The Labour Files

[Iberian Red]

I will.
Those liars in opposition aren't going to build another 40 new hospitals.

They are not going to stop the boats.

Thet won't put £250 a week into the NHS.

Kier Starmer's wife has probably avoided tax.

Also if the country ever finds itself in a crisis,they will be handing out millions of pounds to friends and landlords of local pubs , pissing it up while millions suffer.
I'd never trust an opposition like that.

[Iberian Red]

I will.
Those liars in opposition aren't going to build another 40 new hospitals.

They are not going to stop the boats.

Thet won't put £250m a week into the NHS.

Kier Starmer's wife has probably avoided tax.

Also if the country ever finds itself in a crisis,they will be handing out millions of pounds to friends and landlords of local pubs , pissing it up while millions suffer.
I'd never trust an opposition like that.

Edit.  I'd have to be thick as f@#k to vote for a party like that.

[Not Now Kato]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

Loving the blind loyalty , Keith renegades on practically everything he's promised from standing for the Labour Party leader and whilst leader .

Excuse my scepticism that his Election Manifesto will be any different with the historic track record .

It's generally a good idea as a prospective Labour PM to actually come across as someone you can have confidence in and at least some kind of trust even if you don't always agree with everything .

The only person who will hand the next election to the Tories is Keith Starmer himself .

Don't think for one moment that he isn't capable of blowing this .

A man with no beliefs is incapable of leadership .

Please read what I put. No blind loyalty in anything I wrote.
 
Meantime, I’ll wait for the various manifestos which, by the way, will be those of the various parties and not of any individual.

[Not Now Kato]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

Kato, after what has gone before I just want someone who can be trusted and relied on to run the country.
I genuinely don’t think KS is that man.

Not an unreasonable requirement Hound. So which party leader fulfils that requirement in your view?

[Not Now Kato]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

[belton rover]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

But you clearly don’t believe they have the people who could deliver a good manifesto (neither do I, by the way), do you? So what is the point in waiting for their manifesto?

[Not Now Kato]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

But you clearly don’t believe they have the people who could deliver a good manifesto (neither do I, by the way), do you? So what is the point in waiting for their manifesto?

Because, by the time their manifesto is issued, there may be significant changes in those at the 'top'.  There are, I believe, far better people on their back benches than there are in cabinet.
 
Having said that, it is sad that the previous and current regimes did all they could to drive away a number of the 'better' Tories.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

If the Tories come up with such a manifesto at the next election, the bigger question to me is why they aren't implementing it now instead of letting things stagnate until then.

[wilts rover]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

And what have you seen whilst in government that makes you believe the Tories will stick to anything they put in a manefesto given they haven't done so for the last one?

Or can you show me where to find details of the 40 new hospitals, how the country has been 'levelled up' and in what way banning protests and strikes has 'taken back control'?

[belton rover]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

If the Tories come up with such a manifesto at the next election, the bigger question to me is why they aren't implementing it now instead of letting things stagnate until then.

That applies to any party hoping to get re-elected, doesn’t it?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

If the Tories come up with such a manifesto at the next election, the bigger question to me is why they aren't implementing it now instead of letting things stagnate until then.

That applies to any party hoping to get re-elected, doesn’t it?

No, usually a sitting government's basic position is 'more of the same' with perhaps one or two new policies thrown in.

What do you think will happen if 'more of the same' is the Tories' message at the next election? And if they say they'll make big changes, the electorate will surely say 'why haven't you made these big changes before going into an election (and then saying 'more of the same') instead of promising them for afterwards'.

[drfchound]

To be truthful Glyn, there will always be plenty of people who will vote Tory and not ask the questions that you are mentioning.
From reading posts on here over the years I am confident that the majority of Labour supporters amongst us would do the same in similar circumstances.

[Glyn_Wigley]

To be truthful Glyn, there will always be plenty of people who will vote Tory and not ask the questions that you are mentioning.
From reading posts on here over the years I am confident that the majority of Labour supporters amongst us would do the same in similar circumstances.

It was a well-understood phenomenon even back when I studied Politics over forty years ago. The only thing that's changed are the projected percentages

[Not Now Kato]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

If the Tories come up with such a manifesto at the next election, the bigger question to me is why they aren't implementing it now instead of letting things stagnate until then.

Indeed.

[Not Now Kato]

Perhaps you should wait and see what’s in the respective manifestos before making up your minds.
 
Oh, wait, you won’t read them will you; you’ve already made your minds up you’d rather have the current bunch irrespective of their total failings!

So will you be voting for the totally failing Tories if they have a better manifesto than Labour?

