Trump

[SydneyRover]

''Former Ukrainian prosecutor says he spoke to Giuliani 'maybe 10 times'

Former Ukrainian prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko said in an interview that he spoke with Rudy Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, “maybe 10 times.”

Giuliani, the lawyer who thinks like a comedian, or in fact doesn't think

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/27/donald-trump-ukraine-live-news-latest-us-politics?page=with:block-5d8e57c08f08fbb0c171cdb9#block-5d8e57c08f08fbb0c171cdb9

[scawsby steve]

See, there you go again SS.

Claiming that everyone is as bad means that you don't separate anyone.

Tell me what Obama did that comes remotely close to the illegality and venality of Trump.

I was talking about the lack of democracy in our politics. Nothing to do with Obama.

[SydneyRover]

Same shit different country Steve, trying to say that other parties are as bad as the tories is lazy politics and I think deep down you know this. Maybe labour or the libdems have pissed you off in the past but this tory government is a nightmare, another league and there is no comparison.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.
Apologies if I misread you. I think we were talking about different things.

If you mean that the politicians don't represent your views, that's one thing. No political party fully represents my views at the moment. So I'll have to make a compromise at the next election. And that's the thing. You can vote for someone who most closely matches your views and if you don't like how they behave when they are elected, you can vote for someone else. Not perfect but it's how democracy works. And like Churchill said: democracy is the worst form of Govt ever devised by man. Except for all the other kinds.

I was meaning something different though. I was talking about politicians who deliberately undermine the processes that underpin democracy. That's a different kettle of fish altogether.

In Trump's case, we have a President who has clearly committed impeachable offences. But there's zero chance of him being ejected, because his party places not being a Democrat as a higher thing than not being a criminal.

That undermines the democratic processes. Especially given that the Republicans have an almost hard-wired Senate majority, because every State has two Senators regardless of population. And most of the tiny population States are Republican-supporting. So it's very, very difficult for the Democrats to get control if the Senate. And if the Republicans support their President whatever he does, that means a criminal like Trump is literally unimpeachable.

[scawsby steve]

Same shit different country Steve, trying to say that other parties are as bad as the tories is lazy politics and I think deep down you know this. Maybe labour or the libdems have pissed you off in the past but this tory government is a nightmare, another league and there is no comparison.

As I've said before Sydney, I've no political allegiancies. As a young man, a coal miner, I naturally was a socialist. That was when the Labour Party represented working class people, particularly in heavy industry in the North. It has now become the party of the London Metropolitan Elite. Just look at where the constituencies of all the Labour leaders are. Also, of course, I feel utterly betrayed by them over Brexit.

I would never consider voting Tory because of what they did to the mining industry. As for the Lib Dems, just think 2010; and think of that disgusting slogan on their T shirts recently, and that's enough said.

Is all that clear enough for you?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

Did you vote Labour when the leader was MP for Doncaster North? And the Shadow Chancellor was MP for Morley? And the Shadow Foreign Secretary was MP for Pontefract?

[scawsby steve]

SS.

Did you vote Labour when the leader was MP for Doncaster North? And the Shadow Chancellor was MP for Morley? And the Shadow Foreign Secretary was MP for Pontefract?

I've not voted for Labour since 1997, when, along with most people, I fell for the Blair con.

However, there have been one or two people in the Labour Party who I would have liked to see as leader, none more so than Andy Burnham. He comes over as a fair, sensible, straight talking guy. Only today, he was stressing the importance of respecting Leave voters.

He could be a leader in the future, once his mayorship is over.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So that comment about where Labour's leaders have their constituencies was pointless then?

[wilts rover]

As I've said before Sydney, I've no political allegiancies. As a young man, a coal miner, I naturally was a socialist. That was when the Labour Party represented working class people, particularly in heavy industry in the North. It has now become the party of the London Metropolitan Elite. Just look at where the constituencies of all the Labour leaders are.

Unlike of course someone like the Brexit Party. Who are not actually a political party at all (they have no members or manifesto) but a corporate fundraising vehicle for the millionaire, ex-city corporate banker and long time member of the Brussels EU elite, one Mr N Faragae.

Among whose backers are the multi-millionaire property developer Richard Tice, the billionaire farmer (highest personal recipient of EU farming grants in the UK) and entrepeneur James Dyson, whose patriotism saw him move his tax headquarters to Singapore, the millionaire insurance salesman and errr 'diamond miner' the source of which millions are in some dispute, the millionaire financial trader James Mellon who 'had a good day after Brexit'.

