Gas Prices

[Filo]

Scrap VAT on energy, Scrap the Green Levy and abolish standing charges

[River Don]

Scrap VAT on energy, Scrap the Green Levy and abolish standing charges

Sensible in the short term. There is a war to be won.

[River Don]

Mate, it's about commodities. Just like it was in the 70s.

Putin is throttling the supply of gas. Mostly that is it.

We should not rely on the likes of Putin and OPEC for our energy.

Putin maybe throttling supply causing prices to rise, but don’t forget that April’s rise in the price cap was decided last October, a few months before he invaded Ukraine, this has been coming and predicted by the experts long before the invasion, and the Government did just as they are doing now, sat on their hands!

Keep in mind, Putin started turning off the gas taps last autumn well before the invasion. You may remember the government bailing out fertiliser plants because of the soaring price of gas.

[SydneyRover]

A small amount can be saved for those that pay by credit card, direct debit will save maybe a quid a week.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Scrap VAT on energy, Scrap the Green Levy and abolish standing charges

Barely scratched the surface Filo. It needs 10 times that.

[River Don]

Scrap VAT on energy, Scrap the Green Levy and abolish standing charges

Barely scratched the surface Filo. It needs 10 times that.

Every bit helps.

[River Don]

Was the price cap decided last October?

It seems much further ahead than we are lead to believe. Do you have a link?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mate, it's about commodities. Just like it was in the 70s.

Putin is throttling the supply of gas. Mostly that is it.

We should not rely on the likes of Putin and OPEC for our energy.

Putin maybe throttling supply causing prices to rise, but don’t forget that April’s rise in the price cap was decided last October, a few months before he invaded Ukraine, this has been coming and predicted by the experts long before the invasion, and the Government did just as they are doing now, sat on their hands!

Keep in mind, Putin started turning off the gas taps last autumn well before the invasion. You may remember the government bailing out fertiliser plants because of the soaring price of gas.

Genuine question. Is there any evidence that Putin was throttling supply last year? I don't recall that but I might have missed it.

[River Don]

Mate, it's about commodities. Just like it was in the 70s.

Putin is throttling the supply of gas. Mostly that is it.

We should not rely on the likes of Putin and OPEC for our energy.

Putin maybe throttling supply causing prices to rise, but don’t forget that April’s rise in the price cap was decided last October, a few months before he invaded Ukraine, this has been coming and predicted by the experts long before the invasion, and the Government did just as they are doing now, sat on their hands!

Keep in mind, Putin started turning off the gas taps last autumn well before the invasion. You may remember the government bailing out fertiliser plants because of the soaring price of gas.

Genuine question. Is there any evidence that Putin was throttling supply last year? I don't recall that but I might have missed it.

Without checking back, yes that was happening.

Do you remember the government having to bail out the two UK fertiliser and Co2 plants? This was because of rising gas prices and I remember it was blamed on Putin not renewing gas contracts. He was putting pressure on Germany regarding Nordstream 2. Remember?

[River Don]

IT is important to understand this.

The inflation of the 70s was in large part the restriction of hydrocarbons by the Arabs angry at the west support of Israel in the war.

Now it is Putin restricting gas supplies.

Economists spout so much shite. Energy is key.

I could go on. Inflation in the 80s was tamed as Thatcher benefited from the exploitation of North Sea oil.

[Panda]

Can't believe people are taken in by this war excuse for everything these days. The war is being used as a convenient excuse to try and cover up years of Tory / Labour failures in office.

[SydneyRover]

Can't believe people are taken in by this war excuse for everything these days. The war is being used as a convenient excuse to try and cover up years of Tory / Labour failures in office.

It would be good to list them so we are on the same page panda

[BillyStubbsTears]

The war is being used to cover up what was done by a Labour Govt that hadn't been in power for 12 years?

Run it by me how that works.

[tyke1962]

The war is being used to cover up what was done by a Labour Govt that hadn't been in power for 12 years?

Run it by me how that works.

You didn't reject Thatcherism Billy , nothing was returned to public ownership and you didn't repeal one anti trade union law .

Own it .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke
Want to make a list for me of all the society-changing laws that the Left of the Labour party has passed this last 50 years?

In your own time...

[tyke1962]

Between 1997 and 2010 you also managed to lose 5m votes including a whole country ( Scotland ) I might add .

Whether you or I like it or not the Tories when in power use that time to shape the country for better or worse normally for the worse but none the less .

The so called winning hand in winning elections for Labour consists of hanging their hat on Tory policies with the promise to be better at it , that's about the stretch of the difference between them in my opinion .

