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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 75847 times)

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River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #720 on April 13, 2022, 07:49:51 pm by River Don »
Well the Justice Minister has resigned.
That says a lot about what he thinks of Bojo.

Ooofff, he's the second justice minister to walk. That's a blow.

I wonder if things might start unraveling now.

How many false dawns like this has there been?  It all just washes of Johnson because he doesn't have a principled bone in his body.

It's probably more about how the Conservative party reacts.

I mean so far he's had the full backing of people like Shapps, Fabricant, Currie. It's not exactly heavy weight support.



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Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #721 on April 13, 2022, 07:50:10 pm by Bentley Bullet »
You're wasting your time RD. He's beyond talking to. He's obsessed with the idea that, because Starmer once slipped up in an angry exchange in the House, said something wrong and corrected it shortly after, he's a liar just like Johnson is.

Actually,vi suspect he doesn't really believe that, but he needs to claim he does just so he can make his point in here. Either way, he's beyond reasoning with. One day I'll stop biting.

https://novaramedia.com/2021/09/29/keir-starmer-is-just-as-dishonest-as-boris-johnson/

You haven't actually read that have you? And I assume you've no idea how much of a vendetta Aaron Bastani has for Starmer, Bastani being Corbyn's young Twitter attack dog.

You are truly making yourself look stupid here BB by suggesting, as Bastani wants you to believe, that there's some kind of equality between lying on matters of objective truth, and changing policies in a way that certain groups of people don't like.

If you genuinely don't get how dangerous Johnson's abuse if objective truth is, and how unique it is in our politics, you really should be ashamed of yourself.

You talk about honesty when you want a Labour government to get into power by the only means it can with right-wing policies and then move to the left when it achieves it?

Honesty my arse.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #722 on April 13, 2022, 07:59:09 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Amen Pies.

Here's the bit that really hurts though.

It's not about scoring points by bringing him down. It's not about scoring party political points. His entire modus operandi goes way beyond that.

This is about whether you can prosper in politics by outright, demonstrably lying.

If you can (and no UK PM ever has done before) then it's a paradigm shift. It means there's no longer any stick to stop any future politician simply denying truths that they don't want to face. And that is genuinely the end of functioning democracy.

In a democracy, thinks work because leaders can be held to account for what they do. If leaders realise that they can just deny they have done things while the entire country knows they have, and they are not properly held to account, the whole system collapses.

I'll tell you honestly as a member of the Labour party. I would rather the Tories had an honest and principled leader, swore never again to give power to a pathological liar and won the next election, than Labour win the next election by sinking to Johnson's level. Because it is WAY more important than temporary political advantage. 

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #723 on April 13, 2022, 09:19:37 pm by wilts rover »
The events that the Metropolitan police have yet to examine, which Johnson attended, include the May 2020 summer party, a November gathering in Johnson’s flat with his wife on the day of Dominic Cummings’ departure, and a leaving do for a senior aide in No 10 a day later. Sources said no attender had yet received a fine for those events.

Lord Frost, the former cabinet minister, also expressed concern that further damaging revelations were to come. “I think it’s not possible just to say, ‘That was then, this is now, let’s move on, the world is different,’ as the government is trying to this morning,” he told LBC. “We don’t yet know what other penalties may be issued, and to whom.”

No 10 sources said the prime minister had attended the birthday gathering in the cabinet room in June 2020 for less than 10 minutes, eating salad from a plastic bowl and declining any alcohol or party food.

But those who attended the birthday party for the prime minister say they have raised eyebrows at the description of the gathering, with one describing it as a “party atmosphere” with singing, attended by his wife, Carrie Johnson, and his interior designer Lulu Lytle.

Another said they believe photos taken of the event by Johnson’s personal photographer – which have been disclosed to the official Sue Gray investigation into lockdown parties – would leave it beyond doubt that it was an event that breached the rules.

One policing source said an assessment by Met detectives that the PM breached the rules more than once would increase future fines. The level of fine would go up each time Johnson was found to have, or accepted that he had, breached the rules he had introduced.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/13/boris-johnson-could-get-three-more-fines-over-partygate-say-insiders

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #724 on April 13, 2022, 11:06:00 pm by BobG »

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #725 on April 13, 2022, 11:13:12 pm by BobG »
I am considering the ' ignore' button Billy.... A sad thing to be doing but when reason, rationality and objectivity are so consistently  ignored  there doesn't seem much point in forever wasting even more time.

