Sack the board

[Campsall rover]

Morecambe have an average home gate of over 4500 in League One.

Accrington Stanley have had 5 seasons in League 1 with around 3000.
Bradford City have had four seasons in League 2 with over 10000.

Accrington Stanly have the best manager of all 92 Premier league and EFL clubs.

Based on the size of the club, attendances and budget Coleman should have had Manager of the season for 6 yrs running imo.
He has produced a miracle at that club.

[ravenrover]

Barring the cameo ( and quite wonderful might I add) signing of billy, we were blessed with a group of relatively unremarkable players that just clicked. John Ryan was a wonderfully vocal and positive ambassador for the club also. It was certainly a high point for the club.

So nothing to do woth SoD or RK then, just clicked!!!

[silent majority]

David Blunt has never taken a penny out of this club, nor has TB.

They have both contributed millions though into keeping this club going.

And this is how we value them?

[Campsall rover]

David Blunt has never taken a penny out of this club, nor has TB.

They have both contributed millions though into keeping this club going.

And this is how we value them?

Thanks for that SM
As I thought.  Amazing isn’t it how much rubbish is posted without any factual evidence.

[wilts rover]

A chairman of a company will normally get paid so wouldn’t be surprised if Blunt was getting a salary.

We should make his and others salary more performance related imo. They’d owe the club money right now

Will they, who knew! How much did John Ryan get paid then btw?

I suggest you research how football clubs are financed before showing your ignorance on a public forum.

A chairman of a company will normally get paid so wouldn’t be surprised if Blunt was getting a salary.

We should make his and others salary more performance related imo. They’d owe the club money right now

Will they, who knew! How much did John Ryan get paid then btw?

I suggest you research how football clubs are financed before showing your ignorance on a public forum.

Why bring Ryan into it. A chairman doesn’t fund the club the owner does. Sometimes it’s the same person sometimes they aren’t but as I said in business the role of chairman is paid.

Read what I said and count to 10 before you post on a public forum.

Because John Ryan was the chairman of Doncaster Rovers - just as David Blunt is - so the situation for him must be the same as for Blunt. You are happy to tell us Blunt takes money from Rovers so did John Ryan?

Shareholders fund the club. The owners of a business are the people who own the shares of that business - what else is it do you think they own?

[wilts rover]

Morecambe have an average home gate of over 4500 in League One.

Accrington Stanley have had 5 seasons in League 1 with around 3000.
Bradford City have had four seasons in League 2 with over 10000.

Accrington Stanly have the best manager of all 92 Premier league and EFL clubs.

Based on the size of the club, attendances and budget Coleman should have had Manager of the season for 6 yrs running imo.
He has produced a miracle at that club.

My point exactly. It's not how much money you have - its how you use it. Same with any business.

[Campsall rover]

Morecambe have an average home gate of over 4500 in League One.

Accrington Stanley have had 5 seasons in League 1 with around 3000.
Bradford City have had four seasons in League 2 with over 10000.

Accrington Stanly have the best manager of all 92 Premier league and EFL clubs.

Based on the size of the club, attendances and budget Coleman should have had Manager of the season for 6 yrs running imo.
He has produced a miracle at that club.

My point exactly. It's not how much money you have - its how you use it. Same with any business.

Well said.
Banging our heads against a brick wall though because there are some that simply refuse to understand that fact.

[Bentley Bullet]

So why do football clubs have rich owners?

[wilts rover]

Obviously I don’t know the situation with Blunt but it’s very normal to get paid in business for the role and we seem to run more as a business than a football club

Yet above you tell us you do know the situation?

How should football clubs be run if not as businesses?

Levy is the CEO at Spurs as well as Chairman.

[wilts rover]

So why do football clubs have rich owners?

There's always a book about it:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Money-Football-Soccernomics-Unterhaching-Scunthorpe/dp/1568585268

[Campsall rover]

So why do football clubs have rich owners?

What do you mean BB?  I will see you at the match probably. 

[roversdude]

Look I think we are United in how we feel about the current league position (even if we are within touching distance of the play offs), however for all the the anti board posts I am yet to see anyone put forward an alternative. It’s all well and goodi saying sell it - but who to ? The first person who turns up ? Mr Hedge Fund ?
There are a lot of clubs over the last few years cursing their owners
In my honest opinion a couple of wins and the question of ownership will slip down the conversational order

[Bentley Bullet]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

[Bentley Bullet]

So why do football clubs have rich owners?

