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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 39573 times)

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SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #60 on January 25, 2022, 08:34:33 pm by SydneyRover »
A question worth asking is, what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?



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tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #61 on January 25, 2022, 08:49:41 pm by tyke1962 »
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

F*cking hell, the prospect of snake oil Chuka Umunna as Prime Minister draws ever closer.
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

There's not a chance in a million of the Tories not being in the top 2 in a General Election anytime soon. There's a core of 25-30% who will never leave them. And they are well distributed across constituencies. So it's almost inconceivable that they'd ever get much fewer that 200 seats.

Well it isn't inconceivable is it because they only won 165 seats in 1997 .

So it is possible given the damage they've contributed to themselves today is far more than in the mid 90's .



That's several worlds away. Voters used to switch in large numbers directly between Lab and Con in those days. They do it far less these days.

I haven't suggested they'd switch between Tory and Labour , I've suggested a Tory government is in danger from the Dems in their own back yard .

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #62 on January 25, 2022, 09:04:00 pm by tyke1962 »
A question worth asking is, what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

Probably dependant on any offers from the Tory government on extra funding for the Met .

That tends to be the Tory way when they need the law onside .

Thatcher didn't significantly increase the pay for police officers for nowt during those troubled times in the 80's .

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #63 on January 25, 2022, 09:22:54 pm by SydneyRover »
It wasn't planned law breaking it was spontaneous law breaking apparently.


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #64 on January 25, 2022, 09:25:57 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

F*cking hell, the prospect of snake oil Chuka Umunna as Prime Minister draws ever closer.
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

There's not a chance in a million of the Tories not being in the top 2 in a General Election anytime soon. There's a core of 25-30% who will never leave them. And they are well distributed across constituencies. So it's almost inconceivable that they'd ever get much fewer that 200 seats.

Well it isn't inconceivable is it because they only won 165 seats in 1997 .

So it is possible given the damage they've contributed to themselves today is far more than in the mid 90's .



That's several worlds away. Voters used to switch in large numbers directly between Lab and Con in those days. They do it far less these days.

I haven't suggested they'd switch between Tory and Labour , I've suggested a Tory government is in danger from the Dems in their own back yard .


They might lose the odd marginal, but you don't seem to factor in how powerful the whole Culture War concept is.

Culturally, the LDs are further removed from the Tories than Labour are.

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #65 on January 25, 2022, 09:33:46 pm by tyke1962 »
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

F*cking hell, the prospect of snake oil Chuka Umunna as Prime Minister draws ever closer.
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

There's not a chance in a million of the Tories not being in the top 2 in a General Election anytime soon. There's a core of 25-30% who will never leave them. And they are well distributed across constituencies. So it's almost inconceivable that they'd ever get much fewer that 200 seats.

Well it isn't inconceivable is it because they only won 165 seats in 1997 .

So it is possible given the damage they've contributed to themselves today is far more than in the mid 90's .



That's several worlds away. Voters used to switch in large numbers directly between Lab and Con in those days. They do it far less these days.

I haven't suggested they'd switch between Tory and Labour , I've suggested a Tory government is in danger from the Dems in their own back yard .


They might lose the odd marginal, but you don't seem to factor in how powerful the whole Culture War concept is.

Culturally, the LDs are further removed from the Tories than Labour are.

You'd be amazed how many people aren't even aware of what you describe as a culture war Billy .

Certainly not in North Shropshire recently .

Maybe it's a Labour thing , I don't know .

I have to say you seem to be lukewarm at best towards the Dems Billy .

If you want rid of the Tories then you may have to compromise .

Isn't that right .

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #66 on January 25, 2022, 09:39:09 pm by SydneyRover »
The atmosphere in #10 post partygate Grey and police inquiries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCNq19mUQ1U

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #67 on January 25, 2022, 09:39:24 pm by normal rules »
A question worth asking is, what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

The cops on the door of no 10 did nothing when Blair wagering war crimes from his living room there. And this is not a slur on Labour. My point is the cops that police Downing Street are just cops. PCs. They probably are not even detectives.
They have a simple mandate. Protect Downing Street and those that live/ work down there. Nothing else.
It would be a bit like asking a royal protection officer to arrest Prince Andrew for child sex offences. Ain’t going to happen.

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #68 on January 25, 2022, 09:40:38 pm by normal rules »
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

F*cking hell, the prospect of snake oil Chuka Umunna as Prime Minister draws ever closer.
  That is the next big question Tyke, can Labour at the moment afford Johnson to be replaced.
  He is the only subject on their agenda at the moment, Covid, The Ukraine situation, the economy, fuel poverty, the main things to the electorate not really important to them, just get rid of Johnson, and the replacement no doubt will be a much bigger problem in a couple of years time if they manage to remove him.

