truss

[i_ateallthepies]

[quote author =Filo link=topic=285964.msg1189470#msg1189470 date=1664392785]

Without the BoE intervention today pension funds would have collapsed, I wonder what our Tory voting pensioners on here have got to say about that?

Pension funds don’t just apply to retired people Filo.
Who are the Tory voting pensioners by the way, got any names?

Quote by Filo.
I know, I’m one

No way did you vote Tory. 

In exactly the same way that you didn't vote Tory.

What are you saying?

If reading it once isn't enough just keep trying, I'm sure you'll get there, clever fellow that you are.

Hound didn't vote Tory at the last GE. He just likes being argumentative (and he's not alone in that). But if people can't remember who he said he voted for - I a'int telling!

Btw if you read his posts he very rarely says anything pro-Tory. He just criticises Labour and Labour supporters a lot. Dont mistake the two.
[/quote]

Not mistaking anything, Wilts.  I know he insists that he isn't a Tory voter.  Your point that he criticises Labour supporters a lot is only part of the story.  He comments only critically of Labour the party and you would have to go a long way to find any criticism of the Tories in anything he says - in spite of the shit show of the last twelve years.

Hounds reply to Filo was basically calling him a liar, I simply commented in kind about his claims on his own voting history.

[drfchound]

[quote author =Filo link=topic=285964.msg1189470#msg1189470 date=1664392785]

Without the BoE intervention today pension funds would have collapsed, I wonder what our Tory voting pensioners on here have got to say about that?

Pension funds don’t just apply to retired people Filo.
Who are the Tory voting pensioners by the way, got any names?

Quote by Filo.
I know, I’m one

No way did you vote Tory. 

In exactly the same way that you didn't vote Tory.

What are you saying?

If reading it once isn't enough just keep trying, I'm sure you'll get there, clever fellow that you are.

Hound didn't vote Tory at the last GE. He just likes being argumentative (and he's not alone in that). But if people can't remember who he said he voted for - I a'int telling!

Btw if you read his posts he very rarely says anything pro-Tory. He just criticises Labour and Labour supporters a lot. Dont mistake the two.

Not mistaking anything, Wilts.  I know he insists that he isn't a Tory voter.  Your point that he criticises Labour supporters a lot is only part of the story.  He comments only critically of Labour the party and you would have to go a long way to find any criticism of the Tories in anything he says - in spite of the shit show of the last twelve years.

Hounds reply to Filo was basically calling him a liar, I simply commented in kind about his claims on his own voting history.
[/quote]

Kinell pies, you are saying I called Filo a liar.
Even Filo wouldn’t think that.
Did you fail to see the joke in my response to him.
Filos response of “I know, I’m one”, was to the “pension funds don’t just apply to retired people” that I wrote.
The joke “no way did you vote Tory” was a joke answer to my question who are the Tory voting pensioners, got any names” question.
You really do need to get a sense of humour.
Yes, I am critical of Labour and some of their supporters and I won’t apologise for that.
I have made some critical comments about the government.
By the way, I still think you are obsessed with finding fault with many of my posts.

[mugnapper]

I suppose one plus from this Financial Disaster is that Bankers will be earning whopping bonuses from it and also paying much less tax on those bonuses.
See, it’s not all bad news.

while i'm not saying i agree with scrapping the caps im not sure your right, if they got a bonus  say 500k and now they got a bonus of 1 million they would pay considerably more tax than they were before

⁷

I think you've missed the irony in my post.

[Filo]

[quote author =Filo link=topic=285964.msg1189470#msg1189470 date=1664392785]

Without the BoE intervention today pension funds would have collapsed, I wonder what our Tory voting pensioners on here have got to say about that?

Pension funds don’t just apply to retired people Filo.
Who are the Tory voting pensioners by the way, got any names?

Quote by Filo.
I know, I’m one

No way did you vote Tory. 

In exactly the same way that you didn't vote Tory.

What are you saying?

If reading it once isn't enough just keep trying, I'm sure you'll get there, clever fellow that you are.

Hound didn't vote Tory at the last GE. He just likes being argumentative (and he's not alone in that). But if people can't remember who he said he voted for - I a'int telling!

