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Author Topic: Batley & Spen Byelection  (Read 4649 times)

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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #30 on June 28, 2021, 01:51:18 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Part of the problem on the Left is that people get influenced by suave gobshites like Bastani here, who literally prefers to fight Labour moderates than the Tories.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409228399072055297

He is talking ignorant bullshit here. Leadbetter is 100% right that you cannot fund long term current spending from borrowing. You CAN and SHOULD fund a response to shocks like the GFC or COVID from borrowing. You CAN and SHOULD fund capital investment from borrowing. Bridges, rail lines, broadband etc. One-time, fixed cost stuff that will boost the economy and pay back.

You CANNOT and MUST NOT use borrowing to pay for ongoing long term current costs like nurses' salaries or social care. You have to pay that through taxation.

What Bastani is doing there is either ignorantly or deliberately painting the 100% correct words of a Labour candidate as somehow being to the right of the Tories. And people lap it up.



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big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #31 on June 28, 2021, 04:31:22 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.

As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.

He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.

You tell me how Labour should address that.

Seemingly this is how they address it.

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1409510410391277572?s=19

Seems to me like all of the candidates are stoking up division in that area...

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #32 on June 28, 2021, 05:27:00 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It is an established fact that Modhi is a Hindu nationalist who has passed quite viciously anti-Muslim legislation. And Baroness Warsi herself has called out the Tory party repeatedly for it's issues on Islamophobia. So those criticisms are based in fact. But personally, I really don't like that sort of politics.

wesisback

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #33 on June 28, 2021, 05:31:05 pm by wesisback »
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.

As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.

He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.

You tell me how Labour should address that.

Seemingly this is how they address it.

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1409510410391277572?s=19

Seems to me like all of the candidates are stoking up division in that area...
Deary me. With that added on to a local Labour Councillor caught on camera removing George Galloway posters today it really isn't a good look for the party who have been crying about how mucky the campaign has been.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 05:57:09 pm by wesisback »

drfchound

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #34 on June 28, 2021, 05:31:38 pm by drfchound »
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.

As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.

He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.

You tell me how Labour should address that.

Seemingly this is how they address it.

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1409510410391277572?s=19

Seems to me like all of the candidates are stoking up division in that area...





I could be wrong but it appears that racism is alive and active.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #35 on June 28, 2021, 06:16:28 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
It is an established fact that Modhi is a Hindu nationalist who has passed quite viciously anti-Muslim legislation. And Baroness Warsi herself has called out the Tory party repeatedly for it's issues on Islamophobia. So those criticisms are based in fact. But personally, I really don't like that sort of politics.

Absolutely agree I have a number of Muslim friends who live in India (not totally strict Muslims but still Muslims). 

Interesting though, Corbyn was doing the right thing talking to many people. Johnson talks to the leader of one of the largest countries in the world and......

It should be noted also that it's fundamental in this country that all sides should campaign freely. To me it appears none of them can and that isn't right.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #36 on June 28, 2021, 06:47:47 pm by Sprotyrover »
So do we know who the scummies where who physically attacked Labour canvassers over the weekend? It's getting Daft over there by the look of things!

wesisback

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #37 on June 28, 2021, 08:20:10 pm by wesisback »
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.

drfchound

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #38 on June 28, 2021, 08:37:33 pm by drfchound »
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.




It is all going to end in tears for them.
Incredibly bad election strategy.

tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #39 on June 28, 2021, 08:56:09 pm by tyke1962 »
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.

Jesus wept !!!

albie

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #40 on June 28, 2021, 09:40:03 pm by albie »
That old Mandelson magic comes shining through again.....let's fight elections without talking about our policies, worked so well in Hartlepool.

The harsh truth is that the extreme centrists in the driving seat for Labour have not got 2 brain cells to rub together.

Making an avoidable mistake is a regrettable error, but repeating it suggests Starmers team have not got the brains of a gnat!

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #41 on June 28, 2021, 10:02:04 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Some folk really showing their true colours here. Not a word of criticism of Galloway from people who have claimed to be Labour supporters.

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #42 on June 29, 2021, 12:06:23 am by SydneyRover »
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.

