DUP

[Bristol Red Rover]

This may yet be the ultimate price that Britain pays for dumbest idea to date that has spewed from the tory machine, brexit.

Not entirely true, Sydney. The far left wanted Brexit too.

I agree that was, and still is the case to some extent. However, the problem always was how to do Brexit, and delay any voting until that was made clear. The Tories have performed a right old Laurel and Hardy epic on that score and for pure self interested reasons. Or maybe they're just a bit dim, as were the people going along with it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I am only responsible for my own actions, I can’t imagine the guilt you must bear if you think you have responsibility for all that came before you

With respect, I think you are confusing "guilt" and "acting like a grown up".

[drfchound]

“With respect”…. Yeah, right.

[Ldr]

I am only responsible for my own actions, I can’t imagine the guilt you must bear if you think you have responsibility for all that came before you

With respect, I think you are confusing "guilt" and "acting like a grown up".

So to use an analogy as you are so fond of, if I killed you in a car crash, my son should also bear responsibility and guilt? That is in effect what you are saying

[scawsby steve]

This may yet be the ultimate price that Britain pays for dumbest idea to date that has spewed from the tory machine, brexit.

Not entirely true, Sydney. The far left wanted Brexit too.

I agree that was, and still is the case to some extent. However, the problem always was how to do Brexit, and delay any voting until that was made clear. The Tories have performed a right old Laurel and Hardy epic on that score and for pure self interested reasons. Or maybe they're just a bit dim, as were the people going along with it.

With the greatest respect, BRR, that wasn't the point I was making. The far left were campaigning against EU membership donkeys' years ago.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I am only responsible for my own actions, I can’t imagine the guilt you must bear if you think you have responsibility for all that came before you

With respect, I think you are confusing "guilt" and "acting like a grown up".

So to use an analogy as you are so fond of, if I killed you in a car crash, my son should also bear responsibility and guilt? That is in effect what you are saying

No. But if you killed me in a car crash, then your son decided to have a shit in my son's garden...

[Ldr]

So future generations aren’t responsible for the acts of past generations Just their own actions. Thanks for clarifying

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ever thus when you argue with a libertarian. It rapidly becomes an argument on fundamentalism.

Future generations, in my opinion, have a moral responsibility to be aware of the context of how the present situation became what it is. And to factor that into their decision making. It's got f**k all to do with guilt or responsibility for the actions. It's about empathy, understanding and basic decency.

Back to your car death analogy. If you killed me in a car crash where you we culpable, I'd say your son would have a moral requirement to have a bit of understanding of my son if my son occasionally acted like a Kitson around him. Especially if your son did a shit in my son's garden.

Your opinion seems to be that your son can shit in my son's garden with impunity, and if my son gets angry about that, it's his problem.

[Ldr]

How can one person be so wrong as you are here with your last paragraph. If my son did shot in your sons garden he bears responsibility for his own actions. It’s very simple he doesn’t bear responsibility for mine. As for moral responsibility dont make me laugh, that’s as bad as feelings influencing law. If you feel the need to feel bad  about history that’s up to you, I’m not going to tell you that you are wrong, how you live your life is nothing to do with me. I feel no such responsibility to as I had no involvement in the past.

[Branton Red]

The current NI protocol, in of itself, doesn't jeopardise the GFA. The proposed changes to the NI protocol don't jeopardise the GFA.

All NI and mainland UK parties are in agreement that the NI protocol as it stands is not fit for purpose and needs to be renegotiated.

There must be a technical solution to improve the protocol given it is currently more onerous to export from Britain to NI than from Britain to the EU (or conversely EU to UK).*

* Given this incredible, illogical fact the Brexit negotiators have clearly messed up - ALL of them: May's government; Johnson's Government; the EU; Ireland; and the DUP given their position in the 17-19 Parliament.

[SydneyRover]

This may yet be the ultimate price that Britain pays for dumbest idea to date that has spewed from the tory machine, brexit.

Not entirely true, Sydney. The far left wanted Brexit too.

I know, someone tried to tell me it wasn't a tory idea before Steve

[Bristol Red Rover]

How can one person be so wrong as you are here with your last paragraph. If my son did shot in your sons garden he bears responsibility for his own actions. It’s very simple he doesn’t bear responsibility for mine. As for moral responsibility dont make me laugh, that’s as bad as feelings influencing law. If you feel the need to feel bad  about history that’s up to you, I’m not going to tell you that you are wrong, how you live your life is nothing to do with me. I feel no such responsibility to as I had no involvement in the past.

It's not about "feeling bad", it's about owning your heredity as well as being humanitarian, caring for others. That involves understanding the context of a situation with a view to helping make things better, as opposed to being selfish, egotistical, uncaring - much of which is the route of evil.

Moral responsibility isn't anything to do with feelings by the way. They may be related but they are distinct from one another. But, much of law is based on feelings as well as morals - also unfortunately the subjugation of the masses. And then the impimentation of the law tends to be less to do with feelings, maybe that's what you meant?