If, and it’s a big IF, the Tory Party comes up with a manifesto which I believe will be better for the country as a whole, (or at least for the majority of people in the country). And if, again it’s a big IF, I believe they have the people who can deliver what’s in it; then of course I would. Only a fool would do otherwise.
 
But, given their current track record, it is highly unlikely indeed. For those portending to be conservatives today are nowhere near the calibre of their predecessors!  They have demonstrated this without any shadow of doubt.
 

And what have you seen whilst in government that makes you believe the Tories will stick to anything they put in a manefesto given they haven't done so for the last one?

Or can you show me where to find details of the 40 new hospitals, how the country has been 'levelled up' and in what way banning protests and strikes has 'taken back control'?

As I have said, the current incumbents are a bunch of charlatans. There is nothing that I have seen that would have me believe anything they say. That isn’t to say that there aren’t better conservatives on the back benches that could do a better job.
 
But then, my Dog could do a better job, and I don’t even have a dog!

[ncRover]

If Labour have won Selby then they will walk the general election. Never thought I’d ever see that. Well done to the young lad.

They will gain a fair few in Scotland from the SNP too.

[tommy toes]

The result in Uxbridge shows the mentality of the average voter.
Never mind the last 13 years of Tory misrule, Austerity, the cost of living crisis, the blatant corruption and lies during covid, Liz Truss, no I'll vote Tory coz I don't want to pay a clean air charge.

[Ldr]

The result in Uxbridge shows the mentality of the average voter.
Never mind the last 13 years of Tory misrule, Austerity, the cost of living crisis, the blatant corruption and lies during covid, Liz Truss, no I'll vote Tory coz I don't want to pay a clean air charge.

Local election decided on local issue shocker

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

People will vote for what matters to them on a whole, that's kind of the point.  Momentum is good for labour at the moment and thats usually a positive sign in most things.

I think the biggest issues for labour are them making their own mistakes and what those that actually aren't voting in these elections think.

I don't think sunak is a bad leader but he's leading a pretty tricky bunch. I suspect he'll benefit a bit from Johnson and others now being gone.

[ravenrover]

Sunak is as corrupt as the rest of them JMHO

[drfchound]

Raven, I’m curious.
Why do you think that.

[ravenrover]

Undeclated interests might be a start. Shall we say to be kind  "dodgy dealings" as Chancellor

[wilts rover]

Raven, I’m curious.
Why do you think that.

Some light reading for you hound. As far as I am aware his wife's company is still operating, and making her/them money, in Russia in defiance of British sanctions:

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/06/06/government-fraud-quadruples-on-rishi-sunaks-watch-new-report-reveals/

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/18/everything-to-declare-the-conflicts-of-interest-rishi-sunak-wont-talk-about/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/17/parliament-watchdog-opens-investigation-into-rishi-sunak

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-slam-rishi-sunaks-increasing-30092923

https://gal-dem.com/rishi-sunak-cost-of-living-bad-politician-tory-leadership/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-akshata-murthy-non-dom-wife-tax-b2052251.html

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/firm-owned-family-rishi-sunaks-23630660

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/who-owns-infosys-rishi-sunak-scheme-akshata-murty-b1076499.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/10/from-non-dom-to-green-card-questions-still-facing-rishi-sunak

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-admits-having-us-green-card-while-chancellor-12585472

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/04/infosys-still-operating-russia-rishi-sunak-akshata-murty

[danumdon]

If Labour have won Selby then they will walk the general election. Never thought I’d ever see that. Well done to the young lad.

They will gain a fair few in Scotland from the SNP too.

So the citizens of Selby and Ainsty now have a 25 year old Mp, fresh out of Oxford, spending his youth working as a PA advisor to the CBI and parliamentary researcher for Wes Streeting no less.

Supports Starmer's policy of keeping the two kids benefit cap and is willing and eager to do his masters bidding,

I have a Border Terrier who does the same

Welcome to Starmer's New Labour, same as the Old New Labour but with the charisma bypass to boot.

[tyke1962]

What  pysses myself off personally  with regard to the Labour Party of today isn't the fact we don't run the whole show .

In fact even with Corbyn as leader the centre and the right of the party weren't excluded , at least not in the same way or to the depths the left are now excluded today .

If the centre and right didn't want to work with Corbyn or plotted against him then that was their choice but totally excluded wasn't on the agenda .

On the back of a Labour Party Membership Card it says Democratic Socialist Party , I'll let that one hang .

So whatever we have in play today from the Labour Party is the Fiscal Responsibility narrative so as to paint the picture of the party as the one you can trust with the country's money the most , your taxes , my taxes and so forth .

All well and good , well not really , the picture painted here is to tell the electorate there's nothing in the kitty , any spending will have to be accountable , budget responsibility and so on .