I think this particular Tory Party is done for personally Selby .

I think the real question is can the Labour Party beat the Dems to form a majority government ?

That is a good point tyke.
It is very possible that lots of Tory voters will switch to the Libdems.

If Labour were to stand down any candidates in traditional Tory voting constituencies it would certainly ensure in many cases as things stand today that the Tories wouldn't win enough of their traditional seats .

With the former Red Wall returning it would be a pretty close thing in my opinion between Labour and The Dems .

Whether they'd work together is of course open to debate .

There's not a chance in a million of the Tories not being in the top 2 in a General Election anytime soon. There's a core of 25-30% who will never leave them. And they are well distributed across constituencies. So it's almost inconceivable that they'd ever get much fewer that 200 seats.

Well it isn't inconceivable is it because they only won 165 seats in 1997 .

So it is possible given the damage they've contributed to themselves today is far more than in the mid 90's .



That's several worlds away. Voters used to switch in large numbers directly between Lab and Con in those days. They do it far less these days.

I haven't suggested they'd switch between Tory and Labour , I've suggested a Tory government is in danger from the Dems in their own back yard .


They might lose the odd marginal, but you don't seem to factor in how powerful the whole Culture War concept is.

Culturally, the LDs are further removed from the Tories than Labour are.

The Lib Dem’s manifesto makes for scary reading.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 09:45:32 pm by normal rules »

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #69 on January 25, 2022, 09:47:09 pm by SydneyRover »
A question worth asking is, what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

The cops on the door of no 10 did nothing when Blair wagering war crimes from his living room there. And this is not a slur on Labour. My point is the cops that police Downing Street are just cops. PCs. They probably are not even detectives.
They have a simple mandate. Protect Downing Street and those that live/ work down there. Nothing else.
It would be a bit like asking a royal protection officer to arrest Prince Andrew for child sex offences. Ain’t going to happen.

Not taking it as a slur but didn't all your undercover work tell you that it's unlikely that they were party to conversations within the building.

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #70 on January 25, 2022, 09:51:01 pm by normal rules »
It’s also quite possible that the cops working no10 had no idea there were parties taking place.
Had they known, and blew the whistle, I’d imagine they would have been found alternative employment directing traffic in Clapham.
Sometimes, in life it easier just to keep your mouth shut I guess.

drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #71 on January 25, 2022, 09:52:50 pm by drfchound »
A question worth asking is, what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

The cops on the door of no 10 did nothing when Blair wagering war crimes from his living room there. And this is not a slur on Labour. My point is the cops that police Downing Street are just cops. PCs. They probably are not even detectives.
They have a simple mandate. Protect Downing Street and those that live/ work down there. Nothing else.
It would be a bit like asking a royal protection officer to arrest Prince Andrew for child sex offences. Ain’t going to happen.

Not taking it as a slur but didn't all your undercover work tell you that it's unlikely that they were party to conversations within the building.

I think that is the point that NR is making, with reference to your “question worth asking”.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #72 on January 25, 2022, 09:53:09 pm by SydneyRover »
It’s also quite possible that the cops working no10 had no idea there were parties taking place.
Had they known, and blew the whistle, I’d imagine they would have been found alternative employment directing traffic in Clapham.
Sometimes, in life it easier just to keep your mouth shut I guess.

which goes back to my original question: ''what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #73 on January 25, 2022, 09:55:11 pm by normal rules »
It’s also quite possible that the cops working no10 had no idea there were parties taking place.
Had they known, and blew the whistle, I’d imagine they would have been found alternative employment directing traffic in Clapham.
Sometimes, in life it easier just to keep your mouth shut I guess.

which goes back to my original question: ''what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

A frontal lobotomy.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #74 on January 25, 2022, 09:56:59 pm by SydneyRover »
It’s also quite possible that the cops working no10 had no idea there were parties taking place.
Had they known, and blew the whistle, I’d imagine they would have been found alternative employment directing traffic in Clapham.
Sometimes, in life it easier just to keep your mouth shut I guess.

which goes back to my original question: ''what would it take for the coppers at #10 to take action over criminal activity by senior politicians or public servants?

A frontal lobotomy.

Yep, so much for the separation of powers, without fear or favour and all that.

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #75 on January 25, 2022, 10:04:30 pm by normal rules »
Justified, proportionate and necessary are the three key considerations I think you will find are utilised prior to anyone having their liberty taken. In downing st or anywhere else.

Of course, there are many barrack room  lawyers who would argue any or all of these conditions being met on this occasion.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #76 on January 25, 2022, 10:10:22 pm by SydneyRover »
I don't wish to drag the conversation to another point on the map but ask any non-white person subject to a stop and search if they think that criteria was used when they are 9x more likely to be the subject of one.