These are the non-metropolitian non-elites who represent the working class are they?

[scawsby steve]

So that comment about where Labour's leaders have their constituencies was pointless then?

Not really, seeing as it's what a lot of political journalists are saying.

Are you argumentative by nature, or is it just when you're on here?

[scawsby steve]

As I've said before Sydney, I've no political allegiancies. As a young man, a coal miner, I naturally was a socialist. That was when the Labour Party represented working class people, particularly in heavy industry in the North. It has now become the party of the London Metropolitan Elite. Just look at where the constituencies of all the Labour leaders are.

Unlike of course someone like the Brexit Party. Who are not actually a political party at all (they have no members or manifesto) but a corporate fundraising vehicle for the millionaire, ex-city corporate banker and long time member of the Brussels EU elite, one Mr N Faragae.

Among whose backers are the multi-millionaire property developer Richard Tice, the billionaire farmer (highest personal recipient of EU farming grants in the UK) and entrepeneur James Dyson, whose patriotism saw him move his tax headquarters to Singapore, the millionaire insurance salesman and errr 'diamond miner' the source of which millions are in some dispute, the millionaire financial trader James Mellon who 'had a good day after Brexit'.

These are the non-metropolitian non-elites who represent the working class are they?

We'll find out the answer to that last sentence when the GE comes around Wilts.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

The GE won't answer the question that Wilts sets.

Yes, the BP may well pick up a lot of working class votes. But that won't change the fact that they have zero interest in representing the interests of the working class.

Did you see their big announcement the other day on tax policy. If they end up with MPs, a price for providing support to a Govt in Parliament will be abolishing Inheritance Tax.

That's a £5.2bn/year tax cut for the richest few percent of the population. To be paid for either by higher taxes for the rest of us, or less money for public services.

They are weaponising your frustration. But not to help YOU. To help THEM.

Do you truly not see this?

[SydneyRover]

The US Guardian:

China being really close buddies with trump right at this moment, this is beyond mad, this is peak insanity.

''House intelligence committee chair Adam Schiff is less than impressed with Trump’s request that China also investigate Joe Biden... from Politico reporter Andrew Desiderio:

    Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio)

    Schiff emerges from Volker deposition, won’t comment since it hasn’t concluded yet, but says Trump’s Ukraine/China comments this morning were “repugnant” and “a fundamental breach of his oath of office.”
    October 3, 2019

I’m sure we’ll hear more from Schiff before the day is out''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/03/trump-news-today-live-impeachment-updates-ukraine-bernie-sanders-latest?page=with:block-5d9631bf8f084ab841732279#block-5d9631bf8f084ab841732279

Any trump supporters here want to jump in and defend your man?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep. This is beyond batshit.

https://youtu.be/rLdqhpsrbUE

This is a US President committing treason in front of the world's cameras. He's asking a foreign Govt, in public to interfere in a US presidential election.

How do the Republican Senators see that and have any excuse for exonerating him in the upcoming impeachment hearing?

More concerning, given that he's just publicly parted company with any sense of logic or understanding of the real world, I hope there's always someone between him and the nuclear football.

[SydneyRover]

And yet there's more, it gets bigger and angrier as the days go on, just read this latest bit on the mad orange from hell.

''As Trump's lies reach new heights, has the media reached a tipping point?

As the impeachment inquiry closes in, the media faces a challenge in finding new ways to hold the US president accountable''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/04/as-trumps-lies-reach-new-heights-have-the-media-reached-a-tipping-point

[BillyStubbsTears]

Don't know if the media has reached a tipping point, but probably more importantly, the public has.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1180211064648142851

The Republican party has shown itself to have no morality, no sense of outrage at criminal activity, no sense of shame at supporting this crook. But they do want to win. And as soon as Trump becomes a liability to them electorally, they will kill him.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Beyond belief that Trump is pulling out of North Syria and leaving Turkey a free hand to attack the Kurds.

[turnbull for england]

Who talks about themselves like this? https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181232249821388801?s=09

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jesus. He's turned into Ming The Merciless.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Come on you Trump supporters. Line up and give us your take on the Syrian Kurds. Vital, brave allies against IS. Who have now been thrown to the wolves by that disgusting apology for a human being.

