, 2021, 06:14:55 pm by silent majority »
Just checking the contracts for the first team. 20 contracts expire before the end of may or June this year.

And to quote the club when DM left and AB was appointed:

Our ambitions remain to achieve a top-six finish and we hope and expect that Andy will use this time to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season.

“Andy’s first priority will be to halt the team’s recent run of poor form and put our season back on track



As I've mentioned elsewhere the club, players and their agents, have all held discussions and decisions will  be made later based on the various requirements that suit each individual situation. There's no disagreements, just that some players will wait and see what happens over the next few weeks. That suits us too.


I was just casting my mind forward to the future SM.  Player contracts for any manager, be it AB or a new incumbent is something that will need sorting as a priority.
I was also looking at contracts in the context of the club statement, relating to Andys position. The statement eludes to an expectation of him being around next season.
Interesting your ref to agents. Football would be a much better place without them don’t you think? I rate them the same as I rate estate agents. And that’s not very high.


A couple of points nr.

I think there's been some misunderstanding about AB and any responsibility for renewing contracts, I don't think it's ever been stated by the club that he would be doing it. He may have mentioned it himself but my understanding is that GB, DB and Adam Henshall are dealing with that side of things. It's a possibility of course that the club may want input from any new manager if one comes in, and that would make sense as well.

As for agents!! Jeez, they've caused this club more problems in the last few years than I care to mention. They get in players (and managers) ears and really upset the apple cart. They should be done away with.

selby

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #32 on April 06, 2021, 06:25:21 pm by selby »
  Steve, unlikely I know on current form but if and it's a big big if we do go on a run of wins to the end of the season and do sneak in the playoffs the same people wanting him sacked would kiss his ass who are asking for his head now, and it seems I have to include you in that number.

silent majority

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #33 on April 06, 2021, 06:33:08 pm by silent majority »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.

NickDRFC

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #34 on April 06, 2021, 06:36:01 pm by NickDRFC »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

I've not failed at a club at that level either, do you reckon they'd give me the job?

Getridorit

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #35 on April 06, 2021, 06:40:02 pm by Getridorit »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.
OK, but why throw the season away in appointing someone with zero experience?
Someone who as a senior pro was part of the rot that set in before moore left, and still expect him to turn it around and finish in the play offs.

Surely you can admit it was a monumental mistake, based on blind faith and hope?

silent majority

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #36 on April 06, 2021, 06:45:38 pm by silent majority »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.
OK, but why throw the season away in appointing someone with zero experience?
Someone who as a senior pro was part of the rot that set in before moore left, and still expect him to turn it around and finish in the play offs.

Surely you can admit it was a monumental mistake, based on blind faith and hope?

You don't learn much do you? There's a whole bunch of posters on this forum who seem to be understanding of the current situation, and then there's you, boring and monotonous.

Jonathan

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #37 on April 06, 2021, 06:51:55 pm by Jonathan »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.
OK, but why throw the season away in appointing someone with zero experience?
Someone who as a senior pro was part of the rot that set in before moore left, and still expect him to turn it around and finish in the play offs.

Surely you can admit it was a monumental mistake, based on blind faith and hope?

It’s not blind faith and hope though is it. AB has worked in and around the club for years, done his coaching badges, coached at youth team level and managed the ladies team. This is a big step up, granted, but he knows the club.

People throw around examples of Portsmouth, Charlton and Sunderland as if we’re the only club in the history of the game to appoint a caretaker manager from within. Ironically, one of the managers on the aforementioned list (Adkins) started out at Scunthorpe because he was given a chance despite having little or no experience. He did okay and went on to have a good career. Every manager starts somewhere.

So far it’s not working for Butler, but he’ll learn and we’ll live. For me the biggest mistake was Butler not bringing in (or being discouraged from bringing in?) an assistant.


scawsby steve

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #38 on April 06, 2021, 06:55:42 pm by scawsby steve »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.

I was just responding to Brian, Martin, as he seems to be keen on the idea of appointing AB for next season.

scawsby steve

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #39 on April 06, 2021, 06:59:39 pm by scawsby steve »
  Steve, unlikely I know on current form but if and it's a big big if we do go on a run of wins to the end of the season and do sneak in the playoffs the same people wanting him sacked would kiss his ass who are asking for his head now, and it seems I have to include you in that number.

Brian, if AB gets us into the play-offs, I'll kiss your ass, as well as his.

vaya

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #40 on April 06, 2021, 07:08:12 pm by vaya »
  Steve, unlikely I know on current form but if and it's a big big if we do go on a run of wins to the end of the season and do sneak in the playoffs the same people wanting him sacked would kiss his ass who are asking for his head now, and it seems I have to include you in that number.