Btw if you read his posts he very rarely says anything pro-Tory. He just criticises Labour and Labour supporters a lot. Dont mistake the two.

Not mistaking anything, Wilts.  I know he insists that he isn't a Tory voter.  Your point that he criticises Labour supporters a lot is only part of the story.  He comments only critically of Labour the party and you would have to go a long way to find any criticism of the Tories in anything he says - in spite of the shit show of the last twelve years.

Hounds reply to Filo was basically calling him a liar, I simply commented in kind about his claims on his own voting history.
[/quote]

As usual Hound misread what I posted, is remark was pensions not only apply to retired people, of which I am one of them in both ways, I have a pension and I’m not retired

[albie]

Back to Truss and KamiKwasi, it seems they rejected the offer from the OBR to provide an analysis of their barmy budget:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1575565395599261703

Now, after the meltdown that anyone with a brain could see would happen, they are going to do what they should have done in the first place.

You and me won't get to see it until November 23, so deferred gratification for all!

[Panda]

Kamikwase 

Good one.

Kwasi is the epitome of a bloke educated to within an inch of his life but who has zero common sense.

These people infest politics.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Back to Truss and KamiKwasi, it seems they rejected the offer from the OBR to provide an analysis of their barmy budget:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1575565395599261703

Now, after the meltdown that anyone with a brain could see would happen, they are going to do what they should have done in the first place.

You and me won't get to see it until November 23, so deferred gratification for all!

Problem with this is, if the OBR was truly independent, they would just publish their report. As it is, the PM having a private meeting with the head of the OBR (a meeting of which I assume we'll see no minutes) leaves onlookers questioning just how independent it is.

Labour has an open goal here. To announce that they will raise the OBR's independence to the level of the BoE Monetary Policy Committee, and ask it to produce regular (every month?) assessments of the state of the economy which it, the OBR, will publish without any interference from Government.

There's a simple underpinning to this. Labour's economic and fiscal plans are based on solid, dependadable macroeconomic principles. The OBR, working to those principles, would broadly agree with a Labour Chancellor. The Tories under Truss and Kwarteng are using voodoo economics,supported by almost no-one outside a tiny group of crank economists. The OBR, free and independent, would call them out on that. Which is precisely why Kwarteng suppressed their report last week. Because it would have flatly contradicted what he said to Parliament last week.

[drfchound]

[quote author =Filo link=topic=285964.msg1189470#msg1189470 date=1664392785]

Without the BoE intervention today pension funds would have collapsed, I wonder what our Tory voting pensioners on here have got to say about that?

Pension funds don’t just apply to retired people Filo.
Who are the Tory voting pensioners by the way, got any names?

Quote by Filo.
I know, I’m one

No way did you vote Tory. 

In exactly the same way that you didn't vote Tory.

What are you saying?

If reading it once isn't enough just keep trying, I'm sure you'll get there, clever fellow that you are.

Hound didn't vote Tory at the last GE. He just likes being argumentative (and he's not alone in that). But if people can't remember who he said he voted for - I a'int telling!

Btw if you read his posts he very rarely says anything pro-Tory. He just criticises Labour and Labour supporters a lot. Dont mistake the two.

Not mistaking anything, Wilts.  I know he insists that he isn't a Tory voter.  Your point that he criticises Labour supporters a lot is only part of the story.  He comments only critically of Labour the party and you would have to go a long way to find any criticism of the Tories in anything he says - in spite of the shit show of the last twelve years.

Hounds reply to Filo was basically calling him a liar, I simply commented in kind about his claims on his own voting history.

As usual Hound misread what I posted, is remark was pensions not only apply to retired people, of which I am one of them in both ways, I have a pension and I’m not retired
[/quote]

Reply by hound to Filo:

I didn’t misread it Filo.
See my response to pies.
I made a joke to lighten the mood but you obviously missed that or chose not to acknowledge it.
Either way, I’m not really bothered.
I did also ask you to name the Tory voting posters on here but you didn’t give any names.
I’m glad though that you didn’t think I called you a liar.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, since the hedge funders on the far right of the Tory party appear to have made a killing yesterday shorting British debt, might as well try to make a few Bob out of this shit show.