What do you mean BB?  I will see you at the match probably. 

I mean football clubs, in general, are barely profitable, therefore the richer the owners are the more cash can be injected into the team. Without enough cash being injected, teams will struggle against teams who have had enough cash injected.

[Campsall rover]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

It is BB but throwing vast sums of personnel wealth is a choice not a pre requisite.

You or me if we had the funds might be prepared to lose it in the pursuit of glory. There are others who are only prepared to lose so much.

Unless that benefactor knocks on the door then what? We have to be thankful for owners who care and have made the club financially stable, debt free and therefore an attractive proposition for somebody to come in and buy the club.

[tyke1962]

In my experience there are certain results which can define you successfully for a number of years and then there's the other side to that when a result kills you equally for a number of years .

That penalty shoot out defeat at The Valley set you back , that's not a flaw by the way that's just the way football goes .

You get through that semi final and beat Sunderland at Wembley which you were more than capable of doing it changes everything that's happened since .

That Play Off Final defeat to Ipswich Town in 2000 killed us , ended the golden era stone dead .

We win that game and return to the PL with Dave Bassett at the helm who knew a thing or two about PL survival and who knows where my club could be today .

We've never seen those days since or had the resources to buy the players we did back then and what's more we probably won't ever again .

23 years ago and it still haunts me .

Football is remarkably cruel when it goes against you .

All the present issues date back to that night at The Valley in 2019 .

[TommyC]

Noted regarding Blunt not taking anything out. Also news to me that he contributed millions to the club. That's news to me too. But thanks for the clarification  SM.

Regarding Baldwin and his third share of Club Doncaster that he has somehow acquired....does his package incentivise him acheiving the board's overriding objective of sustainability? 

Let's be honest here, sustainability is number one objective before anything else so it would seem obvious that the  CEO is targeted to achieve that. Why would Baldwin prioritise success on the pitch if that meant failure to hit the sustainability target hit him in the pocket?

All supposition of course. And to my eyes nothing wrong with any of it from a business perspective. This is the result of us being run like a business rather than a football club relying on handouts from a benefactor. Great for the Shareholders....not so great for the fans. Balancing the books comes before everything else I'm afraid guys!

[Bentley Bullet]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

It is BB but throwing vast sums of personnel wealth is a choice not a pre requisite.

You or me if we had the funds might be prepared to lose it in the pursuit of glory. There are others who are only prepared to lose so much.

Unless that benefactor knocks on the door then what? We have to be thankful for owners who care and have made the club financially stable, debt free and therefore an attractive proposition for somebody to come in and buy the club.

I agree CR, but it absolutely IS about how much money you put into the team. Would Rovers have reached the Championship without Ryan, Bramall & Watson's investment?

[TommyC]

David Blunt has never taken a penny out of this club, nor has TB.

They have both contributed millions though into keeping this club going.

And this is how we value them?

Or, looked at from a different perspective, they took control of a respected upper League 1/bottom Championship club. That club had a well respected reputation in the game, a clear identity and a clear style of football, in a nice stadium with a small but vociferous fanbase. We were a club that punched above our weight but garnered respect across the game as to how we go about things.

And over time due to a combination of incompetence and mismanagement of footballing matters they have presided over a decline in the clubs fortunes to the extent that we now find ourselves languishing in the arse end of League 2 with a poor squad, scruffy stadium, no identity and widespread apathy amongst the fan base. The principles and identity of the old Doncaster Rovers have been sacrificed at the expense of financial sustainability and being run as a proper business.

All this crap about how grateful we should be. Owning a football club means having to put your hand in your pocket shocker! Who knew?! What sanctimonious twaddle. There was a DRFC before Terry Bramall, Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt and there'll be one after they're gone. Give me a plucky little club run by footballing people with a sense of identity, even if that is in non league, over this corporate non-entity we currently have.

Hypothetical scenario.....John Ryan says he's happy to take over the club but realistically he can only bankroll us to achieve and sustain the status of a top end Conference club. Is it just me who would snap his hand off?!

[Campsall rover]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

It is BB but throwing vast sums of personnel wealth is a choice not a pre requisite.

You or me if we had the funds might be prepared to lose it in the pursuit of glory. There are others who are only prepared to lose so much.

Unless that benefactor knocks on the door then what? We have to be thankful for owners who care and have made the club financially stable, debt free and therefore an attractive proposition for somebody to come in and buy the club.

