Should Starmer Resign?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The tories are wanting to explore a truce with Labour over beergate. Don't talk about these things anymore and the public will forget.

Starmer however is considering announcing he will resign if he is fined.

That's a good option for Starmer.  It's still quite a stretch that he will be fined I think, unless there's much more evidence we haven't seen and it really hammers it home that he's more principled than Boris Johnson on this (though that's not hard).

[Bentley Bullet]

Why should such a fine, upstanding, law-abiding, leading statesman of Starmer's quality have to consider it before doing the decent thing if he's fined?

He should practice what he has preached and resign after being made the subject of a police investigation.

[River Don]

Statement at 4pm - Starmer WILL pledge he will resign if found to have breached rules.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The tories are wanting to explore a truce with Labour over beergate. Don't talk about these things anymore and the public will forget.

Starmer however is considering announcing he will resign if he is fined.

Apparently he's going to announce at 4pm today that he  will resign if fined.

Tory MPs' WhatsApp group don't like this...

https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1523351253383741440

[Ldr]

That’s a smart move from Starmer, I’d say he’s been told he’s exonerated

[Ldr]

here we go again Ldr why not start a new thread and try not to use your enmity for bst and dislike of Starmer to cloud your judgement as he's not going to be found in breach of covid rules for his deputy being there, eating a curry or even having a beer is he?

Tbh Syd I think I’m looking for a reason to vote Labour, and to that extent I’d love Starmer gone and someone like Raynor or Phillips in place (aye)

[selby]

If he goes those two have a good chance of going with him especially Raynor

[Ldr]

If he goes those two have a good chance of going with him especially Raynor

I think Raynor would have to given she was at the same event

[River Don]

Raynor would be a dreadful choice of Labour leader anyway, not tactful enough by half.

[Ldr]

Raynor would be a dreadful choice of Labour leader anyway, not tactful enough by half.

I like straight talkers RD

[wilts rover]

That’s a smart move from Starmer, I’d say he’s been told he’s exonerated

Doubt it. They have a least 30 witnesses to interview (according to people here), plus the hotel, the restaurant that provided the take-away etc.

But it does put a lot more pressure on Durham Police tho, knowing what will happen if they do decide to fine him - having already said they dont issue retrospective fines to anyone why did they to Starmer when they wouldn't Cummings (who admitted he lied)? Big political decision for them.

[River Don]

Raynor would be a dreadful choice of Labour leader anyway, not tactful enough by half.

I like straight talkers RD

There's straight talkers and there's loud mouths. She'd soon have her foot in her mouth.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That’s a smart move from Starmer, I’d say he’s been told he’s exonerated

YOU would.

[Ldr]

That’s a smart move from Starmer, I’d say he’s been told he’s exonerated

YOU would.

Not sure I follow the attempted dig mate

[danumdon]

Ive got a feeling he's quite happy to fall on his sward as he's proved to be a very dour and uninspiring leader of the opposition. Or he could do the kamikaze thing, resign and try to bring Johnson down with him.

I'm hoping he does because if anything we need the shake up to happen right now, This government is dying on its feet and Labour don't have the personnel to pick up on it and run at them. Somebody like a Raynor or a Nandy would be the biggest own goal this opposition could ever grant the Tory's.

[normal rules]

If Starmer were to resign, then Rayner would have to go with him surely? She was at the same do.
There is no way she could replace him.

[normal rules]

Starmer has seen a exit door open where he can walk through it with perceived honour and dignity. This could be a good play by him. He is not the most inspiring person to lead the Labour Party into the next GE.
Step forward Diane Abbott. Lol.

[ravenrover]

A lie is a lie end of, Tory or Labour. You are excelling yourself at whataboutery on this thread lets go here then lets go there so by your anaysis you can't call someone a liar in case you might tell or have told a lie, classic BB

Now you're resorting to talking bullshit RR. To accuse ME of whataboutery when people whose side you're on use it by default in response to many a post, but you completely ignore, is....well....bullshit.

Whose side, as you put it, do you think I'm on? You will probably be badly mistaken.
But as you say and know very well if it looks like it and smells like it must be bullsh!t get the insults in early and it will all gloss over.
Classic BB, whataboutery, change the subject, don't answer the question if you can wriggle out of it bit like the PM you so blindly support.
If Starmer goes should the PM, of course not in your BBworld because a lie is not a lie if it comes from the mouth of the PM now who is the hypocrite

[BillyStubbsTears]

That’s a smart move from Starmer, I’d say he’s been told he’s exonerated

YOU would.

