Should Starmer Resign?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Just imagine BB,

You could admit your man is flawed. I'm not asking you to change your political beliefs. You could just accept he's not perfect, it's staring you in the face.

It might be easier to argue that his failures can be forgiven because he makes up for it in other ways. I don't want to lead the witness but that's the line some Tory MPs are taking.

I've said Johnson has made mistakes, and of course, he's flawed. It is probably his buffoonish persona that has got him to be PM. But I'm f**ked if I'm gonna join BST & co's constant abuse of him and the Tory party, especially when BST's blatant one-sided biasedness takes him to new heights of hypocrisy like it has on this thread.

Now, to put the record straight, Johnson is not 'my man', and I would only vote for him if the only alternative was Labour.

What a beautiful example of blatant BB one-sided biassedness.

Now then, what was that you were bleating about hypocrisy?

[drfchound]

Just imagine BB,

You could admit your man is flawed. I'm not asking you to change your political beliefs. You could just accept he's not perfect, it's staring you in the face.

It might be easier to argue that his failures can be forgiven because he makes up for it in other ways. I don't want to lead the witness but that's the line some Tory MPs are taking.

I've said Johnson has made mistakes, and of course, he's flawed. It is probably his buffoonish persona that has got him to be PM. But I'm f**ked if I'm gonna join BST & co's constant abuse of him and the Tory party, especially when BST's blatant one-sided biasedness takes him to new heights of hypocrisy like it has on this thread.

Now, to put the record straight, Johnson is not 'my man', and I would only vote for him if the only alternative was Labour.

What a beautiful example of blatant BB one-sided biassedness.

Now then, what was that you were bleating about hypocrisy?

Of course you Glyn, are not biased at all.

[River Don]

According to the Sun, it looks like one of the students who witnessed the event is prepared to make a statement that it was a drinks party not a meal.

That could be very tricky.

[drfchound]

That can’t possibly be true RD.
He will be a rigged Tory voter, brown envelopes and all that sort of stuff.

[SydneyRover]

According to the Sun, it looks like one of the students who witnessed the event is prepared to make a statement that it was a drinks party not a meal.

That could be very tricky.

It should all be on the video they were there long enough RD, not sure why it wouldn't have been seen before.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Just imagine BB,

You could admit your man is flawed. I'm not asking you to change your political beliefs. You could just accept he's not perfect, it's staring you in the face.

It might be easier to argue that his failures can be forgiven because he makes up for it in other ways. I don't want to lead the witness but that's the line some Tory MPs are taking.

I've said Johnson has made mistakes, and of course, he's flawed. It is probably his buffoonish persona that has got him to be PM. But I'm f**ked if I'm gonna join BST & co's constant abuse of him and the Tory party, especially when BST's blatant one-sided biasedness takes him to new heights of hypocrisy like it has on this thread.

Now, to put the record straight, Johnson is not 'my man', and I would only vote for him if the only alternative was Labour.

What a beautiful example of blatant BB one-sided biassedness.

Now then, what was that you were bleating about hypocrisy?

Of course you Glyn, are not biased at all.

Nobody isn't. But I'm not the one bleating about hypocrisy am I?

[drfchound]

Just imagine BB,

You could admit your man is flawed. I'm not asking you to change your political beliefs. You could just accept he's not perfect, it's staring you in the face.

It might be easier to argue that his failures can be forgiven because he makes up for it in other ways. I don't want to lead the witness but that's the line some Tory MPs are taking.

I've said Johnson has made mistakes, and of course, he's flawed. It is probably his buffoonish persona that has got him to be PM. But I'm f**ked if I'm gonna join BST & co's constant abuse of him and the Tory party, especially when BST's blatant one-sided biasedness takes him to new heights of hypocrisy like it has on this thread.

Now, to put the record straight, Johnson is not 'my man', and I would only vote for him if the only alternative was Labour.

What a beautiful example of blatant BB one-sided biassedness.

Now then, what was that you were bleating about hypocrisy?

Of course you Glyn, are not biased at all.

