DUP

[BillyStubbsTears]

And this is what I mean DD.

You are certain that Barnier and the EU approached the negotiations in bad faith.

You use that video as evidence of that bad faith.

Turns out that video was a cast iron example of someone deliberately dicking you about to make you think that the EU weren't acting in good faith.

And your conclusion is not to question your opinion. It's to double down on it.

THAT is what I mean when I say this is scary.

[danumdon]

And this is what I mean DD.

You are certain that Barnier and the EU approached the negotiations in bad faith.

You use that video as evidence of that bad faith.

Turns out that video was a cast iron example of someone deliberately dicking you about to make you think that the EU weren't acting in good faith.

And your conclusion is not to question your opinion. It's to double down on it.

THAT is what I mean when I say this is scary.

It was apparent from the very beginning that the EU had no intention of facilitating a smooth withdrawal from their organisation.

These people made it very clear that they did not approve of the UK having a referendum. That the decision went against their wishes was something they made very clear, the fact they were in no position to bully the country into changing its mind also irked them massively. There was going to be no Greek capitulation here so they were determined to ensure we would be made to pay.

That be as it may but the future will decide how this works out for us and them.It was important enough for this country to decide it was time to make its own decisions and on how we implement them , whichever way they decide not some unimpeachable organisation.

Lets just hope you don't have to much suffering to endure in battling your lost cause.

[danumdon]

Anyway, i thought Keith said it was now Labour party policy to accept the decision of the referendum and get on with trying to make it work for the country, it seems he has a more pragmatic attitude then you BST, maybe he was underestimated?

Seems like the message didn't get to all the "warriors "in the field.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And where's your evidence that the EU had no intention of facilitating a smooth withdrawal? What specific part of the negotiations can you point to?

[danumdon]

And where's your evidence that the EU had no intention of facilitating a smooth withdrawal? What specific part of the negotiations can you point to?

I'm quite sure you read All the papers and absorbed all the media over the two years it took to complete, a bright fella like you doesn't need me to point this out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I saw a clear and expected line from them all along. I didn't see any problems deliberately thrown in that weren't obviously predictable.

We ended up with us choosing to leave the CU and SM. And we have a deal that is precisely what I'd have expected it to be. One that respects the sovereignty of both sides.

Indulge me. Tell me which bits you think they f**ked us over on?

[Dutch Uncle]

OK, time to get personal.

Life in Northern Ireland has become more difficult since the implementation of a Brexit which entailed leaving the SM and CU – not mentioned at all as an option in the referendum. The bureaucracy involved in implementing Boris Johnson’s ‘oven ready’ deal that was touted as so great has not only limited selection on supermarket shelves as suppliers simplify their paperwork by delivering fewer choices of product but more significantly smaller suppliers of other non-food items have had to take measures to keep their businesses viable. You wouldn’t believe how often I go on amazon and because of where my IP address is I get the message ‘delivery in mainland UK only’. 

I was caught out in a terrible situation. As many will know my wife died last November after a long fight against cancer which eventually affected her mobility. Years ago I contacted the main local firm about installing stairlifts, had everything measured up, had a system chosen, and the local company said a week’s notice would be enough for delivery and fitting.

In October, with her mobility beginning to wane, I contacted the company and the week timeframe was confirmed. However all the local firm’s orders are delivered from the mainland, and instead of delivering each order when it was necessary the mainland company had very recently been forced to take the measure of waiting for 3 or 4 orders before delivering them together to save on bureaucracy costs. It took 4 weeks. Thus for 3 extra weeks our life was dominated by my wife’s increasing problems going up the stairs. This resulted in a major incident 2 days before the stairs were delivered when I was stuck with her near the top and had to ring around several neighbours to help me to get her up the last two stairs. It was very embarrassing for her and she then stayed in bed until the stairlift was fitted. The stairlift changed her life and we were back to a near normal life …………. for just 2 more days. Then she suddenly did not feel like getting out of bed and she never came down the stairs again. I am left with the horrific memory of the incident, and the knowledge that but for the ‘Oven Ready Brexit deal’ we could have had 3 much better weeks to remember her last weeks by. And 2 grand spent for 2 days of a stairlift instead of for more than 3 weeks.   