I agree CR, but it absolutely IS about how much money you put into the team. Would Rovers have reached the Championship without Ryan, Bramall & Watson's investment?

No we would not almost certainly. But we also had a manger and coach in SoD & RoK who also made it possible.
You can throw as much money at it as you want but without an excellent Manager & or Coach you still will not have success.

[Bentley Bullet]

Of course, the manager has to sign the right players to be successful, but no matter how excellent a manager is he needs sufficient funds to do so.

Gary Coleman's doing a great job at Accrington, but they're lying 21st in League 1. I bet he'd have them higher than that if he had more funds. On the other hand, I wonder if Accrington would be higher if  Pep Guardiola was the manager.

[vaya]

David Blunt has never taken a penny out of this club, nor has TB.

They have both contributed millions though into keeping this club going.

And this is how we value them?

Or, looked at from a different perspective, they took control of a respected upper League 1/bottom Championship club. That club had a well respected reputation in the game, a clear identity and a clear style of football, in a nice stadium with a small but vociferous fanbase. We were a club that punched above our weight but garnered respect across the game as to how we go about things.

And over time due to a combination of incompetence and mismanagement of footballing matters they have presided over a decline in the clubs fortunes to the extent that we now find ourselves languishing in the arse end of League 2 with a poor squad, scruffy stadium, no identity and widespread apathy amongst the fan base. The principles and identity of the old Doncaster Rovers have been sacrificed at the expense of financial sustainability and being run as a proper business.

All this crap about how grateful we should be. Owning a football club means having to put your hand in your pocket shocker! Who knew?! What sanctimonious twaddle. There was a DRFC before Terry Bramall, Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt and there'll be one after they're gone. Give me a plucky little club run by footballing people with a sense of identity, even if that is in non league, over this corporate non-entity we currently have.

Hypothetical scenario.....John Ryan says he's happy to take over the club but realistically he can only bankroll us to achieve and sustain the status of a top end Conference club. Is it just me who would snap his hand off?!

I'm sure advocating a drop into the National League is likely to produce overwhelming popular support.

[Campsall rover]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

It is BB but throwing vast sums of personnel wealth is a choice not a pre requisite.

You or me if we had the funds might be prepared to lose it in the pursuit of glory. There are others who are only prepared to lose so much.

Unless that benefactor knocks on the door then what? We have to be thankful for owners who care and have made the club financially stable, debt free and therefore an attractive proposition for somebody to come in and buy the club.

I agree CR, but it absolutely IS about how much money you put into the team. Would Rovers have reached the Championship without Ryan, Bramall & Watson's investment?

But for JR it was not sustainable. He would have run out of money.
So he brought in Bramall & Watson.  They could see that the business model JR had was frought with long term danger.
JR left after a major disagreement.  The strategy has been to make the club self sustainable and that has been achieved but unfortunately without that extra million or 2 each season the football team has declined.
Having said that if GM hadn’t left in summer of 2019 who knows where we would be now.

For me it’s been more about the managers and recruitment than the finances. 
We should never have got relegated last season.  Wellens messed up and GmS wasn’t the man to turn our season round. Hence where we are right now.

What we do need is stability not changing managers every 5 mins because we will be going round & round circles trying to find the exit door.
Eventually it might be the wrong exit.  We have to give DS this summer and 4 months next season.

[Bentley Bullet]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

It is BB but throwing vast sums of personnel wealth is a choice not a pre requisite.

You or me if we had the funds might be prepared to lose it in the pursuit of glory. There are others who are only prepared to lose so much.

Unless that benefactor knocks on the door then what? We have to be thankful for owners who care and have made the club financially stable, debt free and therefore an attractive proposition for somebody to come in and buy the club.

I agree CR, but it absolutely IS about how much money you put into the team. Would Rovers have reached the Championship without Ryan, Bramall & Watson's investment?

But for JR it was not sustainable. He would have run out of money.
So he brought in Bramall & Watson.  They could see that the business model JR had was frought with long term danger.
JR left after a major disagreement.  The strategy has been to make the club self sustainable and that has been achieved but unfortunately without that extra million or 2 each season the football team has declined.
Having said that if GM hadn’t left in summer of 2019 who knows where we would be now.

For me it’s been more about the managers and recruitment than the finances. 
We should never have got relegated last season.  Wellens messed up and GmS wasn’t the man to turn our season round. Hence where we are right now.