Nobody isn't. But I'm not the one bleating about hypocrisy am I?

No, you were bleating about one sided bias. 

[Branton Red]

Branton.

No. It's not. If work was carried out DURING the meal, that suffices.

Simply incorrect and Starmer himself agrees see www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61362474

"The Labour leader has maintained the visit was a work event, and that the food and drink was consumed in between doing work, so was within the rules."

 "He has also previously insisted he returned to work afterwards."

If this is so where is the proof? E-mails sent, computer files saved down, CCTV of him leaving the office. If his assertion is true some such evidence must exist to back it up. Why haven't Labour exonerated him by publishing such evidence?

There can only be one plausible explanation.

This is now backed up by this memo coming to light www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/politics/179032/mail-on-sunday-exclusive-keir-starmers-beergate-story-blown-apart-by-leaked-memo

Not looking good is it?

[River Don]

There's one obvious question to ask the dozen (not 30) attending. How many drinks did you have?

If it's more than one and definitely more than two, he's done for.

[Branton Red]

Branton.

No. It's not. If work was carried out DURING the meal, that suffices.

Simply incorrect and Starmer himself agrees see www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61362474

"The Labour leader has maintained the visit was a work event, and that the food and drink was consumed in between doing work, so was within the rules."

 "He has also previously insisted he returned to work afterwards."

If this is so where is the proof? E-mails sent, computer files saved down, CCTV of him leaving the office. If his assertion is true some such evidence must exist to back it up. Why haven't Labour exonerated him by publishing such evidence?

There can only be one plausible explanation.

Which is now backed up by this memo coming to light www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/politics/179032/mail-on-sunday-exclusive-keir-starmers-beergate-story-blown-apart-by-leaked-memo

Not looking good is it?

[SydneyRover]

I'd be taking a deep breath, quit the amateur detective work and wait for the police to determine what is what, staking ones reputation on what the mail, the sun or both pumps out would get you good odds at the bookies I'd bet.

[River Don]

Apparently his own legal advisor reckons it's 60/40 whether he gets a fine or not.

[SydneyRover]

apparently?

[River Don]

apparently?

I said that because I read it in a paper yesterday but I can't provide a link to it.

[SydneyRover]

If you can't provide a link could you hazard a guess why anyone's let alone Starmer's legal advisor release confidential information to the media? unless it was rock solid in their clients favour of course.

[River Don]

I don't know Syd, I only skimmed it but I remember 60%. It might have been attributed to Faulkner, is he his advisor?

[SydneyRover]

dunno, it's not my story RD

[River Don]

Personally I think the problem comes down to the way the meal was consumed.

It was brought to the kitchen and people were in and out, grabbing a bite to eat, maybe standing whilst eating. Not a sit down meal around a table.

At least that's what it looks like from the pictures I have seen.

Which might be fine if it's a working meal.

But the question mark is how much alcohol was consumed? It could quite easily be viewed as a party if it's too much.

[SydneyRover]

This is why I have problems with the scenario so far RD, it's a scenario and someone, maybe the police will explain how many drinks one is allowed in any particular situation and prove how many drinks any particular person consumed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Branton.

No. It's not. If work was carried out DURING the meal, that suffices.

Simply incorrect and Starmer himself agrees see www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61362474

"The Labour leader has maintained the visit was a work event, and that the food and drink was consumed in between doing work, so was within the rules."

 "He has also previously insisted he returned to work afterwards."

If this is so where is the proof? E-mails sent, computer files saved down, CCTV of him leaving the office. If his assertion is true some such evidence must exist to back it up. Why haven't Labour exonerated him by publishing such evidence?

There can only be one plausible explanation.

This is now backed up by this memo coming to light www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/politics/179032/mail-on-sunday-exclusive-keir-starmers-beergate-story-blown-apart-by-leaked-memo

Not looking good is it?

Well someone in Starmer's team was working after 10pm that night. Check out the time on this tweet..
https://mobile.twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1388240092398071809

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll say again. If the police conclude that Starmer broke the rules, he has to go.