Brian, if AB gets us into the play-offs, I'll kiss your ass, as well as his.

Legally binding.

ravenrover

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #41 on April 06, 2021, 07:21:55 pm by ravenrover »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.
OK, but why throw the season away in appointing someone with zero experience?
Someone who as a senior pro was part of the rot that set in before moore left, and still expect him to turn it around and finish in the play offs.

Surely you can admit it was a monumental mistake, based on blind faith and hope?
We have always had a process of appointing a manager and it doesn't involve going out and appointing X Y or Z on a whim unless of course you count Dickov in No decent manager would be prepared to step in and take on this job for what remains of the season whilst we go through the aforementioned process which may or not result in said stand in manager being appointed. AB is in till the end of the season no matter what.whether he gets the job full time depends on the process, we will see come June July

normal rules

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #42 on April 06, 2021, 07:47:51 pm by normal rules »
Just checking the contracts for the first team. 20 contracts expire before the end of may or June this year.

And to quote the club when DM left and AB was appointed:

Our ambitions remain to achieve a top-six finish and we hope and expect that Andy will use this time to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season.

“Andy’s first priority will be to halt the team’s recent run of poor form and put our season back on track



As I've mentioned elsewhere the club, players and their agents, have all held discussions and decisions will  be made later based on the various requirements that suit each individual situation. There's no disagreements, just that some players will wait and see what happens over the next few weeks. That suits us too.


I was just casting my mind forward to the future SM.  Player contracts for any manager, be it AB or a new incumbent is something that will need sorting as a priority.
I was also looking at contracts in the context of the club statement, relating to Andys position. The statement eludes to an expectation of him being around next season.
Interesting your ref to agents. Football would be a much better place without them don’t you think? I rate them the same as I rate estate agents. And that’s not very high.


A couple of points nr.

I think there's been some misunderstanding about AB and any responsibility for renewing contracts, I don't think it's ever been stated by the club that he would be doing it. He may have mentioned it himself but my understanding is that GB, DB and Adam Henshall are dealing with that side of things. It's a possibility of course that the club may want input from any new manager if one comes in, and that would make sense as well.

As for agents!! Jeez, they've caused this club more problems in the last few years than I care to mention. They get in players (and managers) ears and really upset the apple cart. They should be done away with.

SM, I never stated AB had responsibility for renewing contracts. I commented that AB or any manager incumbent would be needing to "sort" contracts as a priority, (be that renew or not).  The club expressed that they expect AB to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season. That's pretty unambiguous to me and I expect to see AB as manager for next season. I find it hard to believe, whoever the manager is, that he will not be integral to contract talks.
Adam has left the club has'nt he for Villa?

Getridorit

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #43 on April 06, 2021, 08:00:14 pm by Getridorit »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.
OK, but why throw the season away in appointing someone with zero experience?
Someone who as a senior pro was part of the rot that set in before moore left, and still expect him to turn it around and finish in the play offs.

Surely you can admit it was a monumental mistake, based on blind faith and hope?

You don't learn much do you? There's a whole bunch of posters on this forum who seem to be understanding of the current situation, and then there's you, boring and monotonous.

Please convince me, I'm struggling to regain faith here that the club have any plan.
I'm not wanting an argument, but it's not just this season.
I'm emotionally invested in this club, through 3 generations, and I just need something to convince me because I just don't see it.

since-1969

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #44 on April 06, 2021, 08:20:20 pm by since-1969 »
Covid OR results aside ..doesn't anybody   not feel let down by the appointment of a Manager without any experience at L1 level and such a crucial time of the season.

les@donr

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #45 on April 06, 2021, 09:24:21 pm by les@donr »
Given the current poor run,  the board would be wise to start the interview process now and have a new manager in place before end of season so he can decide which players to keep or release before next season starts. Our season is over, best now prepare for next season. First starting with a new manager in place to have the Summer to sign the players he wants. If we wait until the end of season to look for a new manager, it will give him a shorter period to sign new players.

selby

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #46 on April 06, 2021, 10:02:53 pm by selby »
  And given the unlikely situation of it arising I will hold you to it.  Lets hope for better things ahead.

drfchound

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #47 on April 06, 2021, 10:46:21 pm by drfchound »
Just checking the contracts for the first team. 20 contracts expire before the end of may or June this year.

And to quote the club when DM left and AB was appointed:

Our ambitions remain to achieve a top-six finish and we hope and expect that Andy will use this time to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season.

“Andy’s first priority will be to halt the team’s recent run of poor form and put our season back on track



As I've mentioned elsewhere the club, players and their agents, have all held discussions and decisions will  be made later based on the various requirements that suit each individual situation. There's no disagreements, just that some players will wait and see what happens over the next few weeks. That suits us too.


