Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson

[i_ateallthepies]

How many people think Starmer's a liar?

You and hound, maybe you could scape enough together for a game of brag

They wouldn't want to play Brag, Sydney.  For a start neither of them have owt to brag about and it's probably above their level.  They'd probably opt for Snap or Fish... forever making feeble attempts at equivalence or fishing for a reaction.

[River Don]

I suppose political views are driven by something akin to religious faith , but when the human manifestation of on side’s particular creed is Boris Johnson, it is immensely courageous.

Mr Sunak has assured us in the strongest of terms that his recent announcement is not intended to “make smoke”. Presumably his occupancy of the Number 10 flat did not give him any inkling of the alleged rule breaking throughout the same property. (“I say Boris there was a heck of a lot of noise again downstairs last night. What was all that about?)

When there are drunk people still wandering the building in the small hours, you'd have thought someone would have noticed. Presumably the Prime Minister or his chancellor would have noticed wine stains on the walls and carpets.

[scawsby steve]

At the end of the day, the human condition is all about self-survival. When people get into the voting booths, they ask themselves which Party is likely to make them better off.

Partygate will be forgotten in the 2024 GE, because the only thing on peoples' minds will be the cost of living crisis, how the Tory Government are dealing with it, and what the Labour alternatives are.

That's what will decide who wins in 2024.

[drfchound]

How many people think Starmer's a liar?

You and hound, maybe you could scape enough together for a game of brag

They wouldn't want to play Brag, Sydney.  For a start neither of them have owt to brag about and it's probably above their level.  They'd probably opt for Snap or Fish... forever making feeble attempts at equivalence or fishing for a reaction.

Go on then, I will bite.
It’s not like you aren’t doing what you accuse me and BB of,  that is looking for a reaction is it pies.
Just out of interest how do you know whether myself or BB have anything to brag about or not?
You and Syd are as bad as each other for posting with the intent of creating unrest on the forum.

[SydneyRover]

I think you replied to the wrong comment pud

Nope, it was a fair question.  I want to vote for a party that's actually going to make things better for us. Labour are close to that bracket now, they will win if they are positive on what they can offer. Go in on a 'we aren't them' angle and I can't see it.

I was hoping for a reply regarding my comment in taxation pud following your comment on owning shares, but there you go.

[SydneyRover]

There are tories made of the right stuff you just have to wait long enough for the letters to mount up. By the time the 1922 committee has the right number of letters johnson will have changed the rule to reward errand MPs.

[SydneyRover]

''Boris Johnson has been accused of changing the ministerial code to help “save his skin” ahead of a new Partygate inquiry that could publish more photos and subject him to a public grilling by MPs.

The prime minister faced a barrage of criticism after he amended the rules on Friday to make clear that ministers will not always be expected to resign for breaching the code of conduct. Under new sanctions, they could apologise or temporarily lose their pay instead.

Johnson also blocked his independent ethics chief, Christopher Geidt, from gaining the power to launch his own investigations, and rewrote the foreword to the ministerial code, removing all references to honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/27/boris-johnson-changes-ministerial-code-to-remove-need-to-resign-over-breaches

johnson would need a stepladder to reach a snakes belly

[River Don]

Corruption.

It's a slippery slope we're starting down.

[drfchound]

There are tories made of the right stuff you just have to wait long enough for the letters to mount up. By the time the 1922 committee has the right number of letters johnson will have changed the rule to reward errand MPs.

Will he have sent them to the shops then.

[SydneyRover]

Corruption.

It's a slippery slope we're starting down.

We have just gotten rid of Morrison, he was a liar and bent the rules wherever he could and would state black was white. On polling day he broke convention to announce a refugee boat had been turned back.

''Scott Morrison instructed Border Force to reveal election day asylum boat arrival''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-27/scott-morrison-instructed-border-force-election-day-boat/101101464

The waverers that finally put him out of his misery at the ballot box had their choices confirmed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Like Johnson's old boss said (the Editor of the Telegraph who sacked him for making up a story)
"His chaotic public persona is not an act – he is, indeed, manically disorganised about everything except his own image management. He is also a far more ruthless, and frankly nastier, figure than the public appreciates."

He is ice cold, clinically focussed on whatever he needs to do to save his career. If that means chucking on a bonfire the checks and balances  that make democracy work, so be it.

