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Author Topic: Batley & Spen Byelection  (Read 3453 times)

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wilts rover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #90 on June 30, 2021, 10:55:45 pm by wilts rover »
The news today that whats left of the members would back Yvette Cooper to replace Starmer when they lose Batley on Friday according to a poll, an MP who is almost certainly being ousted from her position in Pontefract at the next election. Stunning.

It wasn't a Labour members poll. It was a Sky poll of 850 members. And 38% of them is hardly a resounding endorsement is it. Compared to the 69% who want Andy Burnham. Although Starmer isn't going anywhere (he says in the Yorkshire Post).



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SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #91 on July 01, 2021, 02:59:18 am by SydneyRover »
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?

How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.

Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.










tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #92 on July 01, 2021, 06:32:21 am by tyke1962 »
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?

How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.

Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.

Depends how you judge educated doesn't it ?

Life experience .

Common sense .

Knowledge .

Engaging .

Thinking outside the box .

Many things contribute to intelligence and a university degree isn't necessarily one of them in politics .

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #93 on July 01, 2021, 06:39:30 am by SydneyRover »
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?

How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.

Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.

Depends how you judge educated doesn't it ?

Life experience .

Common sense .

Knowledge .

Engaging .

Thinking outside the box .

Many things contribute to intelligence and a university degree isn't necessarily one of them in politics .

Nothing inside or outside the box with those thoughts Tyke, what I'm saying is all these things should be included not excluded, educated or not it shouldn't matter, but certainly shouldn't be seen as detrimental if you are, which is the feeling one gets if you read some of the posts.


big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #94 on July 01, 2021, 08:36:02 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
The point on the education voting for parties and membership is interesting.  But the one bit that sticks out for me is how well paid graduates seem to be able to think they relate to the working classes. It is a very different lifestyle, culture and way of life.  I found it very tough to fit in to that culture at university coming from a working class background and I still see those differences in colleagues, friends etc. That crosses in to how politics is made up these days.

The key to it is balance and the perception for many is that labour have lost that and moved too much towards the higher class educated city types.  The problem remains that labour can't attract that balance in enough numbers to win.

I look at myself as a typical "muddle class" as Jason manford calls it and struggle to relate to any of the parties at all.  How in a changing society do any of the parties succeed with that? The Tories have shifted fairly successfully but they risk losing out in the south because of that and it's a balance they will struggle to maintain.  How do labour find that space?

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #95 on July 01, 2021, 09:07:20 am by SydneyRover »
I have read about that sort of experience before and it's a failure in others of course not yourself pud, but that probably doesn't make you feel any better. Unfortunately If the non-university members opt out any imbalance will be exaggerated.

added

I remember when I was seconded to an engineering office where the chief eng' looked down on those that had attained their degrees at night-school rather than at uni, there's no end to the b*llocks in people's heads.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 09:19:22 am by SydneyRover »

Metalmicky

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tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #97 on July 01, 2021, 06:24:01 pm by tyke1962 »
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?

How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.

Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.

Depends how you judge educated doesn't it ?

Life experience .

Common sense .

Knowledge .

Engaging .

Thinking outside the box .

Many things contribute to intelligence and a university degree isn't necessarily one of them in politics .

Nothing inside or outside the box with those thoughts Tyke, what I'm saying is all these things should be included not excluded, educated or not it shouldn't matter, but certainly shouldn't be seen as detrimental if you are, which is the feeling one gets if you read some of the posts.

The detriment is played out on the door step and at the ballot box when canvassers and politicians get a flea in their ear or a lost deposit .

Time and time again Labour are told , " your only interested in the middle classes " .

Sending pro EU candidates up to Hartlepool to fight an election in a massive leave area tells you nobody in the Labour Party listens .

They don't get it and unless we see more authentic Labour candidates that understand areas inside the former red wall and have a vision and policies that cut through then expect many more tonkings at the ballot box .

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #98 on July 01, 2021, 06:36:43 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Tyke

Bizarre post on the day of a by-election in which Labour are putting up a local working class candidate.

