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Author Topic: The cost of Brexit  (Read 2664 times)

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SydneyRover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #60 on September 22, 2021, 09:41:49 am by SydneyRover »
It's difficult to take any of your political commentary seriously hound if you cannot tell the difference between boris liar johnson and angela raynor.



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Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #61 on September 22, 2021, 10:23:41 am by Bentley Bullet »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


I can't understand for the life of me why the £350m NHS bus slogan is claimed to be such a clincher in the outcome of the result. After all, all the racist, selfish, thick, inconsiderate, what's mine's mine leave voters wouldn't really give a shit about the NHS, would they?

SydneyRover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #62 on September 22, 2021, 10:32:51 am by SydneyRover »
In combination with this:

Nigel Farage's anti-migrant poster reported to police
Unison’s Dave Prentis said poster showing a queue of migrants and refugees incites racial hatred.

It appears it was enough, any professional sales person will tell you that the percentage of sales made with rational thought can be as low as 5%

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

drfchound

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #63 on September 22, 2021, 11:08:40 am by drfchound »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


I can't understand for the life of me why the £350m NHS bus slogan is claimed to be such a clincher in the outcome of the result. After all, all the racist, selfish, thick, inconsiderate, what's mine's mine leave voters wouldn't really give a shit about the NHS, would they?




BB, I do think much was made of the slogan bus thing and some people did fall into the catergory of those that thought it was true.
Overall though I think most people saw through it but it was pushed hard by such as Farage and Johnson.

drfchound

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #64 on September 22, 2021, 11:10:50 am by drfchound »
It's difficult to take any of your political commentary seriously hound if you cannot tell the difference between boris liar johnson and angela raynor.




You are a strange one SR.
Where on Earth do you get that I was comparing Johnson to Raynor?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #65 on September 22, 2021, 11:13:24 am by BillyStubbsTears »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


I can't understand for the life of me why the £350m NHS bus slogan is claimed to be such a clincher in the outcome of the result. After all, all the racist, selfish, thick, inconsiderate, what's mine's mine leave voters wouldn't really give a shit about the NHS, would they?
There's a very interesting discussion to be had on the intentions behind the £350m claim.

But since you don't want to have that discussion but are spoiling for yet another pointless fight, I think I'll pass.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #66 on September 22, 2021, 11:17:40 am by Bentley Bullet »
You mean you can't answer, which is no surprise with your history. Just carry on with your grown-up politics eh!

SydneyRover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #67 on September 22, 2021, 11:19:00 am by SydneyRover »
It's difficult to take any of your political commentary seriously hound if you cannot tell the difference between boris liar johnson and angela raynor.




You are a strange one SR.
Where on Earth do you get that I was comparing Johnson to Raynor?

Because you have stated you think all politicians are the same, you still stand by your comment I take it? tell me what goes through your mind at the polling station.

selby

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #68 on September 22, 2021, 11:25:00 am by selby »
  Syd, what other people do in a polling station has nothing at all to do with you.

SydneyRover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #69 on September 22, 2021, 11:31:42 am by SydneyRover »
selby, unless you are the new moderator my comments are exactly that, my comments  :)

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #70 on September 22, 2021, 12:01:14 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


I can't understand for the life of me why the £350m NHS bus slogan is claimed to be such a clincher in the outcome of the result. After all, all the racist, selfish, thick, inconsiderate, what's mine's mine leave voters wouldn't really give a shit about the NHS, would they?




BB, I do think much was made of the slogan bus thing and some people did fall into the catergory of those that thought it was true.
Overall though I think most people saw through it but it was pushed hard by such as Farage and Johnson.

Hound, the bus slogan was nowhere near as much a promise as Cameron and Osborne's threats of an instant recession, along with punishment budgets and pension reductions were. It was their lies that led me to vote remain.

drfchound

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #71 on September 22, 2021, 01:03:26 pm by drfchound »
It's difficult to take any of your political commentary seriously hound if you cannot tell the difference between boris liar johnson and angela raynor.




You are a strange one SR.
Where on Earth do you get that I was comparing Johnson to Raynor?

Because you have stated you think all politicians are the same, you still stand by your comment I take it? tell me what goes through your mind at the polling station.




Yes I do, in that, generally, they are all in it for themselves. 
I assume that because you despise Johnson so much that Raynor is your new superhero as you highlight those two as being poles apart.
Has Starmer slipped down the list a bit?
With regards to the polling station, I don’t go to it.

SydneyRover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #72 on September 22, 2021, 01:23:17 pm by SydneyRover »
It's difficult to take any of your political commentary seriously hound if you cannot tell the difference between boris liar johnson and angela raynor.




You are a strange one SR.
Where on Earth do you get that I was comparing Johnson to Raynor?

Because you have stated you think all politicians are the same, you still stand by your comment I take it? tell me what goes through your mind at the polling station.




