truss

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well the markets like it.

FTSE down 1.5%

Pound down 3% Vs the dollar.

I'm genuinely starting to think that Truss is a long term sleeper agent with a mission to make the Tories unelectable for 50 years.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For those who like a graph to summarise the mini-budget, here is one from EiE;
https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/status/1573279779125690368/photo/1

Go on then, explain why this is reasonable in the middle of a cost of living crisis?

And THAT is precisely the sort of graph that the OBR would have included in their report today. Which is precisely why Kwarteng banned them from publishing it.

[Redroy]

For those who like a graph to summarise the mini-budget, here is one from EiE;
https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/status/1573279779125690368/photo/1

Go on then, explain why this is reasonable in the middle of a cost of living crisis?

Something something wealth creators, something something they'll take their money elsewhere.

[Panda]

Well the markets like it.

FTSE down 1.5%

Pound down 3% Vs the dollar.

I'm genuinely starting to think that Truss is a long term sleeper agent with a mission to make the Tories unelectable for 50 years.

She's even starting to convince me that i maybe should vote Labour after all. If just to get these filthy, unclean, vile pirates out of office.

[Panda]

Nothing in the announcement today that benefits my old mum. Meanwhile in a hotel near me, economic migrants have their hotel rooms cleaned by a private contractor, they get free heating, clothing, food, electric, they have a basketball court installed in what was the car park, they ride on bikes, they get free bus travel etc.

They've all got new trainers and are on their phones constantly. Who pays for their mobile data?

This is how the Tories treat British people who have worked all their lives. Worse than people who don't even have a right to be here. Disgrace.

[River Don]

1. 09 against the dollar, an all time low. Safe to say the market isn't impressed.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Well the markets like it.

FTSE down 1.5%

Pound down 3% Vs the dollar.

I'm genuinely starting to think that Truss is a long term sleeper agent with a mission to make the Tories unelectable for 50 years.

I'm sure there's a reason they announced all of this the day after interest rates were set.  Not wanting to speculate where certain people may have had their money.

There's a serious question as to why government and bank are not working together. I know people grumble if the banks not independent, but they don't have the same objectives.

It's not the driver on the FTSE though and a portion of the fx movement is the ridiculously strong dollar.

[River Don]

For those who like a graph to summarise the mini-budget, here is one from EiE;
https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/status/1573279779125690368/photo/1

Go on then, explain why this is reasonable in the middle of a cost of living crisis?

And THAT is precisely the sort of graph that the OBR would have included in their report today. Which is precisely why Kwarteng banned them from publishing it.

So much for levelling up, a manifesto commitment remember.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is the Institute for Fiscal Studies' head.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/status/1573307710023647232

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well the markets like it.

FTSE down 1.5%

Pound down 3% Vs the dollar.

I'm genuinely starting to think that Truss is a long term sleeper agent with a mission to make the Tories unelectable for 50 years.

I'm sure there's a reason they announced all of this the day after interest rates were set.  Not wanting to speculate where certain people may have had their money.

There's a serious question as to why government and bank are not working together. I know people grumble if the banks not independent, but they don't have the same objectives.

It's not the driver on the FTSE though and a portion of the fx movement is the ridiculously strong dollar.

£/$ down 3% today

€/$ down 1% today.

£/€ down 2% today.

Clearly today's moves are NOT all down to the strong dollar.

[River Don]

The whole focus here is The City. The hope must be that the financial sector can find some growth in the global economy to tap into.

As for the wider UK economy, I think growth looks much less likely. Still high energy bills, uncertainty and a squeeze on disposable incomes.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Is this a political budget just trying to push for some dead cat popularity bounce prior to calling an autumn election before the economy goes completely tits up?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Well the markets like it.

FTSE down 1.5%

Pound down 3% Vs the dollar.

I'm genuinely starting to think that Truss is a long term sleeper agent with a mission to make the Tories unelectable for 50 years.

I'm sure there's a reason they announced all of this the day after interest rates were set.  Not wanting to speculate where certain people may have had their money.

There's a serious question as to why government and bank are not working together. I know people grumble if the banks not independent, but they don't have the same objectives.

It's not the driver on the FTSE though and a portion of the fx movement is the ridiculously strong dollar.

£/$ down 3% today

€/$ down 1% today.

£/€ down 2% today.

Clearly today's moves are NOT all down to the strong dollar.

Never said it was did I?  You know as well as I do that's part of it though.  Indeed the pound remains higher vs the euro than it was 2 years ago.

Of course it will be interesting to see how other parties react to this now.  Can other parties now pledge to increase taxes accross the board or only against the top earners?  Can't deny this will lead to a change in thinking politically.

Bar the 45% cut most would favour the tax cuts wouldn't they?