There's the other thing that you keep on forgetting. These Red Wall seats that voted for Leave. Remind me in how many of them the majority of LABOUR supporters voted Leave?

Here's a clue from an enormous survey that the British Electoral College undertook in 2019.

"In Labour held sets with a Leave majority the figures (of what Labour voters backed) are...: 64% remain and 25% leave. "

I keep telling you this and you keep on not getting it. You, as a Leave supporting ex-Labour supporter are in a tiny minority of all Labour voters. You are asking Labour to pander to you. They did in Spring 2019, and they ended up at 18% in the polls. I don't mean this personally, honestly, because I want people on the Left to unite, but in simple terms, your demands are not important enough. I wish you would realise that and support a party that might get you some of what you want, instead of you being part of the reason why you will get zero of what you want.

scawsby steve

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #99 on July 01, 2021, 07:54:16 pm by scawsby steve »
Tyke

Bizarre post on the day of a by-election in which Labour are putting up a local working class candidate.

There's the other thing that you keep on forgetting. These Red Wall seats that voted for Leave. Remind me in how many of them the majority of LABOUR supporters voted Leave?

Here's a clue from an enormous survey that the British Electoral College undertook in 2019.

"In Labour held sets with a Leave majority the figures (of what Labour voters backed) are...: 64% remain and 25% leave. "

I keep telling you this and you keep on not getting it. You, as a Leave supporting ex-Labour supporter are in a tiny minority of all Labour voters. You are asking Labour to pander to you. They did in Spring 2019, and they ended up at 18% in the polls. I don't mean this personally, honestly, because I want people on the Left to unite, but in simple terms, your demands are not important enough. I wish you would realise that and support a party that might get you some of what you want, instead of you being part of the reason why you will get zero of what you want.

With the greatest of respect, BST, it's you and the Labour Party who are not getting it, because you keep getting f*cking tonked. What good are all these surveys and stats you keep posting, if Labour are getting blathered all the time?

They've simply elected the wrong leader. Nice man? absolutely. Intellectual man? absolutely; but he was a terrible Shadow Brexit Secretary, and completely mis-read the people in the North and North-East, which has never been forgotten.

Is he seriously the man to win a majority for the Labour Party? Never in a million years.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #100 on July 01, 2021, 08:03:00 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
SS.
I've never once underestimated the scale of the electoral problem that Labour has. It's massive. But it is nothing compared to the problem they'd have if they embraced the approach that Tyke wants.

As I've said three dozen times, Corbyn tried that in 2019. And he took Labour to its lowest poll figures in a century.

scawsby steve

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #101 on July 01, 2021, 08:27:27 pm by scawsby steve »
So is there any common ground that can be made between the centrists and the left in the Labour Party?

If so, who would be the best bet for leader, in the event of a leadership contest?

Thoughts anyone?

drfchound

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #102 on July 01, 2021, 08:45:54 pm by drfchound »
Only one man can sort that out SS.

tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #103 on July 01, 2021, 08:58:14 pm by tyke1962 »
Tyke

Bizarre post on the day of a by-election in which Labour are putting up a local working class candidate.

There's the other thing that you keep on forgetting. These Red Wall seats that voted for Leave. Remind me in how many of them the majority of LABOUR supporters voted Leave?

Here's a clue from an enormous survey that the British Electoral College undertook in 2019.

"In Labour held sets with a Leave majority the figures (of what Labour voters backed) are...: 64% remain and 25% leave. "

I keep telling you this and you keep on not getting it. You, as a Leave supporting ex-Labour supporter are in a tiny minority of all Labour voters. You are asking Labour to pander to you. They did in Spring 2019, and they ended up at 18% in the polls. I don't mean this personally, honestly, because I want people on the Left to unite, but in simple terms, your demands are not important enough. I wish you would realise that and support a party that might get you some of what you want, instead of you being part of the reason why you will get zero of what you want.


No problem then Billy , you lot carry on your journey to number 10 , nowt to worry about then if we are such an irrelevance .

Should be a shoe in then in 2023 / 24 .