11/4 that Truss is booted out by the Tory party before the next election.

9/4 and shortening this morning.

Get your bets on.

2/1 and shortening.

Tory MPs are briefing that letters of no confidence in Truss have already started to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

Don't say I didn't tell you.

7/4 and shortening.

6/4 and shortening.

Get this.

Starmer is 4/6 on to be PM after the next election.

But he's 17/10 against being the next PM.

Here's what is do if I were Starmer.

Table a vote of no confidence in Truss in the House.

Publicly announce that if Tory MPs join with him in bringing down Truss, Labour will support a Sunak-led Govt to get us out of this disaster.

11/10 now to be hoyed out before the election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS.

Surely, SURELY they aren't going to make the same mistake AGAIN and cut capital investment like Osborne did a decade ago.

Capital investment is absolutely crucial if we are going to get long term growth going again. Surely even this lot couldn't be so stupid as not to see that?

Err...sweet f**king Lord up above.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardALJones/status/1575730600111378432

[albie]

BST,

I agree that the OBR should report on a periodic and statutory basis.

The point about the OBR assessment is that once KamiKwasi has it, failing to publish it will increase jitters in the markets.
The report is there to give a financial overview of the political choices made by the Trusslers.

Absence of available evidence will only amplify misgivings among investors.
Given that it is to become available on Nov 23, there is no purpose in delay....all you are doing is to creating uncertainty.

All of which points to the fact that we are not dealing with rational people here.
If you make political choices based on beliefs, and without evidential support, it suggests that it is a cult running the UK.

[Glyn_Wigley]

PS.

Surely, SURELY they aren't going to make the same mistake AGAIN and cut capital investment like Osborne did a decade ago.

Capital investment is absolutely crucial if we are going to get long term growth going again. Surely even this lot couldn't be so stupid as not to see that?

Err...sweet f**king Lord up above.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardALJones/status/1575730600111378432

Christ, they're acting like sulky teenagers who are being deliberately contrary just to piss off their parents.

[Filo]

PS.

Surely, SURELY they aren't going to make the same mistake AGAIN and cut capital investment like Osborne did a decade ago.

Capital investment is absolutely crucial if we are going to get long term growth going again. Surely even this lot couldn't be so stupid as not to see that?

Err...sweet f**king Lord up above.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardALJones/status/1575730600111378432

Christ, they're acting like sulky teenagers who are being deliberately contrary just to piss off their parents.

She still acts like the anti monarchy Lib Dem student when her views didn’t matter and she was irrelevent, she’s a nut job

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie

I think you're being too harsh and too easy on them.

I honestly don't think Kwarteng witheld the OBR report because he's irrational. I think it's far worse than that. He believes the utter dogshit economics spouted by Minford, Lyons and Jessup that the tax cuts will spur growth.

Of course, the OBR doesn't believe that. And will have said so in their report. Kwarteng wants to suppress the report because he genuinely believes the OBR is wrong and he and his crank advisers are right. That's perfectly rational behaviour if you genuinely believe something so catastrophically wrong.

[albie]

But its not rational if you want to calm unease on the markets, which is a fundamental role for the Chancellor.

I think Minford and the rest are just a fig leaf, providing a reference backstop, but irrelevant to the political decision making.

The instability in the markets is a goldmine to those who make money from gaming the system.
Short sellers are quids in on the uncertainty gifted by the Trusslers.

Like KamiKwasi's old mate, Crispin Odey;
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/kwasi-kwarteng-crispin-odey-government-bonds-profit/

Coincidence?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think they genuinely believe or at least believed this was a little local difficulty and they could brazen their way through it. That they'd look all TINA strong and far-sighted when their approach worked.

Yes it's absolute batshit, but not in their minds.

Anyway. So much for that post-Johnson bounce, eh?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I have to feel for the decent Tory backbenchers. They got rid of Boris because they were fed up of lying to protect a liar, which is understandable. But now they find themselves having to try to support and explain the inexplicable.