This is then Labour off the hook with regards to improving things after the last 13 years or set to be 14 next year and election year .

Nowt we can do dear electorate , it's a shyte show we've inherited , not our fault .

This is totally wrong , of course they can do something like hmmm have some policies that bring in revenue to the treasury that will improve the lives of millions of people , it's their job to do something , acceptance isn't what they are supposed to do .

Of course there are limits to what can be done and of course it can't be done overnight , all this i can accept .

But I'm not having for one minute a shrug of the shoulders and acceptance which comes from the Labour Party of today .

I'd have thought getting kids born in to poverty out of it and giving them a better start in life would lead to them having better choices in life as they grow up , better job prospects , a higher degree of wealth than what they were born in to which benefits not only themselves but society in general .

That's just one example of the thinking that should be at the heart of any Labour Party .

What I'm seeing is that the Labour Party is incapable of that kind of vision OR it simply doesn't want to know and to be honest I don't know which it is which is a position I shouldn't have to contemplate .

If the Party is incapable of providing the change the country is desperate for then why should I even be remotely tempted to vote for it ? .

Why should my vote be for more of the same ? , why should my name be attached to the debacle that's potentially coming if Labour win the next GE ? .

Or are we back to the " You've no where else to go " rabbit hole once again that was thrown in our faces from New Labour .

We swallowed that shyte sandwich but I ain't so sure I'm up for second helpings .

[Branton Red]

The result in Uxbridge shows the mentality of the average voter.
Never mind the last 13 years of Tory misrule, Austerity, the cost of living crisis, the blatant corruption and lies during covid, Liz Truss, no I'll vote Tory coz I don't want to pay a clean air charge.

I disagree. It was a legitimate protest vote. They knew the result of the bye election wouldn't impact who was running the country. Let's see how they vote their in the GE if ULEZ is still an issue.

It's easy for us living elsewhere or wealthy middle class commentators or politicians to get on a environmentalist pedestal and criticise people for not willing to pay a clean air charge.

But if someone lives in Uxbridge and need to get to work through this new zone but can't afford to buy a new hybrid/electric car I can understand their anger.

I'm not fully against the scheme on principle but the timing is awful in the middle of a cost of living crisis and it will hit the (relatively) poorest hardest - and there is no relief in the system to mitigate the cost on the poorest.

[tyke1962]

The result in Uxbridge shows the mentality of the average voter.
Never mind the last 13 years of Tory misrule, Austerity, the cost of living crisis, the blatant corruption and lies during covid, Liz Truss, no I'll vote Tory coz I don't want to pay a clean air charge.

I disagree. It was a legitimate protest vote. They knew the result of the bye election wouldn't impact who was running the country. Let's see how they vote their in the GE if ULEZ is still an issue.

It's easy for us living elsewhere or wealthy middle class commentators or politicians to get on a environmentalist pedestal and criticise people for not willing to pay a clean air charge.

But if someone lives in Uxbridge and need to get to work through this new zone but can't afford to buy a new hybrid/electric car I can understand their anger.

I'm not fully against the scheme on principle but the timing is awful in the middle of a cost of living crisis and it will hit the (relatively) poorest hardest - and there is no relief in the system to mitigate the cost on the poorest.

Branton , just another aspect of Thursdays elections .

Whilst the Labour Party may well want to back slap themselves after overcoming such a huge Tory majority let's look a little deeper in to what actually happened .

At the 2019 GE , the Labour vote was 13, 858 , on Thursday it was 16, 456 .

The truth is Labour only attracted 2,598 more voters than they did in 2019 .

This on the back of Johnson's shenanigans , Truss trashing the economy , inflation and high interest rates .

Enough going on you would think to oust the Tories which admittedly they did .

The Tories lost the seat because voters stayed at home and  not because Labour attracted them .

That's just not the left pointing out to the shyte sandwich on offer that's the whole electorate telling you .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

When you take a break from your stream of consciousness posts, here's one for you to ponder.

What policy slate do you think Labour could offer which would a) please you and b) get the folk of Selby and Ainsty out in their droves, singing The Red Flag?

[tommy toes]

Branton

ULEZ was Boris Johnson's idea and it was Wolfie's mate Grant Schapps (Michael Green) who implemented the widening of the scheme to places like Uxbridge.

[Branton Red]

Branton

ULEZ was Boris Johnson's idea and it was Wolfie's mate Grant Schapps (Michael Green) who implemented the widening of the scheme to places like Uxbridge.

I'm not contradicting you on that.

But it's Labour under Sadiq Khan who are implementing it now and have the power over how/when/if it goes ahead. And that's what the voters see and quite legitimately voted against in a perfectly understandable protest.