NHS

[SydneyRover]

Will the wait lists be reduced by a substantive amount with the funding package proposed.

''Will Boris Johnson’s plan for the NHS work?''

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58480863

[Ldr]

Will the wait lists be reduced by a substantive amount with the funding package proposed.

''Will Boris Johnson’s plan for the NHS work?''

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58480863

Sure I just saw a squadron of flying pigs Syd

[SydneyRover]

I was sure I would get an answer from you on this Ldr, but I was hoping there would be some encouraging noises. It's a big mountain to climb, not made any easier by the lack of funding running up to covid along with a shortage of staff.

[selby]

  If the NHS are now working at capacity, what level of performance were they working at before Covid 19? I think most of us on here have either been told faster faster faster, or on peace work at one time or another,  had shifts imposed or altered to continental hours so that the assets of the company are used for longer hours in 24 and the labour force become more productive.
  While a consultant or a specialist doctor is unavailable for months, but can be seen quickly if a fee is paid, most likely at the same Hospital, something is wrong with the system and it has become a money making racket for the few. And while non medical staff are remunerated on higher wage scales  than private industry and nurses on the shop floor the system is wrong and become worse.
  It needs a complete overall.

[Ldr]

It’s all well and good throwing money at it Syd but there are fundemantal reconfigurations and systematic changes needed. A good starting position would be to address GP (un)availability. GPs are a fundamental part of the system (despite the vast majority being private businesses rather than NHS core). They provide the gateway / screen. In absence of availability ppl pitch up at A&E causing issue there or worse, ignore things leading to avoidable admissions. Also the public need to get away from this perception that every hospital can do everything, those days have passed, the more advanced medicine gets, the more specialist centres will emerge and ppl will need to accept travel as part of treatment pathways

[SydneyRover]

It’s all well and good throwing money at it Syd but there are fundemantal reconfigurations and systematic changes needed. A good starting position would be to address GP (un)availability. GPs are a fundamental part of the system (despite the vast majority being private businesses rather than NHS core). They provide the gateway / screen. In absence of availability ppl pitch up at A&E causing issue there or worse, ignore things leading to avoidable admissions. Also the public need to get away from this perception that every hospital can do everything, those days have passed, the more advanced medicine gets, the more specialist centres will emerge and ppl will need to accept travel as part of treatment pathways

I can well believe that, it's a problem here where there is a scarcity of services and GPs don't bulk bill, where gov covers 100% of cost of a visit. It's going to be interesting times.

[SydneyRover]

  If the NHS are now working at capacity, what level of performance were they working at before Covid 19? I think most of us on here have either been told faster faster faster, or on peace work at one time or another,  had shifts imposed or altered to continental hours so that the assets of the company are used for longer hours in 24 and the labour force become more productive.
  While a consultant or a specialist doctor is unavailable for months, but can be seen quickly if a fee is paid, most likely at the same Hospital, something is wrong with the system and it has become a money making racket for the few. And while non medical staff are remunerated on higher wage scales  than private industry and nurses on the shop floor the system is wrong and become worse.
  It needs a complete overall.

Ldr has as much selby but I'm not sure how you can run hospitals on a 24hrs basis. They have started running the expensive machinery here in some places 7 days and longer hours.

[Ldr]

To an extent staffing is a major issue over capacity Syd. Most trusts will run 2 lists per theatre per day (generally 8-12.30 and 1-5.30, ballpark times there) there is theatre available for a 3rd list per day 6 onwards but staffing it is an issue. Sensibly this 3rd list would be simple routine day surgery so not ppl who need an overnight bed.

[Axholme Lion]

If you threw the entire national wealth at the NHS they would still cry for more. It has become a quasi religious cult which is unacceptable to criticize.

[SydneyRover]

Daily Mail

''Now NHS wants to hire £270k bosses: Recruitment drive fuels fears over where extra cash raised by social care reforms will be going''

The Guardian

''Tories order biggest shake-up of NHS leadership in England for 40 years''

''NHS bosses also suspect the government has been “stung” by publicity around the fact that leaders of some of the new NHS “integrated care systems” – 44 regional groupings of health organisations across England that will become operational in April – will earn about £250,000, a lot more than the prime minister.

We know johnson reads and is influence by the scandal sheets, this is what you get from supporting and reading them.

[Ldr]

Scandalous, we are top heavy as it is

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Sajid Javid claims that NHS managers who fail to clear waiting list backlogs in their hospitals face the sack. That's the first sensible thing the bloke has said.