BobG
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 11:17:37 pm by BobG »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #726 on April 14, 2022, 12:00:17 am by BillyStubbsTears »
To confirm  another point  discussed:

https://twitter.com/Greg_Callus/status/1513912694226788358?s=20&t=UI9EzE6MFvoCMfeF2-S0gw

BobG

If war was truly the issue, would you trust someone who doesn't even know when he is at a party to be able to make critical strategic decisions under pressure?

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #727 on April 14, 2022, 12:29:36 am by SydneyRover »
'who do you think you are' at some point in the future .............

 ................ and these are your great grandparents both lying f**kers ............. your great grandfather was particularly egregious ..............

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #728 on April 14, 2022, 12:33:47 am by BillyStubbsTears »
https://mobile.twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1514333084015120398

Wonder how long he was at this one? Or whether he knew he was at a social event?

For the record, during the various lockdowns, 2 of my colleagues left our company and three ex-colleagues who I remained close friends with left their then places of work. There wasn't a social event for any one of them, because we and they stuck to the f**king rules for the greater good.

I had three new colleagues join us from abroad three days before the first lockdown. None of them set foot in our place of work or attended any social gatherings for over 4 months. Because we stuck to the f**king rules for the greater good.

Repeat that experience by the hundreds of thousands around the country, and that starts to scratch the surface of why the vast majority are incandescent about the behaviour of this set of entitled t**ts.

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #729 on April 14, 2022, 02:25:27 am by BobG »
Incandescent is an understatement Billy.  Selfish, oafish, lying, corrupt and power crazed. I think incandescent can fairly be said to understate the case.

BobG

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #730 on April 14, 2022, 04:08:29 am by BobG »
Two bits of good news tonight:

The Moskva has been severely damaged. Differing accounts of why but the thing is reported to be badly damaged and abandoned,

and

Justice Minister Lord Wolfson has resigned from the Government over both the behaviour of the PM and the governments' official responses to Partygate over the last several months. That's code for resigning because the government has consistently lied to every single one of us - including BB.

At last, a member of the government one can respect.


BobG

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #731 on April 14, 2022, 07:40:53 am by Bentley Bullet »
You talk about honesty when you want a Labour government to get into power by the only means it can with right-wing policies and then move to the left when it achieves it?

Is that what you call honest?

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #732 on April 14, 2022, 08:32:40 am by SydneyRover »
Can I pass you a bib bb?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #733 on April 14, 2022, 08:44:24 am by BillyStubbsTears »
You talk about honesty when you want a Labour government to get into power by the only means it can with right-wing policies and then move to the left when it achieves it?

Is that what you call honest?
Thread alert.
This post has been flagged as politically biassed and lacking any supporting evidence. Read appropriately.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #734 on April 14, 2022, 08:51:01 am by Bentley Bullet »
You are a fake BST.

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #735 on April 14, 2022, 09:16:05 am by River Don »
If a political party publishes a manifesto and sticks to it, then the public knows roughly what it is getting when they vote.

The public generally knows the Labour Party pushes things to the left and the Conservative party pushes right.

It gets difficult when they start breaking manifesto pledges.

drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #736 on April 14, 2022, 09:38:39 am by drfchound »
If a political party publishes a manifesto and sticks to it, then the public knows roughly what it is getting when they vote.

The public generally knows the Labour Party pushes things to the left and the Conservative party pushes right.

It gets difficult when they start breaking manifesto pledges.

Governments regularly back peddle on manifesto pledges don’t they.
Sometimes it is because circumstances change after the election which make the promises impossible to keep.

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #737 on April 14, 2022, 09:45:34 am by tyke1962 »
To how many of the English electorate does any of this matter ?

It matters to me and the other contributors to this thread by obvious definition but I wonder how much it REALLY matters out there in the town's and city's .

You can't make people angry if they aren't interested in politics , disenfranchised or just as long as house prices are rising then carry on regardless .

The last great anger moment in my opinion was the 1990 Poll Tax riots in central London .

I'd bet a month's salary that if that was rolled out today you wouldn't see anything like that kind of opposition and anger and you'd be paying it .

That kind of anger and solidarity saw off a women who seemed almost impossible to remove for many of us and got rid of her blasted poll tax .

Put that day in all of its context in 1990 to a demo in central London on this coming Saturday with the intention for Johnson and Sunak to resign I can almost guarantee that they would resign early next week .

The reason they don't and won't is that not enough people get angry anymore and so they don't have to .

It's all well and good pointing at these charlatans but who in reality have allowed this to happen ?




Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #738 on April 14, 2022, 09:47:37 am by Bentley Bullet »
If a political party publishes a manifesto with no intention of sticking to it then it is lying. Half the Labour party don't agree with Labour policy at any given time, and never will. Trying to appease both sides of the Labour party will inevitably involve lies.

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #739 on April 14, 2022, 09:52:43 am by River Don »
That is a genuinely good point BB. The Labour Party has struggled to gain unanimity for years and years. It's probably a big reason why they are unable to win elections.


big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #740 on April 14, 2022, 12:26:50 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
If labour win the next election there's an awful lot of labour supporters who will likely have to criticise them when they make the same changes or mistakes the conservatives have.  Neither side can ever possibly get it right every time.

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #741 on April 14, 2022, 12:40:00 pm by BobG »
As always occurs Gloucester.

BobG

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #742 on April 14, 2022, 06:23:14 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
If labour win the next election there's an awful lot of labour supporters who will likely have to criticise them when they make the same changes or mistakes the conservatives have.  Neither side can ever possibly get it right every time.

I think you mean an awful lot of very vocal recent and never-before members might criticise them.

drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #743 on April 14, 2022, 06:31:35 pm by drfchound »
If labour win the next election there's an awful lot of labour supporters who will likely have to criticise them when they make the same changes or mistakes the conservatives have.  Neither side can ever possibly get it right every time.

I think you mean an awful lot of very vocal recent and never-before members might criticise them.

You are very defensive there bst.
The people you mention might be recent new members, but they are never the less still members and have as much of a say (and vote) as you do.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #744 on April 14, 2022, 07:07:27 pm by SydneyRover »
and back on topic .............

''Boris Johnson made a special request for Evgeny Lebedev and a Kremlin-linked Russian dignitary to bypass security checks when he met them as London mayor in 2015, the Guardian has learned.

Johnson’s friendship with Lebedev has come under scrutiny in recent weeks, including the prime minister’s decision to award the Russian-born media owner a peerage in spite of concerns raised by the intelligence and security services''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/14/boris-johnson-asked-for-evgeny-lebedev-to-skip-city-hall-security-in-2015

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #745 on April 14, 2022, 08:15:51 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
The Russian born British citizen?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #746 on April 14, 2022, 08:28:58 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Russian born holder of joint Russian-British citizenship.

He qualifies for UK citizenship because he moved to the UK when his father's job as a KGB spy chief took him to the Russian Embassy in London. But he never renounced his Russian citizenship.

Branton Red

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #747 on April 14, 2022, 09:19:59 pm by Branton Red »
The results of the upcoming local elections are the key to whether Johnson survives this or not.

He recognises this hence his Rwanda policy being announced now to appeal to Tory voters.

I therefore disagree with the notion that Johnson's conduct is a sign our democracy is broken. It's in the electorate's hands whether his actions are punished or not. Democracy in action.

However it could very reasonably argued that if the results of the local elections do not force the hands of Tory MPs to remove Johnson from power for his despicable behaviour then our society is broken.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #748 on April 14, 2022, 09:43:51 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Branton

You seem to be saying that no political party will make a moral call on an issue like this. They will only ever judge what is in their interests.

I disagree. There are plenty of examples of political parties making principled moral calls that weren't obviously in their electoral interests. The biggest one in the past 60 years was from the Tory Party, when Edward Heath sacked Enoch Powell after his disgusting Rivers of Blood speech. (Michael Heseltine reckoned that if Powell had been leader of the Tories after that speech, he'd have won a landslide at the next election.)

The fact that THIS generation of Tory MPs have no moral compass and judge everything in the light of self-interest does not mean that that is the standard of all parties at all times.

I absolutely do agree with you though that the strength of a democracy depends on people's willingness to set aside tribal affiliation and be prepared to punish parties at the ballot box if they aren't willing to keep their own house in order.

Branton Red

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #749 on April 14, 2022, 09:59:28 pm by Branton Red »
Billy

No I wasn't saying that at all. I'm disgusted that Tory MPs (bar a minority) haven't moved to remove Johnson already.

However they will surely move if the results of the local elections show him not to be the electoral superstar they believe he his (based on historic records) anymore. Of course this doesn't cast them in a very good light.

Those that DO want him out will be waiting on the election results giving their cause the extra momentum to succeed before making a move. I'd expect this minority to hand letters in post election regardless.

The Ukraine excuse is just being used as a cover by all Tory MPs whether Johnson supporters, detractors or waiverers.

I'll rephrase, as you imply, Johnson's future is in the hands of Tory voters in the local elections. I hope and expect many will simply abstain in disgust at his behaviour. This would then inevitably seal his downfall.

 

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