Gas Prices

[SydneyRover]

Syd,

It's difficult to getaway from Russia being a major culprit in this. First limiting gas supplies to pressure Germany and the EU. Then invading Ukraine, causing chaos in the energy markets and havoc in the food chain. Particularly with the supply grain and vegetable oil from Ukraine.

This is true RD, but if the govt had taken steps much earlier to wean the UK off fossil fuels which they will need to do regarding the climate change response this mess would not be so severe for so many people. Insulating old homes a larger pool of funds for changing over to heat pumps, more offshore windfarms etc etc, after 12 years everything is at their door, there are no excuses. How long do you think the tories will need to get a grip on how to govern?

Protesters are miles ahead of government thinking.

[River Don]

The prices increases were announced a fair bit before Russia invaded Ukraine, weren't they?

Yes because Russia had started limiting gas supplies before they kicked the war off.

If you remember, the first big alarm going off in the UK was when two large fertilizer plants shut down unexpectedly.

That was because the price of gas had spiked so high it made it unaffordable.

[SydneyRover]

So what did the tories do from 2010 to sept last year?

[River Don]

Syd,

It's difficult to getaway from Russia being a major culprit in this. First limiting gas supplies to pressure Germany and the EU. Then invading Ukraine, causing chaos in the energy markets and havoc in the food chain. Particularly with the supply grain and vegetable oil from Ukraine.

This is true RD, but if the govt had taken steps much earlier to wean the UK off fossil fuels which they will need to do regarding the climate change response this mess would not be so severe for so many people. Insulating old homes a larger pool of funds for changing over to heat pumps, more offshore windfarms etc etc, after 12 years everything is at their door, there are no excuses. How long do you think the tories will need to get a grip on how to govern?

Protesters are miles ahead of government thinking.

I won't disagree there.

The government caved to housebuilders, in regards to higher standards of insulation years ago.

They tried to roll out an insulation program more recently that failed abysmally

The issue of energy should have been much higher on the agenda in the UK for decades. The dash for gas was the cheap option and we see the consequences now.

And so on and so on.

[SydneyRover]

Not wrong there RD, except I would put it a bit more crudely.

''The Robert Jenrick planning row explained
Housing secretary’s approval of £1bn development has come under increasing scrutiny''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/24/robert-jenrick-planning-row-the-key-questions-answered

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is Gove discussing the Govt response to the cost of living crisis this morning.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status/1524284376078594048

Bit early to be on the Charlie, even for him.

Government by f**king buffoonery.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

So what did the tories do from 2010 to sept last year?

Have a read of the below article, which won't link but you'll find it on Google. The answer is a significant change in the picture accross all areas.

UK Energy in Brief 2021 - GOV.UK

[SydneyRover]

So what did the tories do from 2010 to sept last year?

Have a read of the below article, which won't link but you'll find it on Google. The answer is a significant change in the picture accross all areas.

UK Energy in Brief 2021 - GOV.UK

And the result for domestic consumers is ........ they cannot afford to heat their homes pud

[Glyn_Wigley]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

[River Don]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

The UK fertiliser plants were shut down Sept 2021, that was because Putin had already begun restricting gas supplies into Europe.

So yes, it probably was Putin to blame.

[drfchound]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

See above post by RD. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is Gove discussing the Govt response to the cost of living crisis this morning.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status/1524284376078594048

Bit early to be on the Charlie, even for him.

Government by f**king buffoonery.

Watch out for Gove in the House later on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoetryRebellion/status/1177205819689115649

Hiding in plain sight. Absolutely off his tits.

[SydneyRover]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

The UK fertiliser plants were shut down Sept 2021, that was because Putin had already begun restricting gas supplies into Europe.

So yes, it probably was Putin to blame.

If it was just gas prices and everything else was running as clockwork, as it should be following 12 years of the money managers at the helm you could say ............... well ok, they got that bit wrong but overall ............

But the problem is there is a whole host of shit happening with the economy and if you look back on the major decisions made it would be hard not to think the economy was in a hole by design, no?

[River Don]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

The UK fertiliser plants were shut down Sept 2021, that was because Putin had already begun restricting gas supplies into Europe.

So yes, it probably was Putin to blame.

If it was just gas prices and everything else was running as clockwork, as it should be following 12 years of the money managers at the helm you could say ............... well ok, they got that bit wrong but overall ............

But the problem is there is a whole host of shit happening with the economy and if you look back on the major decisions made it would be hard not to think the economy was in a hole by design, no?

I accept the pandemic has had an effect, I accept there are supply chain issues. There are other factors but nothing designed.

