Emergency Meeting (FAO Silent_majority)

[ravenrover]

Filling up week on week where I sit in West.

[Silkscarf]

The stadium is roughly symmetrical. Think of everyone at the match cramming into the Western half as much as possible without vacant seats. So a full West, next to a three quarter full South, East standers join away fans in the Western side of the North. Voilà about 7k.

[drfchound]

They look to be holding up pretty well to me.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/doncaster-rovers/attendances

Those figures include away fans of course and Carlisle had a decent following today.
They also include season ticket holders who don’t attend.
There is no way there were 7000 plus in the stadium today.

Just as much as there is no way the attendances are going down. 

You clearly aren't a West Stand attender or watching on iPlayer then Glyn.  The view from which the attendance in the east stand is drastically lower than previous seasons.  I would estimate easily fewer than 50% of even last season.

Of course crowds are down on previous seasons, we've been relegated! But Hound said supporters are drifting away - present tense - which means within this season.

Yes, I am saying people are drifting away.
I attend every home game and have noticed fewer people walking round the lake from where we park the car, I have noticed that we are getting away from the car park more quickly and with fewer queues.  I have seen with my own eyes that there are more empty seats in the three sides of the ground that have home supporters in them.
There are fewer people in the South Stand concourse pre match and at half time.

[Bentley Bullet]

Filling up week on week where I sit in West.

Yes, there has been one or two with tears in their eyes where I sit too.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And I've seen the official attendance figures with my own eyes.

[BobG]

Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....

BobG

[drfchound]

And I've seen the official attendance figures with my own eyes.

Official attendances include ST holders who don’t attend.
Funny how some people who don’t attend have different opinions to those who do.

[Spud]

I don't get why we have "official attendance" at all if that's the case.
Let's just call it tickets sold if it's for tax reasons, if it's official attendance then it should be how many have passed through the turnstiles otherwise what's the point?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

One of the weird things in life I think. Why do football fans care how many other football fans attend or not?  You wouldn't go in to Tesco and wonder what the attendance is that day so why at football?

[i_ateallthepies]

Being a man of money, bfyp, I would have thought the first reason (increased attendance = increased income = improved potential to strengthen the playing budget), would be obvious to you.  Another valid reason might be the increased numbers supporting makes for a better atmosphere and increases the energy of the players to compete, thus improving the chance of success.

[Draytonian III]

With us winning a couple of matches it seems that certain people have found another subject to have a go at the club for.

[Silkscarf]

In the R’son period it was a question of how small the crowd was. Many stopped going because we were hopeless, others in protest. On balance I carried on going as I figured it was my club not his. Lowest gate was about 1200 I guess. 7000 in Belle Vue was a big crowd for all of the time I saw us there.

[BobG]

I thought one night game the gate was down to 700 and something? Not sure, but I do have a memory of a sub 1000 gate or two.

BobG

[Campsall rover]

I thought one night game the gate was down to 700 and something? Not sure, but I do have a memory of a sub 1000 gate or two.

BobG

I think about 980 was the lowest league gate in 97/98  I might be wrong but think we had one gate blow 1.000

[ridgewoodrover]

Seem to remember we played Barnet on a Tues afternoon to save money on the electricity.
I attended because I was on a 5PM start.
Glad to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[drfchound]

Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....

BobG

Bob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.

[idler]

Seem to remember we played Barnet on a Tues afternoon to save money on the electricity.
I attended because I was on a 5PM start.
Glad to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I took a half day and came across from Bradford for that one. I think that there were about 1,200 there.
Wasn't the Chester gate where fans boycotted or went in late 700 and something?

[ctay]

I remember an evening game with Blackpool (Leyland Daf or something), which was around 700. If memory serves correct, the game was suspended for 10 minutes due to heavy rain and thunder. I am sure it was the time Trevor Sinclair was still with them.

[Silkscarf]

Seem to remember we played Barnet on a Tues afternoon to save money on the electricity.
I attended because I was on a 5PM start.
Glad to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I took a half day and came across from Bradford for that one. I think that there were about 1,200 there.
Wasn't the Chester gate where fans boycotted or went in late 700 and something?

It’s probably that game I’m thinking of. League games are the real test.

[BradwellRover]

Hi,

I think two home league games that season fell below 1,000 as follows:

* 2/12/97 v Chester (2-1 win) - 846
* 3/3/98 v Barnet (0-2 loss) - 739

A brave 580 watched us lose 0-1 at home to Rochdale in the league trophy as well.

Funny how easy it is to forget how bad it was and puts a lot of the current challenges in to perspective.
 
Matt

[ridgewoodrover]

We really were in a bad place in the late nineties.
It is disappointing how we’ve dropped off the pace in the last few years.
But I’m still happy where the club is and in our general direction.
We’re not perfect by any means, but hopefully the long term outlook is bright.

[BradwellRover]

Pretty sure I was at the Barnet game, but I definitely missed Chester - didn’t see many wins that season!

[BobG]

Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....

BobG

Bob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.

I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.

BobG

[ForsolongaRover]

Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....

BobG

Bob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.

I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.

BobG

Is it not the case that Bramall subsidises the club? And do we actually get to see the complete accounts? I get the impression that they don’t make any profit and that there will be losses brought forward to offset any future profits (if any are likely). So no tax would be payable would it?

[BobG]

Tax losses are just as important as taxable profit!!

BobG

[drfchound]

Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....

BobG

Bob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.

I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.

BobG

You wrote about shinanegans with attendance figures during a conversation about whether there were as many supporters in the ground as the official figures indicated.
I suggested that any “fiddling” would be the other way round in the event of the club wanting to change their tax liability.
What are the the differences between two separate points.

[ctay]

The Barnet game was a 2pm kick off, I had to skip school to attend.

[BobG]

I said it would be a hugely dangerous thhing to fiddle attendance figures. I then remsrked that I thought there were only 700 or so attending a keague match in that final Firestarter season. The two points are entirely unrelated.

BobG

[Spud]

Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....

BobG

Bob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.

I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.

BobG

Is it not the case that Bramall subsidises the club? And do we actually get to see the complete accounts? I get the impression that they don’t make any profit and that there will be losses brought forward to offset any future profits (if any are likely). So no tax would be payable would it?

There'd be income tax on the players wages to pay for starters I'd guess.
I would imagine that's where a lot of clubs fall foul.

[Draytonian III]

The Barnet game was a 2pm kick off, I had to skip school to attend.

I skipped work to attend, Harry Gresham was there with a Look North film crew