Yes I do, in that, generally, they are all in it for themselves. 
I assume that because you despise Johnson so much that Raynor is your new superhero as you highlight those two as being poles apart.
Has Starmer slipped down the list a bit?
With regards to the polling station, I don’t go to it.

You assume incorrectly hound, I only used her to emphasise your ridiculous position as I did with david lammy. Should we have politicians wear team strips and a number, would that help?

Calling all politicians the same is either lazy or ignorant or both and as you do so, what would it matter if I did despise johnson cos as you say they're all the same.

But, if you cannot see the difference between an untrustworthy liar without a conscience and someone that has been recognised for his service to the country then as I stand by what I said earlier

''It's difficult to take any of your political commentary seriously hound if you cannot tell the difference between boris liar johnson and angela raynor''

drfchound

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #73 on September 22, 2021, 03:48:16 pm by drfchound »
They probably have genetic differences.
Would the strips they wear always be red and blue?
As for my political stance, I don’t have one.

wilts rover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #74 on September 22, 2021, 04:23:04 pm by wilts rover »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


They need us more than we need them.
The German car industry will come to our rescue
UK will be first in line for a US trade deal

You don't remember any of them alongside the £350m they were insistent on saying would be coming back for the NHS? Your memory must be slipping hound. They are all easy to find, many times over, on google though to refresh yourself.

It's not leaving the EU that's at issue here - it never was - its how we left the EU and what the relationship with the EU (and the rest of the world would be afterwards. How the 'over ready, great deal' that Johnson promised he had would make the country better.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #75 on September 22, 2021, 04:27:05 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


I can't understand for the life of me why the £350m NHS bus slogan is claimed to be such a clincher in the outcome of the result. After all, all the racist, selfish, thick, inconsiderate, what's mine's mine leave voters wouldn't really give a shit about the NHS, would they?




BB, I do think much was made of the slogan bus thing and some people did fall into the catergory of those that thought it was true.
Overall though I think most people saw through it but it was pushed hard by such as Farage and Johnson.

Hound, the bus slogan was nowhere near as much a promise as Cameron and Osborne's threats of an instant recession, along with punishment budgets and pension reductions were. It was their lies that led me to vote remain.

Doesn't matter how many times the context of this is set out to you, you ignore it.

As I've pointed out up the post, the IMMEDIATE consequence of the 2016 vote was that our GDP growth tanked by between 1.75-2%. This was predictable and predicted, and corresponds to the sort of economic shock that you get in a typical recession. Osborne, rather hamfistedly said that there WOULD be a recession and it is true that there wasn't. But the one and only thing that saved us from actual recession was the mini-boom that the rest of the world experienced, which meant that our overall economic performance in the 2-3 years after the vote was just very bad, not disastrous. Osborne shouldn't have said there WOULD be a recession, but there was a need to hammer home to people just how severe the immediate economic hit would be.

As for the Budget, it is absolutely correct that, if we had stuck to the deficit targets that we had in 2016, there would have had to be swingeing spending cuts or tax rise after the Brexit vote. Hammond, who replaced Osborne chose to manage it differently, effectively choosing to extend Austerity and depressed Govt spending for another 5 years. Again, the basic principle of the point was correct: The Brexit vote blew a massive hole in the Govt finances and we will be paying for that for years. Punishment extended.

What Osborne said weren't "lies". They were "predictions". You cannot, as a matter of principle, lie about what is going to happen in the future.

That is entirely different from the bare faced lies on matters of established Objective Truth that Cummings based the Leave campaign on - from the £350m figure (which the National Audit Office instructed Leave to withdraw - and they didn't) to the claim that 80 million Turks were on the verge of getting the right to move next door,

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #76 on September 22, 2021, 05:12:14 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I don't care what you say, Cameron and Osborne LIED. Just like Cameron LIED about staying on as PM. It is probably those lies that lead many people like me to vote remain, probably resulting in the vote being closer than it would have been if those blatant lies weren't told.

selby

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #77 on September 22, 2021, 05:20:15 pm by selby »
  Wilts, you forgot about a European army and less federalisation when you listed the lies politicians were spouting, they seem to be the flavour of the month on Europe now, the French must have found someone else they think could be in the front line while they run things now.

drfchound

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #78 on September 22, 2021, 06:05:09 pm by drfchound »
I voted to remain but am quite happy to accept that we are out now, it was after all a democratic vote.
However I don’t recall the Brexiteers telling us tha all the benefits would rush in and that we would be instantly top of the pile.
There was the big exaggeration about the £350m per week.
I doubt that many people thought Brexit benefits would be instant.


They need us more than we need them.
The German car industry will come to our rescue
UK will be first in line for a US trade deal

You don't remember any of them alongside the £350m they were insistent on saying would be coming back for the NHS? Your memory must be slipping hound. They are all easy to find, many times over, on google though to refresh yourself.

It's not leaving the EU that's at issue here - it never was - its how we left the EU and what the relationship with the EU (and the rest of the world would be afterwards. How the 'over ready, great deal' that Johnson promised he had would make the country better.