But the scale of the gas price rises are unprecedented. That has had a knock on effect of the price of oil and coal too. The war in Ukraine is effecting food supply (as are very high fertiliser prices - fossil fuels again)

And given the vast majority of the economy still runs on fossil fuels, that restriction of supply is largely what's behind this inflation.  You can see it all around the globe.

[drfchound]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

The UK fertiliser plants were shut down Sept 2021, that was because Putin had already begun restricting gas supplies into Europe.

So yes, it probably was Putin to blame.

If it was just gas prices and everything else was running as clockwork, as it should be following 12 years of the money managers at the helm you could say ............... well ok, they got that bit wrong but overall ............

But the problem is there is a whole host of shit happening with the economy and if you look back on the major decisions made it would be hard not to think the economy was in a hole by design, no?

Well don’t you think that covid might have had a bit of an effect on things.
Of course you wouldn’t consider that.
Then WE (not you) left the EU after the Brexit vote and that is having an effect.
Just a couple of insignificant scenarios really.

[danumdon]

So what did the tories do from 2010 to sept last year?

After the grandstanding from the ginger tw*t representing Sheffield tying the governments hands at every opportunity, not much between 2010 to 2015.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So what did the tories do from 2010 to sept last year?

After the grandstanding from the ginger tw*t representing Sheffield tying the governments hands at every opportunity, not much between 2010 to 2015.

You talking about Clegg? The one who single-handedly gave the green light to THE most destructive and stupid Tory economic policy since the 1920s?

Oh aye, he blocked them alright.

[danumdon]

Would that be the economic policy that the public decided at the next election to re-elect but this time without the LD anchor rapped around it Bol***ks.

The Lab strategy was left on the shelf,as usual.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Would that be the economic policy that the public decided at the next election to re-elect but this time without the LD anchor rapped around it Bol***ks.

The Lab strategy was left on the shelf,as usual.

The fact that people voted for it [1] doesn't make it any less of a catastrophe. It's a fact that the 2010s were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries. You'll not find a credible economists in the country that thinks Austerity wasn't principally resposinbke for that.

[1] Actually 60% of votes were cast for parties that were against Austerity in 2015, including even the LDs by then who realised how badly they'd f**ked up. But there you go. That's our electoral system.

[drfchound]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

[danumdon]

Would that be the economic policy that the public decided at the next election to re-elect but this time without the LD anchor rapped around it Bol***ks.

The Lab strategy was left on the shelf,as usual.

The fact that people voted for it [1] doesn't make it any less of a catastrophe. It's a fact that the 2010s were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries. You'll not find a credible economists in the country that thinks Austerity wasn't principally resposinbke for that.

[1] Actually 60% of votes were cast for parties that were against Austerity in 2015, including even the LDs by then who realised how badly they'd f**ked up. But there you go. That's our electoral system.

The fact that the 2010's "were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries" might just of had a very small matter of a worldwide economic recession the likes of which had not been seen for over 80years to deal with. That and the lousy legacy left of an outward bound Labour spending everyone's money again, and not being prudent in the good times to alleviate the bad.

Your second point is again moot because you know that in a first past the post system,1st is everything and all the also ran's added together makes no difference to the governance of the country.

[drfchound]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

……

[River Don]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

The last general election was highly unusual, in that it wasn't primarily about the economy.

Brexit and sovereignty had been raised to such a level that it put all else into the shade

If Brexit hadn't become the monster it did, it would have been fascinating to see what the election would have focussed on .

[drfchound]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

The last general election was highly unusual, in that it wasn't primarily about the economy.

Brexit and sovereignty had been raised to such a level that it put all else into the shade

If Brexit hadn't become the monster it did, it would have been fascinating to see what the election would have focussed on .

Quite possibly RD, but it still doesn’t change my point about not complaining when Labour did win.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

The last general election was highly unusual, in that it wasn't primarily about the economy.

Brexit and sovereignty had been raised to such a level that it put all else into the shade

If Brexit hadn't become the monster it did, it would have been fascinating to see what the election would have focussed on .

And...no-one was talking about the 2019 election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Would that be the economic policy that the public decided at the next election to re-elect but this time without the LD anchor rapped around it Bol***ks.

The Lab strategy was left on the shelf,as usual.

The fact that people voted for it [1] doesn't make it any less of a catastrophe. It's a fact that the 2010s were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries. You'll not find a credible economists in the country that thinks Austerity wasn't principally resposinbke for that.

[1] Actually 60% of votes were cast for parties that were against Austerity in 2015, including even the LDs by then who realised how badly they'd f**ked up. But there you go. That's our electoral system.