Jesus wept !!!

I'm surprised at jesus, I thought he would take a more impartial role

albie

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #43 on June 29, 2021, 12:35:38 am by albie »
Some folk really showing their true colours here. Not a word of criticism of Galloway from people who have claimed to be Labour supporters.
Well wide of the mark, BST.

The real issue is why the Labour right have created the vacuum into which someone like Galloway can operate.

All he is doing is exploiting the emptiness in the Labour offer to voters, and filling it with his populist memes.
It is as easy as shelling peas, when Labour makes its sales pitch a nothing agenda.

This will keep happening at every by-election until Starmer grows some backbone.
Little chance of that with unelected disgrace Mandelson, and moral leper Alastair Campbell on show.

Not pointing to a brighter future is it?
Talk today about bringing Blair back as an MP.......Jesus really would weep at that!

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #44 on June 29, 2021, 12:52:01 am by SydneyRover »
I would imagine it's reasonably difficult to turn labour fortunes around following the worst election result since when??? and plenty want to revive the corpse. A lot of ex-labour supporters need to go to cat skinning classes as they appear to have forgotten how the art of politics work.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #45 on June 29, 2021, 02:04:15 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Albie.
Do

So many words of criticism of Labour.

Not one of Galloway.

albie

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #46 on June 29, 2021, 02:14:27 am by albie »
BST,

Galloway is a shit, exploiting the lack of political voice that Labour is offering.
He can only operate in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies.

Galloway is the product of the failure of Labour to engage, he needs Starmerism in order to thrive.
Starmer gives him oxygen, and allows him relevance.

If you can't see that, then you do not understand the dynamics of the demographic shifts in voting behaviour taking place.

A question for you in good faith;
Do you think that the re-emergence of Mandelson and Campbell will help Labour increase their vote share across the country?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 02:28:51 am by albie »

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #47 on June 29, 2021, 04:10:53 am by SydneyRover »
Maybe the whole idea of labour winning at the next election following such a devastating defeat needs to be looked at in perspective and not through the intensity of each byelection. To even suggest that the rebuild necessary could be done even if there was a full five years to work with would be a stretch. Barely 18 months from a grand slamming I would think that there is a 5 year plan under construction and a longer one that will see opportunities taken as they arise but a steady rebuild going on, similar to club doncaster. If there was an easy way it would have been done some time in the previous 10 years.

Disunity is death

tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #48 on June 29, 2021, 06:36:30 am by tyke1962 »
Maybe the whole idea of labour winning at the next election following such a devastating defeat needs to be looked at in perspective and not through the intensity of each byelection. To even suggest that the rebuild necessary could be done even if there was a full five years to work with would be a stretch. Barely 18 months from a grand slamming I would think that there is a 5 year plan under construction and a longer one that will see opportunities taken as they arise but a steady rebuild going on, similar to club doncaster. If there was an easy way it would have been done some time in the previous 10 years.

Disunity is death

Well if such a plan existed Sydney which doesn't look the case you are assuming 2019 was rock bottom .

The party is heading for oblivion make no mistake about it unless it decides what it wants to be .

At the moment all it's saying is we aren't the Tories and the country is saying NO THANKS .

The thing is there isn't a right lot to beat and it's getting hammered by not a lot to beat .

What's that saying about Labour ?


SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #49 on June 29, 2021, 07:15:13 am by SydneyRover »
Isn't it more about what you are saying about labour, from your tone, intentional or not it sounds like you'd prefer them down and out. Worst defeat in your lifetime and mine, that's fairly rock bottom and the party needs all hands to the pump not sniping and wishing the worst I would have thought. I don't want to keep harking back to Corbyn but when you keep banging on about where labour are now and where they are heading, remember he put them right there. If you don't accept history you can't expect to learn from it. Corbyn was unacceptable to the electorate, not all his fault he had all the morons on his case spouting rubbish from the mail about terrorism etc but there was a lot he should have sorted but didn't. Labour are in the position they are as a direct result of the management they had in place and the decisions they made or didn't make up to the last election, which I'll remind you again was only around 18 months ago. Have you thought that Starmer may have done better if he had rock solid support at the top, and it is why he's clearing the decks, remember if you're not helping you're in the way.