[les@donr]

Truss policies  are slash and burn.

[SydneyRover]

We know there's at least 90,000 civil servants for the chop, what else, those at the base of the pyramid haven't got anything more to give.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The movement in the polls is just astonishing.



I'm struggling to think of any previous occasion when the poll lead has changed by 20% in a week across a range of polls.

And here's the thing when you still down into the numbers. It's mainly 2019 Tory voters now saying they will vote Labour. Plus, on a smaller level, people who previously supported the Greens and LDs switching to Labour, presumably because they've realised that we have to get this shower of shite out of power.

It feels like there's been an awakening of people who have wavered but stuck with the Tories, finally seeing the light and seeing them for what they are. It feels like one of those once in half a generation moments where the baton passes. Like the Winter of Discontent, Black Wednesday or the GFC, and people decide that a basic change is needed.

Might not last of course. Truss may surprise us all. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[SydneyRover]

The stonewalling in the face of a financial crisis which sent shivers down international markets too was quite something, especially as it was a completely avoidable own goal.

[les@donr]

In power, but without power nor authority.

[SydneyRover]

the Times: levelling up secretary, simon clarke

''Britain has lived in a ''fools paradise'' for too long and must reduce public spending to pay for the ₤45 billion worth of tax cuts''

Too many have been ready to confer power onto a bunch of selfish ***** that would rather line their pockets and in turn feed those willing to support them at the ballot box.

The risk to social cohesion is massive.

[SydneyRover]

''Liz Truss is preparing to push ahead with an unlimited number of “investment zones” despite a row within the government that it could hand an uncosted blank cheque of tax breaks to businesses.

The Treasury is believed to have raised concerns about “carpet bombing the entire country” with investment zones, with the government about to announce an appeal for areas to apply within days – as the Conservatives prepare for their annual conference in Birmingham''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/30/liz-truss-to-push-ahead-with-unlimited-investment-zones-despite-costs-row

maniacs on steroids

[mugnapper]

the Times: levelling up secretary, simon clarke

''Britain has lived in a ''fools paradise'' for too long and must reduce public spending to pay for the ₤45 billion worth of tax cuts''

Too many have been ready to confer power onto a bunch of selfish ***** that would rather line their pockets and in turn feed those willing to support them at the ballot box.

The risk to social cohesion is massive.

Energy Company excess profits forecast to be £160 BILLION.
I wonder why Mr Clarke can’t see an opportunity to pay for his tax cuts in one fell swoop?

(To put £160 billion pounds in context, as it’s a number most of us will find difficult to contextualise, NASA put a vehicle with a picture taking drone (imagine the roaming charges on that) on Mars for $4.3 billion (approx, well, £4.3 billion now).

[wilts rover]

Good read here if you want to understand where Truss got her ideas from - and why they wont work.

Why Liz Truss hasn't understood a word I wrote - by her favourite political author:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/-liz-truss-hasn-t-understood-a-word-i-wrote-says-pm-s-favourite-author

[mugnapper]

You have to remember that the Spectator is a Tory magazine and numbers among it's former editors one Alexander de Pfeffle Johnson. (Or Boris as the Russian gentlemen holding incriminating video of him at one of Lebedev's parties, call him).
So there may be a little bias, but it's surely a prime example of the Conservative Party, ripping itself apart.

[MachoMadness]

Part of me is sort of pleased that they're going mask off. It'll put these far right libertarian ideas about low taxes to bed forever. The other part is horrified by the price we'll all pay for it, though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM

It won't though. Because it's become an article of faith on the Right. The whole Laffer Curve obsession. It plays to the intellectually stunted t**ts who have read Ayn Rand and thought they'd uncovered some basic truth about the evil of government and the sanctity of individual liberty.

When it goes tits up this time, there'll be a reason. There's always a reason. And the next generation will be as zealous as this one.

It's up to grown ups to beat down that argument every generation.

When

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is disgraceful by The Mirror. They should hang their heads in shame.

https://twitter.com/KwasiKwarteng/status/1576133060411523072?s=20&t=SbhvvhgndvjHyxX09hyfCA