The fact that the 2010's "were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries" might just of had a very small matter of a worldwide economic recession the likes of which had not been seen for over 80years to deal with. That and the lousy legacy left of an outward bound Labour spending everyone's money again, and not being prudent in the good times to alleviate the bad.

Your second point is again moot because you know that in a first past the post system,1st is everything and all the also ran's added together makes no difference to the governance of the country.

DD

If you want to discuss macroeconomics I'm game.

Start with this graph, which, by the way, includes the Great Depression, so that covers your "worst for 80 years" argument.



See if you can have a wild guess when, on that graph, the 2010 election happened and the Tories (with Clegg's help) imposed Austerity.

Go on. I dare you.

As for elections, yes of course the Tories won in 2015. My point was that the country overwhelmingly voted for anti-Austerity parties. Do you disagree?

[drfchound]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

The last general election was highly unusual, in that it wasn't primarily about the economy.

Brexit and sovereignty had been raised to such a level that it put all else into the shade

If Brexit hadn't become the monster it did, it would have been fascinating to see what the election would have focussed on .

And...no-one was talking about the 2019 election.

YOU though were talking about how crap our electoral system is.

[drfchound]

It doesn’t matter how you wrap it up bst, the Labour Party got slaughtered at the last GE.
I bet you didn’t complain about our electoral system in 1997 or in 2005 when Blair only won 35% of the vote.

The last general election was highly unusual, in that it wasn't primarily about the economy.

Brexit and sovereignty had been raised to such a level that it put all else into the shade

If Brexit hadn't become the monster it did, it would have been fascinating to see what the election would have focussed on .

And...no-one was talking about the 2019 election.

YOU though were talking about how crap our electoral system is.

……

[Glyn_Wigley]

Agreed RD.  Things will have to happen quickly to avoid that.
Maybe everyone should lobby Putin to see if he will call the war off

Was Putin to blame for the rise in prices in 2021 too? When £90pm was taken off me and my energy bill first went up by £40pm?

See above post by RD. 

So the government have been on notice since at least then...and yet nothing. And they're still making excuses to sit on their hands until Autumn because they'll 'have a better idea what the problem is' by then. I thought we elected governments who were supposed to be competent enough to be on top of things and not go missing when they're needed.

[danumdon]

Would that be the economic policy that the public decided at the next election to re-elect but this time without the LD anchor rapped around it Bol***ks.

The Lab strategy was left on the shelf,as usual.

The fact that people voted for it [1] doesn't make it any less of a catastrophe. It's a fact that the 2010s were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries. You'll not find a credible economists in the country that thinks Austerity wasn't principally resposinbke for that.

[1] Actually 60% of votes were cast for parties that were against Austerity in 2015, including even the LDs by then who realised how badly they'd f**ked up. But there you go. That's our electoral system.

The fact that the 2010's "were the worst decade for UK economic growth for 2 centuries" might just of had a very small matter of a worldwide economic recession the likes of which had not been seen for over 80years to deal with. That and the lousy legacy left of an outward bound Labour spending everyone's money again, and not being prudent in the good times to alleviate the bad.

Your second point is again moot because you know that in a first past the post system,1st is everything and all the also ran's added together makes no difference to the governance of the country.

DD

If you want to discuss macroeconomics I'm game.

Start with this graph, which, by the way, includes the Great Depression, so that covers your "worst for 80 years" argument.



See if you can have a wild guess when, on that graph, the 2010 election happened and the Tories (with Clegg's help) imposed Austerity.

Go on. I dare you.

As for elections, yes of course the Tories won in 2015. My point was that the country overwhelmingly voted for anti-Austerity parties. Do you disagree?

Pretty clear to see on that graph that after the 2010 election, the Coalition government started to make sow inroads into the recession after being elected during  the 24month point, but never managed to bring it back down over the line because of the conditions that they inherited at the time, ie Labours spendthrift policies (if you put up a graph of comparable leading nations the graph would not look massively different, we was just a bit slower in reducing the fall) also they were never allowed to implement their desired policies due to the coalition partners in effect trying to prevent them, this caused the government  policy to be a compromised version of what was required.

So the graph demonstrated that this particular recession dragged on for longer than the others, if it had continued you could see where the recession eventually topped out.

To me this is a good example of why Coalition government as well as PR systems would always cause a country like this big issues when it comes to governance.

I believe that policy should be planned for the longer term to iron out cyclical variations, but 5 year parliamentary terms don't encourage this to be the case.

When you say the country overwhelmingly voted for anti-Austerity parties, you really mean the parties who lost the election all wanted to throw more money at the situation which in some respects would of caused us even more issues now, with the benefit of hindsight. So yes if you ask many people that a good way to try to react to this situation is to throw money at it then yes they will vote for that cause.