I was just casting my mind forward to the future SM.  Player contracts for any manager, be it AB or a new incumbent is something that will need sorting as a priority.
I was also looking at contracts in the context of the club statement, relating to Andys position. The statement eludes to an expectation of him being around next season.
Interesting your ref to agents. Football would be a much better place without them don’t you think? I rate them the same as I rate estate agents. And that’s not very high.


A couple of points nr.

I think there's been some misunderstanding about AB and any responsibility for renewing contracts, I don't think it's ever been stated by the club that he would be doing it. He may have mentioned it himself but my understanding is that GB, DB and Adam Henshall are dealing with that side of things. It's a possibility of course that the club may want input from any new manager if one comes in, and that would make sense as well.

As for agents!! Jeez, they've caused this club more problems in the last few years than I care to mention. They get in players (and managers) ears and really upset the apple cart. They should be done away with.






Henshall SM?
Hasn’t he moved on now?

Retdon1

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #48 on April 07, 2021, 12:03:31 am by Retdon1 »
Who ever does come in. Next season will be a complete rebuild. It’s looking increasingly likely that we will lose the likes of Wright, James and Taylor this summer. I still don’t understand why we are letting out better players contacts run down to the last month...
I heard a rumour this morning that Sheff Wed want Reece James for next season.

Janso

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #49 on April 07, 2021, 07:12:15 am by Janso »
We've got a year's extention on Taylor don't we?

ravenrover

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #50 on April 07, 2021, 07:29:42 am by ravenrover »
Henshaw will still help out in the short term

silent majority

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #51 on April 07, 2021, 09:11:23 am by silent majority »
Just checking the contracts for the first team. 20 contracts expire before the end of may or June this year.

And to quote the club when DM left and AB was appointed:

Our ambitions remain to achieve a top-six finish and we hope and expect that Andy will use this time to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season.

“Andy’s first priority will be to halt the team’s recent run of poor form and put our season back on track



As I've mentioned elsewhere the club, players and their agents, have all held discussions and decisions will  be made later based on the various requirements that suit each individual situation. There's no disagreements, just that some players will wait and see what happens over the next few weeks. That suits us too.


I was just casting my mind forward to the future SM.  Player contracts for any manager, be it AB or a new incumbent is something that will need sorting as a priority.
I was also looking at contracts in the context of the club statement, relating to Andys position. The statement eludes to an expectation of him being around next season.
Interesting your ref to agents. Football would be a much better place without them don’t you think? I rate them the same as I rate estate agents. And that’s not very high.


A couple of points nr.

I think there's been some misunderstanding about AB and any responsibility for renewing contracts, I don't think it's ever been stated by the club that he would be doing it. He may have mentioned it himself but my understanding is that GB, DB and Adam Henshall are dealing with that side of things. It's a possibility of course that the club may want input from any new manager if one comes in, and that would make sense as well.

As for agents!! Jeez, they've caused this club more problems in the last few years than I care to mention. They get in players (and managers) ears and really upset the apple cart. They should be done away with.

SM, I never stated AB had responsibility for renewing contracts. I commented that AB or any manager incumbent would be needing to "sort" contracts as a priority, (be that renew or not).  The club expressed that they expect AB to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season. That's pretty unambiguous to me and I expect to see AB as manager for next season. I find it hard to believe, whoever the manager is, that he will not be integral to contract talks.
Adam has left the club has'nt he for Villa?

nr, I never said you did, it was a general observation that a few posters are under that impression.

I think if you look at what DB said about the appointment of AB until the end of the season he said that he hoped that AB would put himself into a strong position for consideration, meaning, how I see it, that he was hoping that AB would keep us firmly in the play-off spots meaning he would have a strong case for taking part in the interview process. It all depends on performance surely?

The club appear to be pretty relaxed about the contract situation, as I've mentioned before the players and club have agreements in place to conclude negotiations at a certain point in time, one that suits all parties. And, as you allude to it, they would obviously expect some input from a team manager, of which we don't have a permanent one as yet.

As for Adam, it was announced at the time, (by me I think) that he would be helping the club during the transition period. His work, because its always about forward planning, was already in place, so it makes sense for him to have input to that.

silent majority

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #52 on April 07, 2021, 09:11:44 am by silent majority »
We've got a year's extention on Taylor don't we?

Yes we do.

EasyforDennis

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #53 on April 07, 2021, 11:33:06 am by EasyforDennis »
  All those have failed as managers some at clubs at the same level as ourselves with lots more money to spend.
  Our current manager has not failed as yet especially with a team of his own players that he could take the blame for, he has to have a transfer window for that, if not two.