Do you support his justification?
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182039818773155841

He's a monster. An absolute monster. And as thick as a bucket of monkey spunk.

[DonnyOsmond]

Come on you Trump supporters. Line up and give us your take on the Syrian Kurds. Vital, brave allies against IS. Who have now been thrown to the wolves by that disgusting apology for a human being.

Do you support his justification?
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182039818773155841

He's a monster. An absolute monster. And as thick as a bucket of monkey spunk.

Link doesn't work. Is it the WW2 comment?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182047709894774784?s=19

What a shambles of a man.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes that's the one.

Of course,the decision to give Erdogan the green light here is nothing to do with the Trump family's business interests in Turkey.

They go back a long way.
https://mobile.twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/193337302066540545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-35657601683516563530.ampproject.net%2F1910071803120%2Fframe.html

How can ANY of you not be disgusted by this monster?

[foxbat]

According to the Independent website the slime ball is also now supporting the yankee diplomats wife , who ran down the British lad and then used diplomatic immunity to f@ck back to Trumpland.

And there are people here who support him and think he will rescue us if we turn into a a Brexit sh@thole

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here Foxbat.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

He makes a joke about it. He's talking about a kid being killed by a f**king entitled idiot behind a steering wheel. And he turns it into a joke.

Every day I think he can't become more utterly repulsive. Every day he surprises me.

But f**k it hey? He sticks it to the libs, so he can't do anything wrong in some people's eyes.

[Sandy Lane]

Everyday here there is a fresh Hell.  Trump betraying allies, pulling out of treaties, Selling America out to anyone who will give him what he wants, reneging on promises, ignoring congressional oversight, and now with the invasion of Syria and the atrocities which are bound to come will surely be blood on his hands.

As for diplomatic immunity, how is it possible that there can be any immunity for vehicular manslaughter?  I certainly am not familiar with what immunity covers, but it seems like craziness.   But of course Trump will block any attempt to waive immunity and send the diplomats wife back to face justice because he himself is so lawless.

[DonnyOsmond]

He has no empathy.

[nightporter]

After watching US TV shows featuring Presidents I was under the impression they had a team of writers carefully crafting every word a President said.  NOPE.

[silent majority]

Everyday here there is a fresh Hell.  Trump betraying allies, pulling out of treaties, Selling America out to anyone who will give him what he wants, reneging on promises, ignoring congressional oversight, and now with the invasion of Syria and the atrocities which are bound to come will surely be blood on his hands.

As for diplomatic immunity, how is it possible that there can be any immunity for vehicular manslaughter?  I certainly am not familiar with what immunity covers, but it seems like craziness.   But of course Trump will block any attempt to waive immunity and send the diplomats wife back to face justice because he himself is so lawless.

Here you go Sandy, an explanation from the BBC;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07qgbqp

[SydneyRover]

I'm in a big hole Rudy give me hand will you: sure, I'll keep digging over here, it's sure is nice working with you Don.

''Two Republican donors who reportedly have ties to Rudy Giuliani's dealings in Ukraine have been arrested on campaign finance charges, a spokesman for the Manhattan US Attorney's office has revealed.

Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman are expected to appear in a federal court in Virginia later today after allegedly conspiring to "funnel foreign money to candidates for federal and state office" as well as making false statements to the Federal Election Commission and falsifying records - according to a federal court filing in New York.

Records show they used wire transfers from a corporate entity they controlled to make a $325,000 donation to the America First Action committee, a superPAC that supports Donald Trump, in 2018''

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/giuliani-trump-impeachment-ukraine-probe-republican-donors-lev-parnas-igor-fruman-a9150661.html

[Sandy Lane]

Everyday here there is a fresh Hell.  Trump betraying allies, pulling out of treaties, Selling America out to anyone who will give him what he wants, reneging on promises, ignoring congressional oversight, and now with the invasion of Syria and the atrocities which are bound to come will surely be blood on his hands.

As for diplomatic immunity, how is it possible that there can be any immunity for vehicular manslaughter?  I certainly am not familiar with what immunity covers, but it seems like craziness.   But of course Trump will block any attempt to waive immunity and send the diplomats wife back to face justice because he himself is so lawless.

Here you go Sandy, an explanation from the BBC;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07qgbqp

Cheers SM.  Interesting and informative podcast, but a very sad story.