[tyke1962]

At the end of the day, the human condition is all about self-survival. When people get into the voting booths, they ask themselves which Party is likely to make them better off.

Partygate will be forgotten in the 2024 GE, because the only thing on peoples' minds will be the cost of living crisis, how the Tory Government are dealing with it, and what the Labour alternatives are.

That's what will decide who wins in 2024.

Johnson is badly damaged and on the ropes fighting for his own political survival almost every day now .

Every decision he makes is for his own personal survival which doesn't necessarily equate to what's good for the country .

Free money to pay the gas bill actually brings that recession ever closer and maybe even a depression .

Free money to keep himself in number 10 when you bear in mind this was a U turn .

So inadvertently his behaviour leads to decisions that will eventually play out at the ballot box in my opinion .

The question is whilst Johnson will lose the next election but will Labour win .

A coalition with the Dems seems the best bet .

A win with a working majority requires as you say an alternative range of policies .

[tommy toes]

This latest move by Johnson to protect himself is yet another step towards the demise of our democracy.

Our country is the victim of a far right coup and the longer this maniac remains in charge, the closer we get to sleepwalking into becoming a neo fascist state.

He's got to be stopped and all right thinking people, including moderate Conservatives, need to get together to make sure it happens.

[River Don]

Our MP is a Tory backbencher. I feel like complaining to him about this watering down of the codes of conduct.

But he's already got his letter of no confidence into the 1922 committee.

[drfchound]

RD, it seems that those letters are heading up towards the number required to force a vote.
I do think it will happen quite soon and that Johnson will be gone.
Some Labour reporters will no doubt have a party of their own to celebrate the event but in reality I think it would be a bad thing for the LP.

[BigH]

Six months ago I thought that Johnson leaving would only be about the size of the cheque that some Tory donor would cut to get rid.

Now I'm not so sure. It's starting to look like an example of Stockholm syndrome. There are still too many MPs who are scared stiff of losing their talisman.

[River Don]

I don't doubt you're right Hound,

There is always the possibility the Tories might find someone half competent as a replacement. The problem is, there isn't a clear candidate, which is holding back the process to oust Johnson.

Jeremy Hunt might be able to reboot the party but I don't think he has the backing.

I think for the well being of the country though, Johnson has got to go.

[drfchound]

I reckon it all boils down to whether the Conservative Party think they can win the next GE with Johnson as leader.

[River Don]

I reckon it all boils down to whether the Conservative Party think they can win the next GE with Johnson as leader.

Well, at the retirement flats where my Mum lives 95% of them are staunch Tories. All of them in their 80s and 90s. All of them take the Daily Mail. They all think Johnson is doing a great job.

Whether the cost of living will start to be noticed, I don't know.

The trouble is a lot of them aren't living in the real world. I mentioned to one old dear it's £3 for a cup of coffee now. She didn't believe me, saying that's an outrage £1 is enough! But she never goes out, so she doesn't know.

I think they do represent a huge demographic, with that base I'd say there is still a decent chance of Johnson being reelected, no matter what he does.

[Bentley Bullet]

Most people I talk to think Johnson has done OK under the circumstances and Starmer wouldn't have done any better, if not worse than him.

Everyone should take into account the difficulties he's encountered since he became PM.

Personally, I admire his resolve and determination and think he could become a very popular PM in future if he rides the current storm of disapproval.

[SydneyRover]

Our MP is a Tory backbencher. I feel like complaining to him about this watering down of the codes of conduct.

But he's already got his letter of no confidence into the 1922 committee.

It would be good to send it anyway RD showing your support for his stance and expressing your total dismay at johnson's further erosion of parliamentary standards.

[Filo]

Most people I talk to think Johnson has done OK under the circumstances and Starmer wouldn't have done any better, if not worse than him.

Everyone should take into account the difficulties he's encountered since he became PM.

Personally, I admire his resolve and determination and think he could become a very popular PM in future if he rides the current storm of disapproval.

Talking to yoursef doesn’t count

[Bentley Bullet]

Most people I talk to think Johnson has done OK under the circumstances and Starmer wouldn't have done any better, if not worse than him.

Everyone should take into account the difficulties he's encountered since he became PM.

Personally, I admire his resolve and determination and think he could become a very popular PM in future if he rides the current storm of disapproval.

Talking to yoursef doesn’t count

I only tend to do that when I'm on here. It's the only way I can guarantee an intelligent conversation.

