Gareth Southgate

[dickos1]

But won nothing. Maybe we should have had another 5, 10, 15 years for him to win nothing, it was time to move on.

Never won anything no, but there’s one tournament every two years and he’s been in charge for 4 of those, and got to two finals and a semi final.
You’ve got to compare with what went before him to discuss whether he was successful or not,
The side he took over was a shambles and he’s taken us from being knocked out in the first knockout stage to two finals.
He’s definitely been a success regardless of whether we’ve won anything

[Reg of the Rovers]

The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.

[andyst79]

The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.

Couldn't agree more

[Chris Black come back]

It is a real question as to how we have such a bare trophy cabinet in the last century compared to totally comparable nations such as Spain, Italy, France and Germany. Similar populations, similar success in European club football, similar wealth as nations. We are surely the worst performer in terms of trophies of that group. Something is culturally and systemically wrong, for which Southgate is only one tiny element. Over the decades we have just not been able to compete at the very, very highest level.

[TonySoprano]

The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.

Christ, the reason we got within a hairs breadth was due to southgate.

The longer time goes on, the more people will realise just how good he was for England.

[dickos1]

The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.

This is absolute nonsense on so many levels
One were a small nation in comparison to most others,
Comparing us to Germany is also daft theyve won 7 major tournaments we’ve won 1 ever. So yes of course they wouldn’t be happy with a couple of finals, you put semi finals to help prove your point but it’s actually 2 finals.
We’d never even reached a euros final ever so to suggest reaching a final twice isn’t a success is crazy!
We got to those finals because of Southgate, we might have lost them because of him, who knows if we’d won a penalty shootout with another manager , nobody knows.
But the fact is he’s got doing miles better in tournaments than we’ve ever done before and consistently

[dickos1]

It is a real question as to how we have such a bare trophy cabinet in the last century compared to totally comparable nations such as Spain, Italy, France and Germany. Similar populations, similar success in European club football, similar wealth as nations. We are surely the worst performer in terms of trophies of that group. Something is culturally and systemically wrong, for which Southgate is only one tiny element. Over the decades we have just not been able to compete at the very, very highest level.

But during his spell in charge he did out perform some of those teams. So he’s definitely has nothing to do with how poorly we’ve compared over decades and decades.
He’s the one manager that had us competing against them

[colincramb]

The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.

This is absolute nonsense on so many levels
One were a small nation in comparison to most others,
Comparing us to Germany is also daft theyve won 7 major tournaments we’ve won 1 ever. So yes of course they wouldn’t be happy with a couple of finals, you put semi finals to help prove your point but it’s actually 2 finals.
We’d never even reached a euros final ever so to suggest reaching a final twice isn’t a success is crazy!
We got to those finals because of Southgate, we might have lost them because of him, who knows if we’d won a penalty shootout with another manager , nobody knows.
But the fact is he’s got doing miles better in tournaments than we’ve ever done before and consistently

But isn’t the issue that we should be competing with similar size nations?

Either way you can’t argue with Southgate’s record. BUT he’s had extremely favorable draws in EVERY tournament he’s been in charge of, with the only exception being France in 2022. And guess what, we lost. In tournament football, I don’t recall us ever beating a nation where it was expected to be in the balance.

My final point is probably a bit controversial, but international football and the various teams I are nowhere near as strong as they was 20/30 years ago.

[EasyforDennis]

in 20 years time nobody will remember Southgate's time as England manager. He won nothing, the same as every other England manager other than Sir Alf Ramsay.

[Lesonthewest]

But won nothing. Maybe we should have had another 5, 10, 15 years for him to win nothing, it was time to move on.

Never won anything no, but there’s one tournament every two years and he’s been in charge for 4 of those, and got to two finals and a semi final.
You’ve got to compare with what went before him to discuss whether he was successful or not,
The side he took over was a shambles and he’s taken us from being knocked out in the first knockout stage to two finals.
He’s definitely been a success regardless of whether we’ve won anything

He did very well as England manager & improved the squad, he came close, but ultimately failed to win a competition, which would have been his remit otherwise what's the point. Good manager, but ultimately failed, same as those before him.

[dickos1]

The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.

This is absolute nonsense on so many levels
One were a small nation in comparison to most others,
Comparing us to Germany is also daft theyve won 7 major tournaments we’ve won 1 ever. So yes of course they wouldn’t be happy with a couple of finals, you put semi finals to help prove your point but it’s actually 2 finals.
We’d never even reached a euros final ever so to suggest reaching a final twice isn’t a success is crazy!
We got to those finals because of Southgate, we might have lost them because of him, who knows if we’d won a penalty shootout with another manager , nobody knows.
But the fact is he’s got doing miles better in tournaments than we’ve ever done before and consistently

But isn’t the issue that we should be competing with similar size nations?

Either way you can’t argue with Southgate’s record. BUT he’s had extremely favorable draws in EVERY tournament he’s been in charge of, with the only exception being France in 2022. And guess what, we lost. In tournament football, I don’t recall us ever beating a nation where it was expected to be in the balance.

My final point is probably a bit controversial, but international football and the various teams I are nowhere near as strong as they was 20/30 years ago.

Yes we should but he’s the only manager that’s been able to get us competing with them.
The old easy draw comment, when we play and beat the big nations it’s always because it’s the worst team they’ve ever had, we beat Germany in Euro 2020 and we beat Holland this year. Also beat Croatia in 2020 who got to the final of the previous World Cup.
The draw is irrelevent, nobody mentions the Portugal draw when they won the euros or the fact they never won a match to get to the final.

The fact is Southgate has taken us up quite a few levels, the next man has to do that again

[arkseyrover]

Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.

And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era  - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.

[Goole Rover]

Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.

And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era  - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.

What a load of rubbish arksey. Best manger we’ve had since Alf. You’re a bit like those who knock our Tom, he doesn’t look the part, he’s not stylish but if you analyse his performance he has been more successful than his predecessors.

[dickos1]

Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.

And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era  - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.

What absolute nonsense!!

[arkseyrover]

Goole - Truth and reality are in the trophy cabinet. Its bare.

[Pancho Regan]

And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era  - he was rubbish!

You wouldn't happen to have next week's Lottery numbers would you, Mystic Meg?

[Draytonian III]

Goole - Truth and reality are in the trophy cabinet. Its bare.

It’s been bare for nearly 60 years, Southgate got closer than anyone else, that is fact. If you try and shoehorn the “ best” players into the wrong positions it doesn’t work, that is fact.
This also is the case in every walk of life, sport,work,leisure, that is fact.
As the old saying goes “ horses for courses.”

[TonySoprano]

Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.

And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era  - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.

By calling southgate a failure means you clearly no absolutely nothing about football

[RoversInSpain]

Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.

And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era  - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.

What a load of rubbish arksey. Best manger we’ve had since Alf. You’re a bit like those who knock our Tom, he doesn’t look the part, he’s not stylish but if you analyse his performance he has been more successful than his predecessors.

Totally agree with GR and dickos
>By the way if you win your group in the group stages you often get a favourable draw, and Southgate’s team often topped these stages.
>He had good players bla bla, Well apparently Beckham, Gerard et al were the golden era, and Southgate got a lot more out of his players’ performances than that shambolic lot achieved.

> Southgate’s tactical bravery? Yep his fault 2 excellent players couldn’t hit a successful penalty.

>People won’t remember Southgate in 20 years, really, Venables is still remembered with great fondness, how many major international finals did he manage?

And on and on.

[BobG]

And more, how many finals did he reach - never mind win??

BobG