Brian, as I've said in another thread, if this shocking run continues, and AB is still appointed for next season, we'd be struggling to sell 1000 season tickets.

ss, I don't think that anybody has intimated that AB will be a permanent appointment.

We have a process for appointing managers, which has worked well so far, so put your faith in that.

It could be argued that the process hasn't been that successful as the last 3 managers all jumped ship at the first opportunity. Maybe the process doesn't look far enough into the personality of the applicants? Whilst the last 2 managers had a modicum of success neither was very trustworthy.

Getridorit

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #54 on April 07, 2021, 11:51:35 am by Getridorit »
Just checking the contracts for the first team. 20 contracts expire before the end of may or June this year.

And to quote the club when DM left and AB was appointed:

Our ambitions remain to achieve a top-six finish and we hope and expect that Andy will use this time to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season.

“Andy’s first priority will be to halt the team’s recent run of poor form and put our season back on track



As I've mentioned elsewhere the club, players and their agents, have all held discussions and decisions will  be made later based on the various requirements that suit each individual situation. There's no disagreements, just that some players will wait and see what happens over the next few weeks. That suits us too.


I was just casting my mind forward to the future SM.  Player contracts for any manager, be it AB or a new incumbent is something that will need sorting as a priority.
I was also looking at contracts in the context of the club statement, relating to Andys position. The statement eludes to an expectation of him being around next season.
Interesting your ref to agents. Football would be a much better place without them don’t you think? I rate them the same as I rate estate agents. And that’s not very high.


A couple of points nr.

I think there's been some misunderstanding about AB and any responsibility for renewing contracts, I don't think it's ever been stated by the club that he would be doing it. He may have mentioned it himself but my understanding is that GB, DB and Adam Henshall are dealing with that side of things. It's a possibility of course that the club may want input from any new manager if one comes in, and that would make sense as well.

As for agents!! Jeez, they've caused this club more problems in the last few years than I care to mention. They get in players (and managers) ears and really upset the apple cart. They should be done away with.

SM, I never stated AB had responsibility for renewing contracts. I commented that AB or any manager incumbent would be needing to "sort" contracts as a priority, (be that renew or not).  The club expressed that they expect AB to put himself in the prime position to secure the role on a permanent basis at the end of the season. That's pretty unambiguous to me and I expect to see AB as manager for next season. I find it hard to believe, whoever the manager is, that he will not be integral to contract talks.
Adam has left the club has'nt he for Villa?

nr, I never said you did, it was a general observation that a few posters are under that impression.

I think if you look at what DB said about the appointment of AB until the end of the season he said that he hoped that AB would put himself into a strong position for consideration, meaning, how I see it, that he was hoping that AB would keep us firmly in the play-off spots meaning he would have a strong case for taking part in the interview process. It all depends on performance surely?

The club appear to be pretty relaxed about the contract situation, as I've mentioned before the players and club have agreements in place to conclude negotiations at a certain point in time, one that suits all parties. And, as you allude to it, they would obviously expect some input from a team manager, of which we don't have a permanent one as yet.

As for Adam, it was announced at the time, (by me I think) that he would be helping the club during the transition period. His work, because its always about forward planning, was already in place, so it makes sense for him to have input to that.
Can you show me where to find what DB said about the appointment of AB?
I must have missed that.
Thanks

Edit.
It's OK, I've found it
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 11:57:18 am by Getridorit »

BobG

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #55 on April 07, 2021, 01:52:07 pm by BobG »
elude: escape from or avoid (a danger, enemy, or pursuer), typically in a skilful or cunning way

allude: suggest or call attention to indirectly; hint at.


BobG

Maps

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #56 on April 07, 2021, 07:56:42 pm by Maps »
Jonathan sums up my thoughts perfectly;

For me the biggest mistake was Butler not bringing in (or being discouraged from bringing in?) an assistant.

This could have made all the difference. To try and do it all by himself was bordering on madness.

Chris Black come back

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #57 on April 07, 2021, 08:00:56 pm by Chris Black come back »
I doubt it would have made any real difference. It's same as when a politician is told to get new advisers because their decisions are shit. You appoint a manager to do the job, not his assistant. Granted it would make his life a bit easier to have an assistant, but the decisions are still being made by the main man. It's not really that relevant.

Retdon1

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #58 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pm by Retdon1 »
Question for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ?

streathamdave

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Re: New manager?
« Reply #59 on April 07, 2021, 10:30:20 pm by streathamdave »
Agreed Maps. Having a number 2 would have allowed Butler to start some games if needed based on form. Now he doesn't have that option.

 

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