What we do need is stability not changing managers every 5 mins because we will be going round & round circles trying to find the exit door.
Eventually it might be the wrong exit.  We have to give DS this summer and 4 months next season.

My point is it DOES matter how much money you have, and your post above confirms that.

I agree that pouring money into a team doesn't guarantee success, but on the other hand, not putting enough money in does guarantee failure.

[TommyC]

David Blunt has never taken a penny out of this club, nor has TB.

They have both contributed millions though into keeping this club going.

And this is how we value them?

Or, looked at from a different perspective, they took control of a respected upper League 1/bottom Championship club. That club had a well respected reputation in the game, a clear identity and a clear style of football, in a nice stadium with a small but vociferous fanbase. We were a club that punched above our weight but garnered respect across the game as to how we go about things.

And over time due to a combination of incompetence and mismanagement of footballing matters they have presided over a decline in the clubs fortunes to the extent that we now find ourselves languishing in the arse end of League 2 with a poor squad, scruffy stadium, no identity and widespread apathy amongst the fan base. The principles and identity of the old Doncaster Rovers have been sacrificed at the expense of financial sustainability and being run as a proper business.

All this crap about how grateful we should be. Owning a football club means having to put your hand in your pocket shocker! Who knew?! What sanctimonious twaddle. There was a DRFC before Terry Bramall, Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt and there'll be one after they're gone. Give me a plucky little club run by footballing people with a sense of identity, even if that is in non league, over this corporate non-entity we currently have.

Hypothetical scenario.....John Ryan says he's happy to take over the club but realistically he can only bankroll us to achieve and sustain the status of a top end Conference club. Is it just me who would snap his hand off?!

I'm sure advocating a drop into the National League is likely to produce overwhelming popular support.

I suggest you look up our attendances for the 98/99 season. It galvanised our support and rallied the town. It built a new generation fans (me included) who have been squandered. The drop into non-league was actually the step backwards we needed to reinvigorate the club, fresh energy, fresh buzz, new ownership, renewed optimism after decades of mismanagement. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

I'm not saying I want non league football. What I'm saying is that I would take that in exchange for us having a football club that rediscovered a vision, some optimism and some ambition.

[vaya]

David Blunt has never taken a penny out of this club, nor has TB.

They have both contributed millions though into keeping this club going.

And this is how we value them?

Or, looked at from a different perspective, they took control of a respected upper League 1/bottom Championship club. That club had a well respected reputation in the game, a clear identity and a clear style of football, in a nice stadium with a small but vociferous fanbase. We were a club that punched above our weight but garnered respect across the game as to how we go about things.

And over time due to a combination of incompetence and mismanagement of footballing matters they have presided over a decline in the clubs fortunes to the extent that we now find ourselves languishing in the arse end of League 2 with a poor squad, scruffy stadium, no identity and widespread apathy amongst the fan base. The principles and identity of the old Doncaster Rovers have been sacrificed at the expense of financial sustainability and being run as a proper business.

All this crap about how grateful we should be. Owning a football club means having to put your hand in your pocket shocker! Who knew?! What sanctimonious twaddle. There was a DRFC before Terry Bramall, Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt and there'll be one after they're gone. Give me a plucky little club run by footballing people with a sense of identity, even if that is in non league, over this corporate non-entity we currently have.

Hypothetical scenario.....John Ryan says he's happy to take over the club but realistically he can only bankroll us to achieve and sustain the status of a top end Conference club. Is it just me who would snap his hand off?!

I'm sure advocating a drop into the National League is likely to produce overwhelming popular support.

I suggest you look up our attendances for the 98/99 season. It galvanised our support and rallied the town. It built a new generation fans (me included) who have been squandered. The drop into non-league was actually the step backwards we needed to reinvigorate the club, fresh energy, fresh buzz, new ownership, renewed optimism after decades of mismanagement. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

I'm not saying I want non league football. What I'm saying is that I would take that in exchange for us having a football club that rediscovered a vision, some optimism and some ambition.

Fine. Start a grassroots campaign arguing that relegation (and not promotion back into the League) is worth it, and see how far you get.

[Campsall rover]

At the end of the day, the business of a football club is to produce a winning team.

It is BB but throwing vast sums of personnel wealth is a choice not a pre requisite.

You or me if we had the funds might be prepared to lose it in the pursuit of glory. There are others who are only prepared to lose so much.

Unless that benefactor knocks on the door then what? We have to be thankful for owners who care and have made the club financially stable, debt free and therefore an attractive proposition for somebody to come in and buy the club.