But just for context, for those who like to say they are all the same, remember this is what we already know about No10 parties.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HelenTeeDubU/status/1523221202940362752/photo/1

And not a single person has resigned.

[River Don]

dunno, it's not my story RD

Found it, it was Lord Falconer and the story was in the Mail.

It's attributed to 'a source' so make of it what you will.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10792253/Keir-Starmer-tells-colleagues-QUIT-gets-Covid-fine.html

[SydneyRover]

Sorry can't open the mail RD

I'm not being smart RD there's quite a few things that I cannot open that those in the UK can.

[River Don]

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has reportedly told colleagues he will have to quit if he gets a Covid fine over the Beergate investigation by Durham Police.

Reports from political website Guido Fawkes suggest Starmer is so concerned about the outcome of the investigation he has asked Labour peer and former Justice Secretary Lord Falconer to put together a legal defence team.

A source told the website: '[Starmer] has told people he will have to go if he's fined.'

The source added: 'He's put his fate in the hands of the police and lawyers now.'

The news site suggests Starmer's lawyers have said there is a 60 per cent chance he will escape the investigation without a fine.

[SydneyRover]

Thanks RD, I did add to my comment above, but again I would wonder why his lawyer would release this and to GF of all people.

[River Don]

I don't think Falconer did release it Syd. It appears to have been leaked by a source.

[SydneyRover]

I don't think Falconer did release it Syd. It appears to have been leaked by a source.

I don't want to be a bb about this but unless the quote came directly from a named source, at this point in time as it comes from GF site a pinch of salt would be required.

[River Don]

I don't think Falconer did release it Syd. It appears to have been leaked by a source.

I don't want to be a bb about this but unless the quote came directly from a named source, at this point in time as it comes from GF site a pinch of salt would be required.

Fair enough Syd.

I think given what we know a 60% chance looks about right, so I wouldn't be surprised if the source is genuine.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Just imagine BB,

You could admit your man is flawed. I'm not asking you to change your political beliefs. You could just accept he's not perfect, it's staring you in the face.

It might be easier to argue that his failures can be forgiven because he makes up for it in other ways. I don't want to lead the witness but that's the line some Tory MPs are taking.

I've said Johnson has made mistakes, and of course, he's flawed. It is probably his buffoonish persona that has got him to be PM. But I'm f**ked if I'm gonna join BST & co's constant abuse of him and the Tory party, especially when BST's blatant one-sided biasedness takes him to new heights of hypocrisy like it has on this thread.

Now, to put the record straight, Johnson is not 'my man', and I would only vote for him if the only alternative was Labour.

What a beautiful example of blatant BB one-sided biassedness.

Now then, what was that you were bleating about hypocrisy?

Of course you Glyn, are not biased at all.

Nobody isn't. But I'm not the one bleating about hypocrisy am I?

No, you were bleating about one sided bias. 

No I wasn't, I was bleating about how hypocritical it was of that particular person to be bleating about one-sided bias.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So (to correct what I'd said before) Starmer had been campaigning in other towns in the North before going to Durham.

It appears he arrived in Durham around 7pm.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeLLeeks/status/1388192400917532673

My understanding is that he was campaigning in the NE the next day. When LotO goes campaigning it's a big thing. Local MPs will want to make the best of it. Presumably that required some planning. Given that the timetabled meal began at 20:40 in the local MP's office,  and given that he appears to have had at least some other activities before that time (the Mail conveniently cut most of those) he didn't have a great deal of time to be doing any work BEFORE eating.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1523179736104505345

The idea then that this was a social event rather than a working dinner stretches credibility just a bit.

And remember, the Met has established the principle that politicians and their staff eating and drinking alcohol while working (like below) was, so far from being a breach, not even worthy of investigation. Even when the PM's wife joined them.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/81492860b5b6ce0c311e25db6b6e2bf2536b992f/0_0_1826_2100/master/1826.jpg?width=465&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=528fa64b91ece4e4e4c9227fb7e3ffc2