But were  they going to all come rushing in on day one as SR suggested.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #79 on September 22, 2021, 06:33:34 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I don't care what you say, Cameron and Osborne LIED. Just like Cameron LIED about staying on as PM. It is probably those lies that lead many people like me to vote remain, probably resulting in the vote being closer than it would have been if those blatant lies weren't told.

The Remain side were bang on about the substance. Brexit would cause a severe economic slowdown, the Pound would tank, inflation would rise and real wages would fall.

Every one of those came to pass.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 07:22:22 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #80 on September 22, 2021, 07:29:29 pm by Bentley Bullet »
And your refusal to accept your obsessive one-sided take on things has been typical since you started your anti-everything government agenda. Like this instance, when you claim Cameron and Osborne's claims of an instant recession, along with punishment budgets and pension reductions weren't lies, but merely predictions. Yet, Boris and co's claims of £350m for the NHS wasn't a prediction, but a lie!

Your insistence on one set of rules to suit your agendas and another set of rules to suit those against your agendas is legendary.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 07:52:44 pm by Bentley Bullet »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #81 on September 22, 2021, 08:40:26 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BB

Go on. You've roped me in. I will patiently explain why the £350m figure is simply in a different league.

1) EVERYBODY who looked at the issues knew that the consequence of a Leave vote would be a very serious economic hit. Osborne's claim that there would be a recession was technically incorrect, but we DID take the sort of economic hit that you get in a decent sized recession. His claim was made to illustrate a point. It was an overstatement based on a fundamentally correct analysis.

2) Everyone who took any time to look at the issues knew that we didn't give £350m/week to the EU, even before the net benefits that we got from the EU were taken into account. It was a fraudulent claim. Cummings KNEW it was fraudulent. He's on record as saying it was a deliberate tactic, to so enrage the other side that it would throw them off balance. The lie was the whole point. He deliberately poisoned the debate by having the cheek to make such a knowingly fraudulent claim.

Comparing the two is simply ridiculous.

belton rover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #82 on September 22, 2021, 09:08:32 pm by belton rover »
‘Go on. You've roped me in. I will patiently explain’

That’s Billy speak for ‘let me jump on my soap box as I attempt to condescend, ridicule, and belittle. I shall pretend I don’t really want to do it, but the truth is I need this to give me a sense of meaning’

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #83 on September 22, 2021, 09:28:33 pm by Bentley Bullet »
BST. I've just had a thought. Are you that 'Insulate Britain' motorway Eco-warrior bloke who was on GMTV today? It's just that you share the same annoying condescending attitude that makes me think there can't be two people in the world as patronising as that.

Right back to the main topic. Why do you ignore my point? What I said was I can't understand for the life of me why the £350m NHS bus slogan is claimed to be such a clincher in the outcome of the result, when the blatant scaremongering employed by the Remainers was, in my opinion, far more influential in making people decide to vote remain.

Yeah? No?

 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 09:37:20 pm by Bentley Bullet »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #84 on September 22, 2021, 09:47:19 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BB
The point is, if you read my post, what you call "scaremongering" was based on honest analysis, and broadly came to pass. We HAVE  had a massive economic hit due to the vote. We HAVE had a huge hit to public finances. You have been determined for 5 years now to ignore that. Do you actually accept that we have had these problems as a result of the vote? Maybe that's the issue.

The £350m claim was known by those who ran with it to be fraudulent. They didn't shout that number to inform debate. They did it, by their own admission to wind up the other side.

On a topic as important and divisive as this one, with no chance of revisiting the decision for a generation, that was a disgraceful thing to do.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #85 on September 22, 2021, 10:06:41 pm by Bentley Bullet »
You say the scaremongering was based on honest analysis, I say it was scaremongering based on worse scenarios. My point is, thousands, neigh millions share my view. Scaremongering was not exclusive to Cameron and Osborne. It was rife on TV and social media 24/7 by shed loads of Remainers.


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #86 on September 22, 2021, 10:23:14 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Do you accept that we have had a serious economic hit since the vote?

SydneyRover

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #87 on September 22, 2021, 10:28:07 pm by SydneyRover »
They probably have genetic differences.
Would the strips they wear always be red and blue?
As for my political stance, I don’t have one.

Scenario ..................... a morning at the polling booth .......................... please can you help me

drfchound

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #88 on September 22, 2021, 10:30:32 pm by drfchound »
They probably have genetic differences.
Would the strips they wear always be red and blue?
As for my political stance, I don’t have one.

Scenario ..................... a morning at the polling booth .......................... please can you help me





I have already told you,  I don’t go to the polling booths.
By the way, you seem to be constantly trolling my posts.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: The cost of Brexit
« Reply #89 on September 22, 2021, 10:32:25 pm by Bentley Bullet »
An economic hit was expected after the vote.
Do you accept that we have had a serious economic hit since the vote?

An economic hit was expected after the vote.

 

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