Crack on kiddo .

tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #104 on July 01, 2021, 09:15:27 pm by tyke1962 »
So is there any common ground that can be made between the centrists and the left in the Labour Party?

If so, who would be the best bet for leader, in the event of a leadership contest?

Thoughts anyone?

None that I can see , I couldn't stand to be in the same room as them never mind talk to them .


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #105 on July 01, 2021, 10:05:32 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Tyke.
What exactly DO you want? You are never ever going to get a Labour party that gives you exactly what you want. Neither am I. Why are so vitriolicly against any form of compromise with people who are mostly on your side?

tyke1962

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #106 on July 01, 2021, 10:18:04 pm by tyke1962 »
Tyke.
What exactly DO you want? You are never ever going to get a Labour party that gives you exactly what you want. Neither am I. Why are so vitriolicly against any form of compromise with people who are mostly on your side?

In my experience its for the fairies to even believe that some kind of compromise can be reached with you lot .

Why even get under hot under the collar Billy we are irrelevant aren't we ?

https://labourheartlands.com/labour-constituencies-voted-to-leave-the-eu/

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #107 on July 01, 2021, 10:37:34 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
No Tyke you are not irrelevant. You are just a long, long way from being a majority in the party or the country.

Labour cannot win without you. But Labour sure as f**king hell cannot win with only you.

Your call.

And don't flatter yourself that you have the faintest idea what "my lot" are.

wilts rover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #108 on July 01, 2021, 11:30:09 pm by wilts rover »
Reports of a high turnout, 70% being mentioned (which would be remarkable as higher then the last GE) and Labour 'quietly confident'. We'll see tomorrow morning I guess.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #109 on July 01, 2021, 11:56:36 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
No idea how this is going to go, but Galloway is now claiming he's been taking votes off the Tories which suggests he's worried Labour are going to win and he's making out it was him wot won it for them.

bpoolrover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #110 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:21 am by bpoolrover »
The Yorkshire party think tories are in front at the minute then labour and the workers party next, they say it is very close thou
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 01:25:22 am by bpoolrover »

bpoolrover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #111 on July 02, 2021, 03:50:11 am by bpoolrover »
It's funny watching coverage on tv and social media, you have a labour guy saying they think they have lost, a Lib Dem saying to close, a George Galloway one saying there in 2nd place, tories saying Galloway have took some of there votes and it's to close to call and the Yorkshire party saying labour are now ahead

bpoolrover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #112 on July 02, 2021, 04:48:58 am by bpoolrover »
Sky had said a Tory win now seems will be a labour hold lol

Donnywolf

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #113 on July 02, 2021, 05:08:38 am by Donnywolf »
Result now tipped to be Labour by around 300

Donnywolf

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #114 on July 02, 2021, 05:13:52 am by Donnywolf »
Amazingly Tories already "spinning" as to where they went wrong - before they have declared Result

Colemans Left Hook

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #115 on July 02, 2021, 05:15:18 am by Colemans Left Hook »
Result now tipped to be Labour by around 300
Which means extra time (a recount)?

Donnywolf

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #116 on July 02, 2021, 05:25:06 am by Donnywolf »
Result now tipped to be Labour by around 300
Which means extra time (a recount)?

Labour by just over 300

bpoolrover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #117 on July 02, 2021, 05:45:42 am by bpoolrover »
I'm quite happy with that I think she will make a good mp, it's refreshing to see someone with so much enthusiasm and positivity, donnywolf, of course the tories will spin it what would you expect them to do? By the sound of it they have probably not put enough into it to win and simply hoped they would win by Galloway taking labour votes and under estimating the vote labour would get

SydneyRover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #118 on July 02, 2021, 06:01:39 am by SydneyRover »
thank you Mr Murdoch for playing a straight bat and maintaining the Times' reputation for editorial independence.

wilts rover

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Re: Batley & Spen Byelection
« Reply #119 on July 02, 2021, 06:14:06 am by wilts rover »
Labour source on the Conservative campaign: "Turns out if you try and let George Galloway do your dirty work for you- it'll certainly be dirty but it won't work."

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1410827151377670144

 

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