The current leader needs to wake up and smell the coffee and forget the dusting down of the Brit Pop album collection and " Things Can Only Get Better " .

He's in the eye of a perfect storm and but his liberalism blinds him .

He might also want to contemplate how he inherited a £13m surplus in the Labour Party bank account and managed to turn that in to £5m deficit .

 Donors will have to fill the holes , you can guess they will want something for that of course .

Your roadmap to power whilst previously successful has also hamstrung you today .

Just how much longer Keith sits on the fence and misses the moment with 70% of the  country baying for Tory blood is open to debate .

When letting the Tories fall their sword actually becomes we've nothing much of substance to solve the problems we currently face either  becomes reality in the electorates eyes is anyone's guess .

[Panda]

The war is being used to cover up what was done by a Labour Govt that hadn't been in power for 12 years?

Run it by me how that works.

The problems of this country haven't just been caused by the useless Tories. Useless Labour were in power before them and they still haven't addressed the key issues properly. Admittedly things have gotten ridiculous under 12 years of Tory rule but why the blinkers about the Labour party who were not far off being as useless and inadequate.

The NHS for example were still a pile of horse shit before the Tories took over. Just one example of something that has not been improved properly by either party.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Panda.
Can you back up that claim that the NHS was a pile of horse shit in 2010? Compared, say, to what it was like in 1997 when Labour came to power.

Give us some evidence.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Between 1997 and 2010 you also managed to lose 5m votes including a whole country ( Scotland ) I might add .

Whether you or I like it or not the Tories when in power use that time to shape the country for better or worse normally for the worse but none the less .

The so called winning hand in winning elections for Labour consists of hanging their hat on Tory policies with the promise to be better at it , that's about the stretch of the difference between them in my opinion .

The current leader needs to wake up and smell the coffee and forget the dusting down of the Brit Pop album collection and " Things Can Only Get Better " .

He's in the eye of a perfect storm and but his liberalism blinds him .

He might also want to contemplate how he inherited a £13m surplus in the Labour Party bank account and managed to turn that in to £5m deficit .

 Donors will have to fill the holes , you can guess they will want something for that of course .

Your roadmap to power whilst previously successful has also hamstrung you today .

Just how much longer Keith sits on the fence and misses the moment with 70% of the  country baying for Tory blood is open to debate .

When letting the Tories fall their sword actually becomes we've nothing much of substance to solve the problems we currently face either  becomes reality in the electorates eyes is anyone's guess .

You've lost me. Was there an example of a law that the Left has passed in there?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Remember that both the candidates to be PM in 10 days have said they will block solar farm developments, because they besmirch the Great British Landscape.

This is how shockingly solar farms have taken over.

https://mobile.twitter.com/_dmoser/status/1563177883803082752

I wonder why the candidates pitching themselves at the golf club bores don't get angry about...golf courses?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, for those of you who insist they are all the same.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NicDakin55/status/1563540962386661379

This, in one graph, sums up these Kitsons who have ruled for the past 12 years.

[wilts rover]

The war is being used to cover up what was done by a Labour Govt that hadn't been in power for 12 years?

Run it by me how that works.

The problems of this country haven't just been caused by the useless Tories. Useless Labour were in power before them and they still haven't addressed the key issues properly. Admittedly things have gotten ridiculous under 12 years of Tory rule but why the blinkers about the Labour party who were not far off being as useless and inadequate.

The NHS for example were still a pile of horse shit before the Tories took over. Just one example of something that has not been improved properly by either party.

When Labour left office in 2010, public satisfaction with the NHS was at it highest ever. The Blair/Brown government increased health spending each year more than any any government since Heath and cut waiting times from 18 months to 18 weeks:

https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/returning-nhs-waiting-times-to-18-weeks

https://fullfact.org/health/satisfaction-nhs-peaked-2010/

Balir and Brown did a lot of things wrong (some of them within the NHS) but one of their greatest achievements was turning it from an under-funded disaster left by Thatcher/Major into a well-respected functioning health service.

Credit for Cameron/May/Johnson for returning it back to an under-funded, under-staffed disaster.

And their energy costs are going to go up to btw. I haven't noticed any annoucements for new money to cover these - so its going to be even more undr-funded.

[tyke1962]

Between 1997 and 2010 you also managed to lose 5m votes including a whole country ( Scotland ) I might add .

Whether you or I like it or not the Tories when in power use that time to shape the country for better or worse normally for the worse but none the less .