Not sure I follow the attempted dig mate

Because you don't believe that politicians have morals and courage. So you assume he is cheating and has been told he's going to be exonerated.

[danumdon]

If Starmer were to resign, then Rayner would have to go with him surely? She was at the same do.
There is no way she could replace him.

But dont you see, this is the Labour narrative, they make great issue of how the Johnson is a cheat and a liar, (true) but they did the same in deciding not to make clear when they should of that Raynor was also present, if that was not being duplicitous and snide then i don't know what planet they believe the inhabit.

No better than the tories and in this case worse as they try to make out they are the honest ones in parliament.

[Ldr]

That’s a smart move from Starmer, I’d say he’s been told he’s exonerated

YOU would.

Not sure I follow the attempted dig mate

Because you don't believe that politicians have morals and courage. So you assume he is cheating and has been told he's going to be exonerated.

Ah right, yes that’s correct

[BillyStubbsTears]

If Starmer were to resign, then Rayner would have to go with him surely? She was at the same do.
There is no way she could replace him.

But dont you see, this is the Labour narrative, they make great issue of how the Johnson is a cheat and a liar, (true) but they did the same in deciding not to make clear when they should of that Raynor was also present, if that was not being duplicitous and snide then i don't know what planet they believe the inhabit.

No better than the tories and in this case worse as they try to make out they are the honest ones in parliament.

Other than the Mail journalist who asked the question of a junior staffer back in January, literally no-one knew that anyone in the Labour party had said Rayner wasn't at that meeting until about ten days ago. Then when it suddenly blew up, Labour admitted there'd been a mistake.

That's been spun into "Starmer consistently denied Rayner was present". There was a Tory MP on R4 last night saying exactly that. When, as far as I can see, Starmer was never involved in the discussion.

There are low level questions and answers between journalist and junior press office staff of every party 50 times a day. Inevitably, some of those exchanges will be less than perfect. Calling that "duplicitous" is a ridiculous over-reaction. It is an abuse of language that means there's no space for properly criticising concerted, consistent, deliberate lying. Which, of course, is the whole point. Insist they are all the same then you don't have to do the hard stuff of identifying the really dangerous liars.

[Ldr]

BST, do you not think its a smart play though to put pressure on the police, in effect playing chicken with them?

[danumdon]

BST, could you tell me how many Labour Mp's have been investigated for fiddling their expenses in comparison with their Tory counterparts, or would that be a ridiculous overreaction meaning there's no space for criticising deliberate lying.

In my book if you fiddle the general public by lying or out of public funds then you are duplicitous and snide, because then we are comparing like for like.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DD.
Anyone who deliberately fiddles expenses is a t**t who should be held to account.

What the f**k has that got to do with what we are talking about?

[River Don]

This is quite clever of the Labour Party, even if it was the only good option open to them.

It takes the heat off Starmer and puts the spotlight back on Johnson.

It allows Starmer to occupy the moral high ground again whilst Johnson cannot call for Starmer to resign.

If Starmer is exonerated he comes out of it with his standing enhance and by contrast Johnsons diminished.

If he's forced to resign, the Labour Party are still seen to have done the right thing in stark contrast to Johnson and the Torys. The only draw back being losing the leader but then they might still find a more effective candidate.

[danumdon]

Just to let it sink into your big swede, No party in parliament has a monopoly on the truth.

To hear you rant on we are governed by the devil incarnate and the opposition are all sweet angels.

[danumdon]

Raynor would be a dreadful choice of Labour leader anyway, not tactful enough by half.

I like straight talkers RD

There's straight talkers and there's loud mouths. She'd soon have her foot in her mouth.

Let's hope when she does she's remembered to put her big granny drawers on!!

[River Don]

Raynor has taken the same stance as Starmer. It's likely if he goes she will too.

[albie]

My understanding is that Durham Police do not issue fines, so that is an unlikely outcome.
Starmer can still be in breach of the regulations, so if that is the case will he stand down?

All this kerfuffle is about diverting the media from Johnson and Partygate, and it has worked.

Keith has shown great political naivety in allowing this line of scrutiny to open up.
It was perfectly obvious that the rules would be tested by the media seeking a story, so why give them an opening to exploit?