All this because of a continuing series of lies serving the purpose of Boris and a few conservative MPs who steadfastly refused to listen to any experts about possible problems in Northern Ireland   

[SydneyRover]

This is an awful weight to carry Dutch I feel for you.

[SydneyRover]

And where's your evidence that the EU had no intention of facilitating a smooth withdrawal? What specific part of the negotiations can you point to?

I'm quite sure you read All the papers and absorbed all the media over the two years it took to complete, a bright fella like you doesn't need me to point this out.

What you don't appear to understand is the myth created and sold to the British public that we held all the cards and that we could tear up our membership and retain all or most of the benefits, which is why that infamous video that has exposed you pants down in the middle of town was produced, as part of the plan to make you and others believe that the EU are the baddies.

Both the EU and the UK had every right to fight their corner, the flaw on the UK side was from 2016 onwards we telegraphed our moves and the general public were never privy to what the end game really was. 

[Glyn_Wigley]

And where's your evidence that the EU had no intention of facilitating a smooth withdrawal? What specific part of the negotiations can you point to?

I'm quite sure you read All the papers and absorbed all the media over the two years it took to complete, a bright fella like you doesn't need me to point this out.

How about telling the rest of us?

[Dutch Uncle]

This is an awful weight to carry Dutch I feel for you.

Thanks Sydney. I forgot to mention that amazingly my wife remained cheerful and inspirational throughout. She deserved better.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Just as an aside, have any of those opposed to the Protocol said where they want the UK/EU Customs Border to be if not where it is at the moment, or would that be too much to expect of them?

[Draytonian III]

Certain people on here think that’s it’s set in stone that everyone who lives in the Republic of Ireland and the Catholics who live in Northern Ireland want an united Ireland. Well I suggest those people do a little more research into the matter

[Bristol Red Rover]

Certain people on here think that’s it’s set in stone that everyone who lives in the Republic of Ireland and the Catholics who live in Northern Ireland want an united Ireland. Well I suggest those people do a little more research into the matter

Have you got links to current polls on unification for both NI and the whole island of Ireland?

[BillyStubbsTears]

There was a poll in 2018 in NI during the Brexit negotiations that asked people whether they would support unification with Ireland in three different scenarios. The percentage who said they would was:

1)If the UK stays in the EU - 29%
2) If there's a Withdrawal Agreement(*) - 48%
3) If there's a No Deal Brexit(+) - 55%

(*) Similar to what we actually ended up with
(+) In other words, if there's a hard border between NI and Ireland, which is what this Government and the DUP might be stumbling towards.

Since the Nationalists are still a minority in NI, that says to me that the DUP are currently in danger of forcing UNIONISTS into voting to leave the UK and unite with Ireland.

[BobG]

The perils of governing by ideology.... Oh for the pragmatism of Ted Heath and Harold Wilson.

BobG

[Draytonian III]

Certain people on here think that’s it’s set in stone that everyone who lives in the Republic of Ireland and the Catholics who live in Northern Ireland want an united Ireland. Well I suggest those people do a little more research into the matter

Have you got links to current polls on unification for both NI and the whole island of Ireland?

I spend a lot of time in Northern Ireland and I know a lot of people over there, on both sides of the fence

[MachoMadness]

Can't read that post by Dutch and not respond. What a horrible story. I'm very sorry to hear that happened to you both. Its easy to forget that away from all this talk about sovereignty this and GDP that there are real people in the middle of all this.

It was brave to post that Dutch, and I hope you're holding up well.

[Dutch Uncle]

Can't read that post by Dutch and not respond. What a horrible story. I'm very sorry to hear that happened to you both. Its easy to forget that away from all this talk about sovereignty this and GDP that there are real people in the middle of all this.

It was brave to post that Dutch, and I hope you're holding up well.

Many thanks Macho, and others who have expressed support.

I have to say I have the enormous support of my wife's large family, many friends and good neighbours here in Bangor, and there is a great community spirit here. My wife had three years after being diagnosed as terminal, so I had time to prepare somewhat which helped. Although the pandemic meant we didn't manage to everything we wanted she was able to thoroughly enjoy the most important event - our younger daughter's twice COVID postponed wedding.

Nearly everything medical and support-wise was handled superbly over here. My post was born more of frustration of being lied to by politicians who were not prepared to engage with the blindingly obvious fact that there would be a problem in Northern Ireland and wished it away in the name of delivering any old Brexit. I just wanted to show there are real effects over here.