I agree CR, but it absolutely IS about how much money you put into the team. Would Rovers have reached the Championship without Ryan, Bramall & Watson's investment?

But for JR it was not sustainable. He would have run out of money.
So he brought in Bramall & Watson.  They could see that the business model JR had was frought with long term danger.
JR left after a major disagreement.  The strategy has been to make the club self sustainable and that has been achieved but unfortunately without that extra million or 2 each season the football team has declined.
Having said that if GM hadn’t left in summer of 2019 who knows where we would be now.

For me it’s been more about the managers and recruitment than the finances. 
We should never have got relegated last season.  Wellens messed up and GmS wasn’t the man to turn our season round. Hence where we are right now.

What we do need is stability not changing managers every 5 mins because we will be going round & round circles trying to find the exit door.
Eventually it might be the wrong exit.  We have to give DS this summer and 4 months next season.

My point is it DOES matter how much money you have, and your post above confirms that.

I agree that pouring money into a team doesn't guarantee success, but on the other hand, not putting enough money in does guarantee failure.

There is a fine line BB
It’s obviously both.
But look at Accrington. They should be in the National league.
But they have a manager who has been capable of mid table finishes for 5 seasons in League 1.  He has hardly had a cent to spend.
So if we had the right managers over the last 3 yrs we wouldn’t be in League 2
As Tyke said if we had won at Charlton we might have gone on and beaten Sunderland and the whole picture would be very different.
The rot set in with McCann leaving and then DM doing the same. Serious errors have been made after that.

Anyway I believe we have bottomed out and the only way is up. Come on DS & Copps prove me right.
The budget is not the issue. It’s good enough and will also be next season.

[silent majority]

I'm becoming a little exasperated with all the simplistic comments which have been posted so far. Even some of my responses have made things look simpler than what they are, and for that I apologise.

I'm trying to strike a balance between what I know, what I think I know and at the same time retain the confidence of people who keep me informed and answer my questions when I ask them.

What I do know is that the ownership model at DRFC is not as simple as everybody seems to make it out to be. We've had people come and go over the years that has complicated the picture and they've come in at different levels and at different costs. The VSC for example was a major player at one point because of our shareholding but that £110,000 we paid for shares has been whittled away to nothing these days. I doubt anybody even acknowledges it these days which is a pity but understandable. DB bought into the business when asked by TB and DW, how much that cost I don't remember the exact figure but I'll go back and check my records and see if I can find it. I did say it was millions but it was probably not that high. JR exited the business and left his loans and so did the Watson family.

I can't understand how anybody on this forum can level any criticism at GB though. He, more than anyone else, has been the driving force behind the commercial success of the club in recent years. He is a shareholder, but there are different types of shares in any business and I'm suggesting that they are a burden rather than the financial benefit people claim them to be. Much like the VSC shares they come at a cost. And its the increasing commercial viability of the Club Doncaster model that will be the driver going forward, the more that makes the bigger the budget we have, that's been the model for a number of years now and GB is responsible for that.

But all this guff about incentivising GB to run a sustainable business rather than providing funds for the playing budget is exactly that, just guff. Some people on this forum seem to think that the playing budget was cut in order to make the club sustainable which again is a nonsense, the playing budget is set by the Chair, not by GB. The Chair sets the playing budget and then GB, along with Richard the FD, need to provide a business plan that gets them to where they need to be.

Those who also hark back to the good old days of JR have very short memories. We weren't the successful club that everybody remembers without the funding of the Watson and Bramall families. 2006/07 was the time period when they joined JR and we were still at a crumbling Belle Vue at the time. 2013 was the time that JR offered them the 'deal of the century' as he called it and wanted them to sell their shareholding in the club for peanuts to a hedge fund who didn't have two pennies to rub together. People forget how we were being sold down the river for one man. That was 10 years ago!! And since then it was about the Watson family who regrettably stepped down but wrote off their £14m, and the Bramall family who have also contributed many millions. But yet we don't have a Chairman who can bang the drum!

[Copps is Magic]

I think there is a growing number of people completely despondent and bored with these tired old arguments about which owner did what, who gets enough credit and who gets too little. I appreciate what JR did for the club, as I appreciate what TB and the Watson family did and have done for the club.

We are concerned about the gradual decline since 18/19, seemingly corresponding to TB's rollback from investing substantial funds in the club.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Gary Coleman's doing a great job at Accrington,

Whatch'you talking 'bout Willis?