Ldr

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #50 on June 29, 2021, 09:03:18 am by Ldr »
Remember when the Labour Party was representative of the working person and trade unions? Me too , just barely, maybe that’s an issue too

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #51 on June 29, 2021, 09:24:07 am by SydneyRover »
Remember when the Labour Party was representative of the working person and trade unions? Me too , just barely, maybe that’s an issue too

I totally agree Ldr, but in the UK atm the electorate don't appear to want a government based on a hard left, not enough to get out and vote for one. They I'm sure didn't want a law breaking hard right tory government either but it doesn't matter that ship sailed in 2019.

drfchound

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #52 on June 29, 2021, 09:24:38 am by drfchound »
It seems that there is much division in the Labour Party and even on this forum there is much discord between posters who not so long ago were united.
Too many appear to be finding fault with the likes of Galloway, and the Tories of course, rather than looking at where their own Party is going and the lack of leadership.


GazLaz

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #53 on June 29, 2021, 09:27:36 am by GazLaz »
BST, have you ever heard of a guy called Ranjeet Brar?

Herbert Anchovy

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #54 on June 29, 2021, 09:40:47 am by Herbert Anchovy »
Here’s what I genuinely don’t understand. The UK hasn’t voted for a truly left wing Labour Government for decades, probably since 1945. In 1950 that majority was slashed and in 1951 the Tories won power. Since then, Labour has only ever won whilst taking a centre left position successfully delivered by Blair and to a lesser extend Wilson. The moment Labour moves to the left, as they did with Foot, Corbyn and to a degree Callaghan, the voters don’t want to know! So, why on earth would Labour continue with a left wing policy that the country has voted against on countless occasions?

In the 80’s when I was active on the far left of the party, there were members who were more concerned with outing Kinnock than Thatcher. The ideological battle was more important than the political battle. And what happened? Thatcher, despite tearing the country apart, won election after election.

For Labour to win again, they need to take the centre ground. They cannot be a far left party ever again. What’s infuriating is that I can see history repeating itself with people far more concerned with infighting than beating the Tories. The country is a very different place to the one in which the Labour Party was formed and Labour needs to reflect that.


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #55 on June 29, 2021, 12:31:40 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Albie.
Galloway is gallivanting around trying to drag the Muslim vote off Labour by painting Starmer as a crazed Zionist. How the hell is that him "operat(ing) in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies."

But I'm glad to see you condemning him. I've seen plenty of people on the Labour left sticking the boot into Leadbetter and never saying a word about that t**t.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #56 on June 29, 2021, 12:32:03 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Gaz.
No I haven't. Who is he?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #57 on June 29, 2021, 12:40:17 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
HA.

Bang on (other than there is no way that Callaghan took Labour to the left - much the contrary).

The massive Corbynite myth is that there is a mass of people out there desperate for a very left wing Labour Govt. That has never been the case, certainly not for a Corbynite sort of foreign policy. The Left laud the Attlee Govt, but Attlee would have been appalled at Corbyn's foreign policy stances. The truth as you say is that Labour can ONLY win by uniting the left and centre. But the moment Labour moves towards the centre, the Left see them as the Red Tory traitors.

Ldr

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #58 on June 29, 2021, 12:44:43 pm by Ldr »
Albie.
Galloway is gallivanting around trying to drag the Muslim vote off Labour by painting Starmer as a crazed Zionist. How the hell is that him "operat(ing) in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies."

But I'm glad to see you condemning him. I've seen plenty of people on the Labour left sticking the boot into Leadbetter and never saying a word about that t**t.

If you were confident about what Labour were offering you wouldn’t be concerned about Galloway or any other party

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #59 on June 29, 2021, 12:49:43 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Ldr. No, of course Labour is in a pickle. For a start, they are picking up from a position where Corbyn took them to sub-20% polling for the first time in a century. What disgusts me is knowing that there are people on the left of Labour who actively want Galloway to pull more votes off Labour, so they can continue their fight with Starmer.

 

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