Once again many thanks     

[SydneyRover]

''Britain can’t be trusted on Northern Ireland protocol, says Leo Varadkar''

Surely not, this is preposterous and cannot be true! He goes on ............

''''The British government has created “distrust” among international partners by proposing to override parts of the Northern Ireland protocol, Leo Varadkar, the tanaiste, has said.

Varadkar made the comments yesterday while rejecting a proposal from Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, for unilateral Westminster legislation on the movement of goods, regulation and VAT rules.

Britain’s apparent willingness to breach a treaty under international law has raised concern and caused “puzzlement in European capitals, including here in Dublin”, the tanaiste said, and raised questions over whether Britain would honour any future deal that might be reached.

“We negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the British government, including a protocol. They’re now proposing to disapply part of that unilaterally, and that does create an atmosphere of distrust,” Varadkar said''

.. and there's more .............. and the killer ............

''“If we agree anything with them, how will we know that they will honour that agreement? And if we make any concessions, how will we know that we will get some concessions back in return? That’s usually how negotiation works. It requires a bit of give and take.”''

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-cant-be-trusted-on-northern-ireland-protocol-says-leo-varadkar-ptmnvmt76

In a nutshell Varadkar is saying that the British government, distrusted by the international community cannot be relied upon to keep their word when signing up to an international agreement of their own design.

I could follow this up by adding that there will be some ''loony, half-wit do-gooders who try to condone such behaviour'' but that would obviously be beyond the pale.

[Dutch Uncle]

'Beyond the Pale' - very good Sydney 

[SydneyRover]

I think my selection dropped in from my sub-conscience rather than deliberate choice so I cannot claim full bragging rights this time, but thanks anyway Dutch

[Donny Dub]

As long as NI is part of the UK there should be no hold ups in place in  dealing with the rest of the UK.
This is causing difficulties for exporters like the problem you have had there Dutch Uncle.
I hope I’m all this you have been able to make your wife more comfortable by the way

[Dutch Uncle]

As long as NI is part of the UK there should be no hold ups in place in  dealing with the rest of the UK.
This is causing difficulties for exporters like the problem you have had there Dutch Uncle.
I hope I’m all this you have been able to make your wife more comfortable by the way

Thanks Dub. This was all in last November. My wife's deterioration at the end was unexpectedly very rapid as the cancer reached her brain. She struggled increasingly for those 4 weeks (which should have been one) to get up the stairs, then had two good days with the stairlift, then was unable to get out of bed and passed away peacefully one week later. It was blessedly quick and pain free and at home where she wanted. Many are not so lucky.

My complaint was losing 3 of the last 4 weeks of her life purely through brexit imposed import delays, and the lies we have been told and the total refusal from 2016 onwards to listen and accept there would be any problems in Northern Ireland.   

[BillyStubbsTears]

As long as NI is part of the UK there should be no hold ups in place in  dealing with the rest of the UK.
This is causing difficulties for exporters like the problem you have had there Dutch Uncle.
I hope I’m all this you have been able to make your wife more comfortable by the way

So, if there's no boundary between GB and NI, where should the boundary be between UK and EU?

[Dutch Uncle]

As long as NI is part of the UK there should be no hold ups in place in  dealing with the rest of the UK.
This is causing difficulties for exporters like the problem you have had there Dutch Uncle.
I hope I’m all this you have been able to make your wife more comfortable by the way

So, if there's no boundary between GB and NI, where should the boundary be between UK and EU?

Three years old but somehow still relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os

[Donny Dub]

ROI are EU, NI are UK.
There can be an agreement, Switzerland have managed it well enough so can UK.
Sin Fein will soon enough be the strongest political party in both NI and the ROI, let them deal with it, they’ll know what to do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Christ this is hard work.

Switzerland manages it by being in the Single Market and having close alignment to the Customs Union.

We rejected both of those.

So I'll say once again. Since WE decided that there should be a trade border between UK and EU, where should that be? Any Brexit supporter feel free to contribute. There's a possible Nobel Prize on offer.

[Ldr]

Between Ní and roi and stop pandering

[BillyStubbsTears]

So you rip up the GFA then Ldr? Happy with that?