[drfchound]

I reckon it all boils down to whether the Conservative Party think they can win the next GE with Johnson as leader.

Well, at the retirement flats where my Mum lives 95% of them are staunch Tories. All of them in their 80s and 90s. All of them take the Daily Mail. They all think Johnson is doing a great job.

Whether the cost of living will start to be noticed, I don't know.

The trouble is a lot of them aren't living in the real world. I mentioned to one old dear it's £3 for a cup of coffee now. She didn't believe me, saying that's an outrage £1 is enough! But she never goes out, so she doesn't know.

I think they do represent a huge demographic, with that base I'd say there is still a decent chance of Johnson being reelected, no matter what he does.

That’s interesting, about your mum and her friends RD.
Maybe that’s one of the reasons why one of our regular posters dislikes pensioners so much.

[River Don]

I think there are about 40 people in this development.

I only know of 2 who don't always vote tory. One is my mum who sometimes votes tory. She voted for Johnson but thinks she's made a mistake now. The other is a nice old lady, who used to be a nurse. She always votes Lib Dem apparently.

[wilts rover]

Most people I talk to think Johnson has done OK under the circumstances and Starmer wouldn't have done any better, if not worse than him.

Everyone should take into account the difficulties he's encountered since he became PM.

Personally, I admire his resolve and determination and think he could become a very popular PM in future if he rides the current storm of disapproval.

I guess it depends on how far the Covid Inquiry will have got onto by then?

Will the fact he was late to impose a lock-down thus costing 10'000's of uneccessary deaths and long-term illness, then imposed ruless on all the public that he felt able to ignore, be back into public conciousness?

His current unpopularity is not down to the circumstances but his judgment on them: (Brexit, NI Border, Covid lockdown, Covid loans, MP's second jobs, Paterson, lying to Parliament, the Russia Report & Russian donors, energy & food price rises etc). And there will be more to come - there always are.

If his followers think he has dealt with these situations well - and autocratic, corrupt leaders always have their followers, Putin, Trump, Mugabe etc - good luck to them because he wont change. He will try and find more divise cultural issues to keep them onside - because thats what he has done all his career.

[Bentley Bullet]

Regarding Lockdown, I suppose it all depends if the jury is going to consist of mainly pro-Lockdowners or Anti-Lockdowners.

[SydneyRover]

Most people I talk to think Johnson has done OK under the circumstances and Starmer wouldn't have done any better, if not worse than him.

Everyone should take into account the difficulties he's encountered since he became PM.

Personally, I admire his resolve and determination and think he could become a very popular PM in future if he rides the current storm of disapproval.

I guess it depends on how far the Covid Inquiry will have got onto by then?

Will the fact he was late to impose a lock-down thus costing 10'000's of uneccessary deaths and long-term illness, then imposed ruless on all the public that he felt able to ignore, be back into public conciousness?

His current unpopularity is not down to the circumstances but his judgment on them: (Brexit, NI Border, Covid lockdown, Covid loans, MP's second jobs, Paterson, lying to Parliament, the Russia Report & Russian donors, energy & food price rises etc). And there will be more to come - there always are.

If his followers think he has dealt with these situations well - and autocratic, corrupt leaders always have their followers, Putin, Trump, Mugabe etc - good luck to them because he wont change. He will try and find more divise cultural issues to keep them onside - because thats what he has done all his career.

He's a recidivist without conscience. keep the letters piling in to the MPs force them to rediscover their own backbones.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The problem is of course, when politics becomes being about power for the sake of power, what's good for the country goes out the window. We know that from how the Republicans have spent a generation smashing away at the culture war issues because they see that as their road to power, even if it f**ks up the country.

In the week when another 20 little kids were sacrificed to American obsession with the right to walk around with military grade weapons, this short piece from a brilliant University of California Professor of Economics is depressing and harrowing.

https://braddelong.substack.com/p/the-clinton-era-assault-weapons-ban?s=w

[River Don]

I heard Trump made a statement about the mass shooting. Something like_ "it's so sad, so sad but gun laws wouldn't have done anything to prevent it.

You have to marvel at the mentality,  when you only have to look at other nations with stricter gun laws to see there are far fewer shootings like it.

I doubt the mentality will ever change because gun ownership is so tied up with concepts of freedom, independence and being American.