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Author Topic: Levelling up  (Read 3805 times)

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BillyStubbsTears

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Levelling up
« on September 20, 2021, 01:05:45 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
£1.1bn for a project that resulted in two new tube stations in London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58621491

£18bn spent on Crossrail.

Crossrail 2 going ahead at an estimated £30-40bn.

And up here?
HS2 cancelled.
HS3 still at chattering stage.
East Mids mainline electrification postponed indefinitely.
South Yorks - Manchester motorway vaguely talked about as something for the second half of the century.

Levelling up, eh? Got a f**king long way to go.



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SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #1 on September 20, 2021, 10:28:53 pm by SydneyRover »
Looks like 'Levelling up' was just another aid to sales from the tories, get into government and make it up as you go along.

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #2 on October 22, 2021, 10:15:08 pm by SydneyRover »
Doncaster, back on the agenda again, levelling up two years after the promise, if you can eat a white paper, hang on it's coming.

''Levelling up: What does it mean for people in Yorkshire?''

The Labour mayors of West and South Yorkshire have warned that the Conservative's "levelling up" campaign needs to be more than just a slogan.

''Since appearing in the party's 2019 election-winning manifesto, the term has featured heavily in press releases, sound bites, interviews and social media posts.

Ahead of the Autumn Budget on Wednesday, BBC Yorkshire's Political Editor James Vincent takes a look to see if it's having any impact on the region and what it might mean in the long-term.

Levelling up was a huge deal during the 2019 General Election, helping the Conservatives win seats in Doncaster and Rotherham that they'd never won before.''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-58985251

It's as vague as what brexit meant apparently.


River Don

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #3 on October 22, 2021, 11:11:50 pm by River Don »
Whatever way you look at it there has been for a longtime a massive bias towards the south east.

Perhaps that's not so bad, so long as there is the opportunity for Northerners to move south.

Maybe the North is done? Maybe the rescources are gone? Maybe?

I'm not trying to provoke. It's just an observation.

And if that is reality, how does the North progress now?

The only reason I say this, is I know so many people who have moved South.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 11:25:04 pm by River Don »

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #4 on October 23, 2021, 12:00:28 am by Bentley Bullet »
RD, wouldn't you think the North/South divide would have evened up a little after nigh on half a century of being a member of the European block?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #5 on October 23, 2021, 12:21:34 am by BillyStubbsTears »
RD, wouldn't you think the North/South divide would have evened up a little after nigh on half a century of being a member of the European block?

Theresa limited amount that membership of the EU can do to counteract sovereign domestic policies. But it can do something.

By the late 1990s, after a generation of the Tories being in power, South Yorkshire was one of the poorest regions in the whole EU. Which is why the EU gave us Objective One status and poured European money into our economy. That's why we got the Frenchgate Centre for example. And direct support to 11,000 businesses in South Yorkshire.

By the late 2000s, with £2.5bn of EU funds, supported by investment from the Labour Govt, South Yorkshire was well out of the list of poorest areas.

Then...Tory Austerity. And guess what? By 2020, we were back in the poorest group, and would have received £3.3bm from EU rich areas if we hadn't told them to shove it.

But sovereignty, eh? Doubtless, now that we've taken back control, Whitehall will be pouring money into South Yorkshire again...

River Don

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #6 on October 23, 2021, 12:39:23 am by River Don »
RD, wouldn't you think the North/South divide would have evened up a little after nigh on half a century of being a member of the European block?

I don't know.

I think the underlying problem is the North had a vast wealth of rescources, that helped spark the industrial revolution. But when that wealth diminished, because those rescources were becoming uncompetitive... Then what's left?

Geographically the area loses out. If it's better connected, then it might do a bit better. But it's not going to regain anything like its past glory I don't think. It was a moment in time.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 12:42:32 am by River Don »

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #7 on October 23, 2021, 01:39:25 am by SydneyRover »
For a long time in 'the north' lower earnings were offset by lower property prices, it didn't help much with social mobility as you couldn't sell a home around Donny and buy down south. Since property prices have outstripped wages all that has gone. Faster train services if unreliable and expensive put parts of 'the north' within commuter distance of the capital, again not helped when those south of the rio grand (watford gap servo) thought it was a good idea too.

All up it's going to be a busy time with thousands of coppers and nurses still to hired, 40 hospitals to be built, NHS to be funded and high wages for everyone. Oh and levelling up.

BigH

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #8 on October 23, 2021, 09:34:29 am by BigH »
RD, wouldn't you think the North/South divide would have evened up a little after nigh on half a century of being a member of the European block?
You would and it was actually starting to happen as Objective One money was earmarked from the EU.

However Rees-Mogg and his nutty mates didn't like this one jot. For pretty obvious reasons. That's another reason why he's so pleased with the Brexit outcome. The control of the purse strings and which regions get what is now firmly with the UK Government. If you're a solid Labour-voting area you'll get diddly squat.


wilts rover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #9 on October 23, 2021, 01:22:17 pm by wilts rover »
What does levelling up mean to you?