[River Don]

Just watching Sky News who are saying a UK budget has never had a worse reception on the international markets.

The markets are clearly saying, they don't believe this will generate growth. Its a huge gamble and they don't think it's a good one.

[Filo]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

That is my point

What actually is your point? Are you wanting more benefits?  What are you wanting the government to do?

I think you know what my point is, I want a fairer society, not a Society where the wealthy increase their wealth while the poorer see nothing but have to pay the same increases as the wealthy in a cost of living crisis

[tyke1962]

It doesn't make any political sense never mind economic .

The tax cuts that benefit those the most is an extremely low number and it's not like such people are ever going to vote for a party other than the Tories .

The votes that decide elections are in the middle class and working class plus the pensioners sections of society none of whom benefit from these tax cuts in any way significantly .

The Tories have a solid give or take 30% base who would vote for them even if Dizzy Lizzy had squatted down and pyssed on The Queens coffin on Monday afternoon .

Something isn't right here , even if trickle down economics did work which it doesn't , the clue is in the name , trickle down , which means it would take quite a while to be affective and certainly not before the next election .

Tell what they are doing , they know the game is up so they are handing the wealthy one last bonanza whilst at the same time fecking things up so badly for a potential Labour government .

Think about it , in 1997 they left the UK economy in fairly decent shape and didn't see power for 13 years and not fully in charge for 18 years .

They aren't making the same mistake again , they are setting fire to the oil wells and playing a longer game here .

They'll be back in power by 2030 , you can bet on it .

[ncRover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

[River Don]

What I'm not hearing in all this is the word "energy". We're in an energy crisis but they seem to constantly want to avoid it. Kwarteng has even told the governor of the Bank of England to stop blaming inflation on energy price rises!

It so is energy price rises though. It's pushing the core inflation and soaking into the economy and causing secondary inflation. And through that inflation we have price rises in all sectors leading to industrial unrest, strikes, the lot.

So he's put a cap on energy prices but they are still a lot higher than last year. And how do we pay for the cost of this energy cap? It goes on the national credit card. Never mind the energy companies who are making eye watering sums. That's a problem for you all in the future.

So they dance around and pretend it's not an energy crisis. It's the wealthy not earning enough to invest and drive growth or something. Right?

[River Don]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

More windfall taxes on the energy giants profiteering out of the Ukraine war.

[tyke1962]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Nobody knows because they haven't got any polices .

[Glyn_Wigley]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

[ncRover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

More windfall taxes on the energy giants profiteering out of the Ukraine war.

Imagine you were selling a product that your very business depended on. There is a shortage of that product, it’s wholesale cost has gone up and the future supply of that product is very uncertain. What would you do in the short term?

The government are trying to increase the supply with lifting the fracking ban.

[River Don]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Nobody knows because they haven't got any polices .

That's not right. Starmer has been clear that he would help fund the energy cap through a windfall tax.

Beyond that, I think there is a reality to face. High energy prices has made the country poorer and there's not a lot that can be done. I'd like to think he could level with us on that score.

[ncRover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

I didn’t like austerity. It is based on this fallacy that there is a finite amount of money in the world and that you have to take it from one place to have more in another.

Although, that same logic is applying now with those opposing tax cuts.

[normal rules]

Seems she is a Norwich fan too. And is ok with spending big there while putting on the job account.

[River Don]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

More windfall taxes on the energy giants profiteering out of the Ukraine war.

Imagine you were selling a product that your very business depended on. There is a shortage of that product, it’s wholesale cost has gone up and the future supply of that product is very uncertain. What would you do in the short term?

The government are trying to increase the supply with lifting the fracking ban.

The problem with fracking is it can't be brought online fast enough to make a difference this winter or next. It can't produce the volumes required to lower the wholesale price of gas.

Kwarteng has explained this thoroughly.

So what's the point?

[River Don]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

I didn’t like austerity. It is based on this fallacy that there is a finite amount of money in the world and that you have to take it from one place to have more in another.

Although, that same logic is applying now with those opposing tax cuts.

There is not a finite amount of money in the world but there is a finite amount of hydrocarbons that can be extracted affordably.

Energy is still mostly produced by burning hydrocarbons and money is a token that mostly represents energy.

[River Don]

It's worth remembering the head honcho of Caudrilla has also said that the geology in the UK means fracking is just not a worthwhile venture here.

[ncRover]

We’ll see on energy. It’s all very unpredictable.

On tax, weren’t Labour complaining about taxes and the national insurance hike a few months ago?

[Panda]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Without wanting to harp on about Covid again, it does however feel worth mentioning that in all likelihood we would have been under Covid restrictions for longer under a Labour government and thus destroying the economy even more than the Tories did.