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #77 on January 25, 2022, 10:34:44 pm by tyke1962 »
I don't wish to drag the conversation to another point on the map but ask any non-white person subject to a stop and search if they think that criteria was used when they are 9x more likely to be the subject of one.

Problem you have there Sydney is that two thirds of knife crime commited in London is by black or other ethnic groups .

Thats a fact by the way .

Now I know there is a link between poverty and crime amongst ethnic groups , twas ever thus .

Now it isn't the police's job to solve inequality but it is there's to solve knife crime .

To stop and search more ethnic groups in tough London areas isn't necessarily racist it's just plain common sense given the facts are the facts .

I'd suggest solving inequality is the way forward but you yourself would sooner return a centrist government .

Well that doesn't solve historically what you desire .

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #78 on January 25, 2022, 10:45:13 pm by SydneyRover »
I was going to suggest that following johnson's permanent exit that all those entering-leaving #10 should be breath tested but there would have to be a major clear out of all senior staff 'in the know' and party planners.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #79 on January 25, 2022, 10:50:34 pm by SydneyRover »
yet more fodder for the cartoonists

''But Leader of the Commons Jacob Rees-Mogg told reporters the PM's leadership had been "brilliant", and the government had done "an amazing job" throughout the pandemic.

And Tory MP Sir Edward Leigh told MPs: "When Europe stands on the brink of war and there is a cost-of-living crisis, can we please have a sense of proportion over the prime minister being given a piece of cake in his own office by his own staff?"''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60123850

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #80 on January 25, 2022, 11:27:03 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
This is a good one.

It appears according to a source in the Treasury, that Sunak was also at the birthday party. But he thought he was attending a COVID strategy meeting.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #81 on January 25, 2022, 11:28:43 pm by SydneyRover »
''Breaches of Covid rules normally result in a fine. But since they were first introduced in March 2020, the rules have changed more than 70 times. Thus the starting point for the Met special inquiry team who are now investigating is establishing what laws were actually in place. Then they will be looking for any physical evidence Gray may have acquired, such as CCTV showing who was where at certain times, data from security cards also showing the locations of individuals, and emails. Acquiring photos from mobile phones may also help speed up matters''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/25/met-partygate-inquiry-latest-run-in-police-politics

And all because johnson, everyone's favourite coward wants to squirm out of resigning.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #82 on January 26, 2022, 07:16:04 am by SydneyRover »
''A Nation that's lost all sense of Proportion'' screams out the Mail in solid black capitals, suggesting that with the Russia crisis there are more important things than birthday cake to worry about, which is true, but who put the nation in this position and who on earth thinks that johnson is up to handling anything more than blowing out candles. If journalists had done their jobs in the first place they would have all asked any candidate up for the PMs job and the public if they thought they would be up to dealing with an international emergency, let alone one at home.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #83 on January 26, 2022, 11:14:17 am by Glyn_Wigley »
It's not about a piece of cake, it's about a PM that's lying to Parliament.

MachoMadness

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #84 on January 26, 2022, 12:15:08 pm by MachoMadness »
I love this idea of a bunch of people wandering about, constantly surrounded by parties without realising it. It's like a Viz bit. Oh, I've ended up at a Snap gig surrounded by glowsticks, maybe it's a work event.

turnbull for england

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #85 on January 26, 2022, 12:38:47 pm by turnbull for england »
Mails just hoping that headline glosses over the fact that people missed saying goodbye to loved ones as they died alone, as well as the myriad of other sacrifices made whilst those setting the agenda paid  no attention. Hopefully that will be seen for what it is

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #86 on January 26, 2022, 01:16:05 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
The next line of defence that everyone has been peddling, and that Johnson positively screamed at PMQs today, is interesting.

"Yes we might be a bunch of lying entitled Kitsons, but we got all the big calls right on COVID."

This from the PM who cost us maybe 30,000 lives by locking down late in March 2020, and perhaps more than that by delaying lockdown at Xmas 2020.

He's going to try to get this line down as a fact isn't he? "We got all the big calls right." f**k me sideways.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 02:05:45 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

Donnywolf

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #87 on January 26, 2022, 01:27:11 pm by Donnywolf »

... repeatedly and proven time and again
It's not about a piece of cake, it's about a PM that's lying to Parliament.


Latest .... The dogs and Pen Farthing. Johnson said no no saying he had deffo not authorized the priority removal of the dogs etc


Today the Email dropped into view showing that Johnson did EXACTLY what he said he didnt
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 01:35:53 pm by Donnywolf »

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #88 on January 26, 2022, 01:45:13 pm by River Don »
PM-not-answering-Qs

Donnywolf

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #89 on January 26, 2022, 02:21:42 pm by Donnywolf »
It should be abolished along with other arcane and archaic procedures

They should leave the building itself for a smaller 21st Century one and modernise everything

 

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