To the Dept of Levelling Up it means assisting people to purchase a £9.5 million penthouse in Battersea:

https://twitter.com/AydinDikerdem/status/1451506455127920640

Metalmicky

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #10 on October 23, 2021, 07:46:04 pm by Metalmicky »
This might help with the leveling up...... ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503

tyke1962

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #11 on October 23, 2021, 08:35:18 pm by tyke1962 »
Expecting any government to level up whether they be Tory or Labour is  in all honesty laughable .

The only way to get a fair piece of the crust respective to the sector you work in is through collectivism or joining a trade union .

There's a pretty solid reason London Tube Drivers get £60k plus per anum
and that's because the vast majority of em are members of the RMT .

Nobody in the Tory and very few in the  Labour party cares about the poorly paid .

They never have including Wilson , Callaghan and Blair .

Don't look to politicians to improve your lot you need to do that yourselves .

BigH

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #12 on October 23, 2021, 08:39:35 pm by BigH »
This might help with the leveling up...... ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503
It will but the big question that's still to be answered is when will there be a high speed rail link that broadly tracks the M62 corridor from Liverpool to Hull?

It would lead to a northern conurbation roughly on a par with the S East.

tyke1962

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #13 on October 23, 2021, 09:37:48 pm by tyke1962 »
Burnham's just got a billion quid tonight for Manchester according to what I've read tonight .

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #14 on October 23, 2021, 09:46:19 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
This might help with the leveling up...... ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503

Compare that to what has already been agreed for Crossrail 2 alone.

£33bn.

London gets two state of the art underground railway lines. South Yorkshire gets a new roundabout in Barnsley and investment in a tram system used by under 3% of the SY population.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #15 on October 23, 2021, 09:50:01 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Don't get me wrong. This is better than nothing. But when all the current investment is over, public transport in SY will be even further behind that in London than it is now.

That's not "levelling up". It's "Pulling further apart".

drfchound

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #16 on October 23, 2021, 10:23:49 pm by drfchound »
If ever HS2 ever gets up to Yorkshire that will be another project that gets used by something like 3% of the SY population.

tyke1962

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #17 on October 23, 2021, 11:08:28 pm by tyke1962 »
If ever HS2 ever gets up to Yorkshire that will be another project that gets used by something like 3% of the SY population.

Absolutely totally correct Hound .

The workers in your town who clock on at Amazon won't benefit directly one bit .

Same argument as free movement within the EU .

The capability to earn a living in the EU and enjoy all the trappings was limited to a very small percentage .

But lets not talk about class as it's the truth that isn't allowed to speak it's name .

Sat in your dining room working from home on a lap top is totally different to having to go in to work on a bus or train to do a shift at a care home or an Amazon facility with covid 19 around .

Nobody cares Hound with the two major party's .

Levelling up ?

I'm afraid the real people will have to do that themselves .


Filo

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #18 on October 23, 2021, 11:21:02 pm by Filo »
If ever HS2 ever gets up to Yorkshire that will be another project that gets used by something like 3% of the SY population.

Absolutely totally correct Hound .

The workers in your town who clock on at Amazon won't benefit directly one bit .

Same argument as free movement within the EU .

The capability to earn a living in the EU and enjoy all the trappings was limited to a very small percentage .

But lets not talk about class as it's the truth that isn't allowed to speak it's name .

Sat in your dining room working from home on a lap top is totally different to having to go in to work on a bus or train to do a shift at a care home or an Amazon facility with covid 19 around .

Nobody cares Hound with the two major party's .

Levelling up ?

I'm afraid the real people will have to do that themselves .



If you get a bus to work at amazon at the iport, its at least a 20 minute walk to the furthest warehouse, there are no bus stops anywhere at the iport

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #19 on October 23, 2021, 11:25:26 pm by SydneyRover »
Aim low, then you'll never be disappointed.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #20 on October 23, 2021, 11:33:57 pm by Sprotyrover »
If ever HS2 ever gets up to Yorkshire that will be another project that gets used by something like 3% of the SY population.

Absolutely totally correct Hound .

The workers in your town who clock on at Amazon won't benefit directly one bit .

Same argument as free movement within the EU .

The capability to earn a living in the EU and enjoy all the trappings was limited to a very small percentage .

But lets not talk about class as it's the truth that isn't allowed to speak it's name .

Sat in your dining room working from home on a lap top is totally different to having to go in to work on a bus or train to do a shift at a care home or an Amazon facility with covid 19 around .

Nobody cares Hound with the two major party's .

Levelling up ?

I'm afraid the real people will have to do that themselves .