As someone who had to wait over 2 years for hernia surgery that grew to the size of a melon and caused a partial bowel blockage, i welcome this hard line stance from Mr Javid.

The NHS is a dead duck. Sort the real issues which are overpaid inept management Mr Javid.

[rtid88]

If you threw the entire national wealth at the NHS they would still cry for more. It has become a quasi religious cult which is unacceptable to criticize.

We have an aging population that are being kept alive longer and longer by big Pharma companies that on top of being some of the wealthiest companies in the world, charge the NHS exuberant amounts of money for their drugs so of course the NHS requires more money every year.

There are clearly too many top level managers in the NHS, now not being helped by these new £250k salaried managers that the Tories are insisting upon.

There is also a stupid amount of wastage in the NHS that goes without saying.

However, what would you rather have the NHS or a healthcare system based on ridiculously high priced insurance schemes like in America, which if the Tories stay in power for another full term would definitely spell the end for the NHS.

Do any of you NHS haters actually believe that if the NHS was to turn into an American based system that we would be charged any less tax to pay for it?? No chance!

The grass definitely isn't always greener and in terms mine and my whole families experiences of the NHS I could not fault it at all.

[albie]

Next stage in the privatisation of the NHS this week, the Health and Care Bill.

Here is what to be aware of;
https://twitter.com/trendylefty/status/1462380518733983747/photo/1

Beginning of the end, or end of the beginning?

John Major warned about the pythons;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-major-nhs-risk-brexit-pythons-johnson-and-gove

[SydneyRover]

Scandalous, we are top heavy as it is

Some of this money could be better spent, although on a daily basis it's only a tenth of what was promised writ v-large on the side of a bus.

''Dr Jenny Harries, the chief executive of the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), who is responsible for NHS test and trace, told MPs in July there was a “very detailed ramp-down plan” to cut the number of consultants.

But latest figures show that at the end of October it employed 1,230 consultants. Test and trace has average daily contractor rates of £1,100, potentially equating to £1,353,000 a day. The ratio of consultants to civil servants in NHS test and trace in September was 1:1, separate data shows, despite a target set a year ago to reduce the ratio to 60%.

At the same time, new contracts worth millions of pounds are still being awarded to private consultancy firms, the Guardian has found, despite repeated pledges to curb their use.

The test-and-trace system, which has a £37bn two-year budget that is equivalent to almost a fifth of the annual NHS England budget, is designed to identify Covid cases and limit their spread. UK daily reported Covid cases exceeded 50,000 last month and remain at about 40,000 a day.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/england-covid-test-and-trace-spending-over-1m-a-day-on-consultants

Q/ What spreads faster than covid?

A/ Public money in a tory free-for-all

I saw it on the side of a bus ............................ vote tory

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

It is the NHS pestering the Government constantly to introduce more restrictions on our lives just because they want life a bit easier in order to make up the huge back log of care that existed even before there was a pandemic.

The NHS want us locked down, masked up and jabbed. To be fair to the Tories, they are (at the moment) standing firm against the clamour from the NHS to curb our lives again. They should focus on getting their jobs done a bit better and stop blaming patients for being ill.

The NHS is significantly responsible for the removal of our freedoms. Because they are so inept and they want to cover this up.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Christ you don't half pour out some ba-baa.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Christ you don't half pour out some ba-baa.

Indeed

I am right though.

Ambulances are waiting outside hospitals for hours but yet the Chief Execs of these hospitals don't take a pay cut for clear failures. Bizarre.

[SydneyRover]

UK government Guidance, a few excerpts

Coronavirus: how to stay safe and help prevent the spread

It is still possible to catch and spread COVID-19, even if you are fully vaccinated.

Anyone with COVID-19 symptoms or a positive test result should stay at home and self-isolate immediately. If you have symptoms of COVID-19, you should arrange to take a PCR test as soon as possible, even if you’ve had one or more doses of a COVID-19 vaccine.

Wear a face covering

COVID-19 spreads through the air by droplets and aerosols that are exhaled from the nose and mouth of an infected person. You should wear face coverings in crowded and enclosed areas where you come into contact with people you do not usually meet.

f you develop COVID-19 symptoms, self-isolate immediately and get a PCR test, even if your symptoms are mild. This is because many people experience mild symptoms from COVID-19, but may still pass on the virus to others.

The most important symptoms of COVID-19 are recent onset of any of the following:

a new continuous cough

a high temperature

a loss of, or change in, your normal sense of taste or smell

You should self-isolate at home while you get a PCR test and wait for the results. You must self-isolate if you test positive. You must self-isolate from the day your symptoms started and the next 10 full days, or from the day your test was taken if you do not have symptoms and the next 10 full days. This is the law, regardless of whether you have been vaccinated. Self-isolating is important because you could pass the infection on to others, even if you do not have symptoms. You must stay at home for the full amount of time you are told to, because this is the period when the virus is most likely to be passed on to others.