The so called winning hand in winning elections for Labour consists of hanging their hat on Tory policies with the promise to be better at it , that's about the stretch of the difference between them in my opinion .

The current leader needs to wake up and smell the coffee and forget the dusting down of the Brit Pop album collection and " Things Can Only Get Better " .

He's in the eye of a perfect storm and but his liberalism blinds him .

He might also want to contemplate how he inherited a £13m surplus in the Labour Party bank account and managed to turn that in to £5m deficit .

 Donors will have to fill the holes , you can guess they will want something for that of course .

Your roadmap to power whilst previously successful has also hamstrung you today .

Just how much longer Keith sits on the fence and misses the moment with 70% of the  country baying for Tory blood is open to debate .

When letting the Tories fall their sword actually becomes we've nothing much of substance to solve the problems we currently face either  becomes reality in the electorates eyes is anyone's guess .

You've lost me. Was there an example of a law that the Left has passed in there?

There isn't one as well you know Billy but clearly your thinking goes along the lines of if you can't get in to power then you aren't worth a shyte .
However what the left do is contribute with ideas which creates policy dependent of course whether they are listened to .

One such policy would be The National Minimum Wage which was introduced by Blair in 1997 .

It actually took 88 years to come to fruition with its origins in the Trade Union movement .

[Sprotyrover]

We don't seem to be able to look beyond our noses at this problem!
The First thing the New PM needs to do is getover to Venezuela on a state visit with some BPand Shell Executives  in tow and do all they can to make the pease and invest the ill gotten gains into the Oil production capacity of that country!, the Germans have already got, Siemens over there offering to re vamp the Electrical power network so we won't be alone, might mean upsetting Nanny Biden and a few Oil Companies such as Resol and Connoco but hey ho business is business. And I can think of 300 Billion reasons why we should make it happen, we won't see anything short term but we won't be wringing our hands this time next year!.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke. I'm sure we're not actually that far apart. I thought Blair was way too far right and I argued so in Labour party meetings at the time when I was still a member.

But I would never, ever have said "Huh, we might as well have the Tories then." I've never, ever understood that attitude and I never will.

[tyke1962]

Tyke. I'm sure we're not actually that far apart. I thought Blair was way too far right and I argued so in Labour party meetings at the time when I was still a member.

But I would never, ever have said "Huh, we might as well have the Tories then." I've never, ever understood that attitude and I never will.

The problem is Billy whilst the New Labour thing may well have worked with the electorate in 1997 and the so called third way what you have to consider is the UK economy wasn't actually in too bad a place .

Fast forward to today and the third way isn't going to cut the ice .

It wouldn't have cut the ice in 1945 with an equally centre leader in Atlee but he had the political nose to be brave , radical with the strength of conviction to improve the lives of the country with a huge dose of socialism .

Socialism per se for ever and a day will fail but there are times in our history when it's needed not only to save its people but actually save capitalism from itself too .

We are at that juncture right now as we were in 1945 .

When a huge percentage of the people cannot afford the rent never mind own a home .

When a huge percentage of the people can't afford to shop at supermarkets to feed themselves and rely on foodbanks despite the majority in work .

When a huge number of people cannot afford to turn a light on or the central heating in their home .

When an industry makes millions of pounds in profits and hasn't invested in one single new reservoir since it was privatised in 1989 and then tells its customers there is a water shortage and they must cut back .

Your not a million miles from a failed state status .

There's no way that any third way will solve this catastrophe .

The Tories have lost the argument on the economy , it's failed it's people .

There is only one solution in such times the same as there was in 1945 .

[Panda]

I don't understand why many people on minimum wage don't just go on benefits? From a economics point of view surely they'd be better off in today's climate?

[IDM]

Sorry, but what’s what has happened with past governments got to do with what the current lot could/should do right now with the immediate crisis?

[tyke1962]

Sorry, but what’s what has happened with past governments got to do with what the current lot could/should do right now with the immediate crisis?

Because both the two major party's currently are addicted to the markets fixing this debacle .

The Tories will never leave it and neither would they have created the NHS or a welfare state in 1945 or provided millions of its citizens with a place to work or an affordable house to live in .

For all its faults the Labour Party has a solid record on fixing catastrophes with the last one in 2008 .

Socialism not the markets solved it and something that passes the current leader by .

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it .

[IDM]

People need help with fuel bills now.. right now, not after a GE which is very unlikely in the near future.  So political history is irrelevant.  It’s what they do now, next week (or realistically with this laissez-faire lot, in a few weeks time) that really matters.

Freeze the cap as it is now, repay the difference by reducing it slower than necessary in the future.