Surely that's an issue for Amazon, I doubt the VW workforce internal transport system is Government funded!
Just look up Volkswagen Karrie then start slagging off Bezzos rather than Boris!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 11:38:03 pm by Sprotyrover »

tyke1962

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #21 on October 23, 2021, 11:57:42 pm by tyke1962 »
If ever HS2 ever gets up to Yorkshire that will be another project that gets used by something like 3% of the SY population.

Absolutely totally correct Hound .

The workers in your town who clock on at Amazon won't benefit directly one bit .

Same argument as free movement within the EU .

The capability to earn a living in the EU and enjoy all the trappings was limited to a very small percentage .

But lets not talk about class as it's the truth that isn't allowed to speak it's name .

Sat in your dining room working from home on a lap top is totally different to having to go in to work on a bus or train to do a shift at a care home or an Amazon facility with covid 19 around .

Nobody cares Hound with the two major party's .

Levelling up ?

I'm afraid the real people will have to do that themselves .


Surely that's an issue for Amazon, I doubt the VW workforce internal transport system is Government funded!
Just look up Volkswagen Karrie then start slagging off Bezzos rather than Boris!

In as much as it was an issue for Morgan Stanley , JP Morgan or Citigroup in Canary Wharf to contribute towards The Docklands Light Railway you mean ?

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #22 on October 24, 2021, 12:26:18 am by SydneyRover »
I remember not so long ago many telling me that rail was never a good substitute for trucks to get containers off the roads, my argument was that the bulk of containers should be moved by rail and only the last bit by road. It saves building endless roads and leaves roads free for those without options. iport, I see only needs a fork trucks to move containers the last bit.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #23 on October 24, 2021, 01:06:50 pm by Sprotyrover »
I believe that was the idea behind inland rail ports, but the transport industry is so ingrained in moving stuff by road it's a joke, during the Second World War the roads were so poor that something like 80% of all goods went by Sea on the massive fleet of small coasters that existed hence the massive air and sea battles off The Kentish Coast. Then we turn to roads!
A few years ago it was mooted that it would make sense to load all of the containers which arrive at Felixstowe and Southampton, which have been at Sea for months onto same coasters and transport then virtually anywhere in the country via our excellent Canal Network.
The Don can take Euro Barges up to 700 tons as far as Rotherham and 400 tons up to Sheffield.
220 feet long by 20 feet wide. I bet that about 20 Containers on each barge.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 01:16:10 pm by Sprotyrover »

roversdude

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #24 on October 24, 2021, 04:01:09 pm by roversdude »
Think the i port  is getting a new bridge for the bus service that’ll be all we get

scawsby steve

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #25 on October 24, 2021, 08:40:14 pm by scawsby steve »
I believe that was the idea behind inland rail ports, but the transport industry is so ingrained in moving stuff by road it's a joke, during the Second World War the roads were so poor that something like 80% of all goods went by Sea on the massive fleet of small coasters that existed hence the massive air and sea battles off The Kentish Coast. Then we turn to roads!
A few years ago it was mooted that it would make sense to load all of the containers which arrive at Felixstowe and Southampton, which have been at Sea for months onto same coasters and transport then virtually anywhere in the country via our excellent Canal Network.
The Don can take Euro Barges up to 700 tons as far as Rotherham and 400 tons up to Sheffield.
220 feet long by 20 feet wide. I bet that about 20 Containers on each barge.

You're right about our excellent canal network.

BB and Wolfie were telling me about the time when the barges were pulled by horses.

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #26 on October 24, 2021, 09:23:32 pm by SydneyRover »
Containers could be floated up and the tow path used once again

River Don

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #27 on October 24, 2021, 09:30:29 pm by River Don »
There's a tanker that goes up the river Don regularly, carrying some sort of fuel I guess. That's the only real commercial traffic using it at the moment.

Tesco use the Manchester ship canal I believe.

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #28 on October 24, 2021, 10:12:00 pm by SydneyRover »
Burnley, not fc but just add a few more letters and you'll get the idea. I would think that there are areas large and small like this across the country. When Sunak brings down his budget have a think whether or not people the circumstances such as this will be helped.

''He has also seen a striking increase in alcoholism. “That’s due to the pandemic. Many, many people have lost money and relationships and businesses because of Covid. And the timeframe between when help’s needed and when people might get it – in that gap, people die. That’s something we see more of.”''

''“Because of the way things are sometimes portrayed and the way people think about the current prime minister, we think that they’ve been in power for two years,” he says. “But when they talk about levelling up … well, what we actually want are things that they took away.”''

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/24/weve-been-hammered-on-the-breadline-in-burnley-covid-universal-credit
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 10:17:47 pm by SydneyRover »

SydneyRover

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Re: Levelling up
« Reply #29 on October 24, 2021, 10:49:59 pm by SydneyRover »
Thinking about the article I posted above about Burnley a good line for labour to throw at the tories would be ........... Build back what you broke!

 

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