Guidance on self-isolating
When self-isolating, follow the:

stay-at-home guidance for people with suspected or confirmed COVID-19
stay-at-home guidance for non-household contacts of people with confirmed COVID-19
This will help reduce the risk of spreading COVID-19 to other members of your household and community. In both cases you must stay at home at all times and not have contact with other people. There are only very limited circumstances when you do not have to do this, such as seeking medical assistance. If you do leave your home during your period of self-isolation for a permitted reason, you should maintain social distancing, keep 2 metres apart from other people, and wear a face covering where possible.

Try to stay at home if you’re feeling unwell
If you develop COVID-19 symptoms, self-isolate immediately and get a PCR test, even if your symptoms are mild. You should self-isolate at home while you book the test and wait for the results. You must self-isolate if you test positive.

Travelling in the UK and abroad

International travel

You must follow the rules for international travel. You should not travel to countries or territories on the red list.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Or we could just be grown up and treat it like the flu, ignore all that lot and get on with life?

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's 175,000 who are going to struggle with the "get on with life" idea.

[drfchound]

Last updated on Sunday 21 November 2021 at 4:00pm
From GOV.UK Website.
Daily update
Testing
Cases
Healthcare
Vaccinations
Deaths
Interactive maps
Metrics documentation
About the data
Download data
What's new
Developer's guide
Deaths inUnited Kingdom
Click to open the localisation banner, which provides options to switch location and receive data at different geographical levels.
Latest available data
Deaths within 28 days of positive test
Daily
61Value: 61 — Abstract information: Daily number of deaths within 28 days of first positive test, reported on Sunday, 21 November 2021.
Click for additional details.
Total
143,927Value

[Glyn_Wigley]

Sajid Javid claims that NHS managers who fail to clear waiting list backlogs in their hospitals face the sack. That's the first sensible thing the bloke has said.

As someone who had to wait over 2 years for hernia surgery that grew to the size of a melon and caused a partial bowel blockage, i welcome this hard line stance from Mr Javid.

The NHS is a dead duck. Sort the real issues which are overpaid inept management Mr Javid.

My mother (who died last month) was in Boston Pilgrim from August waiting for well over a month for an exploratory operation to assess the cancer that eventually killed her. They had to keep postponing the operation because there wasn't an ICU bed for her to go to after the operation.

That was because the ICU was full of Covid patients who had been sent there from Nottingham because all the Nottingham hospitals were already full of Covid patients. Bear in mind that between Nottingham and Boston is Grantham, so it's fair to assume that they'd also already filled up Grantham Hospital with them before they started sending them to Boston Pilgrim.

How is the hard-line stance from Mr Javid going to deal with that for you, hmm?

PS selby - THIS is the capacity that's been filled, not your assumption of staff capacity. Although the NHS actually being fully staffed for once would really help there too.

[Ldr]

Sorry for your loss Glyn

[Glyn_Wigley]

Or we could just be grown up and treat it like the flu, ignore all that lot and get on with life?

If we were grown up about tung cancer and started treating it like a cough, and got on with life (no matter how much shorter it was) that'd really help the NHS too.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Sorry for your loss Glyn

Thanks.

[normal rules]

Has anyone noticed over the last 10 or 20 years how expensive ambulances have become . I remember the ones with a single blue flashy bulb on the top. And a sticker that said ambulance on the side.
Ambulances now look like something from top gear. Or land rovers special vehicle unit.
The liveries alone must cost an absolute fortune.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

There's 175,000 who are going to struggle with the "get on with life" idea.

We have vaccines now. Either they work and we get back to normal or they don't and we get back to normal.

Get back to living and the vaccine will work or not. Those who are unsure about whether their vaccine will work or not can opt to stay indoors forever.

[SydneyRover]

Sorry for your loss Glyn

Thanks.

Sorry to here this Glyn, my condolences

[Glyn_Wigley]

Has anyone noticed over the last 10 or 20 years how expensive ambulances have become . I remember the ones with a single blue flashy bulb on the top. And a sticker that said ambulance on the side.
Ambulances now look like something from top gear. Or land rovers special vehicle unit.
The liveries alone must cost an absolute fortune.

Saving lives whilst transporting people does tend to cost a bit more than just driving them in an empty box and not giving them any treatment until you arrive at a hospital.